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2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 3, 2012, 10:44 AM
Post #101 of 188
(3825 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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That's kind of odd because we had the same thing happen in our flight. Poor fellow held it all day long. The TI was teaching us how to fold socks the AF way. Heard, "Airman Reed reports, request permission to...." Then piss was running down his boot. The look on the TI's face was priceless. He actually almost broke out in laughter and then started screaming at the Airman to clean it up. Next thing you see is Airman Reed cleaning up his piss with his issued towels and what was in his bag of dirty uniforms that hang off the end of his bunk. Until the day of laundry detail, you could smell the piss every time you walked passed his bunk.
Check out Sonnax's website. Not sure if you have the 4L60E or 4L80E in your truck. You may find some information on what kind of improvements on issues that were made.
http://www.sonnax.com/sure-cure
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Nov 3, 2012, 10:56 AM)
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 3, 2012, 12:48 PM
Post #102 of 188
(3814 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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That's great! I'm sure there was a lot of snickering going on through the squad bay during that one. I had fun in boot camp. Of course, during boot camp I couldn't wait until it was over, but looking back you realize how much fun it really was.
I'll check out that site and see what I can find.
Brad stopped by with the lip seal I needed. He owns his own shop and offered to help with anything I needed. I've been very lucky during this rebuild.
Heading to my dad's house for the evening so the rebuild will continue tomorrow while watching football. Another couple of days and I should have it back together. That is as long as all goes well.
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Nov 3, 2012, 1:59 PM
Post #103 of 188
(3813 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Your Venture shouldn't need a shift kit, but TransGo sells one that could help your truck. I got one for mine too. Its designed to stop a lot of issues that resulted from the factory design, including the P1870 code. Might be worth looking into.
I still to this day find myself having to get in step when walking next to another person. Was really bad about it when I first got out of boot camp. Amazing what they do to your head in there. Spent my fair share of time in the front leaning rest.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 3, 2012, 8:05 PM
Post #104 of 188
(3810 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Good, already have another project lined up before this one ends. I'm always excited yet bummed when I finish a project.
Funny you should mention the getting in step thing. I too still do the same thing.
By the way, the manual says to check the ball capsule in the 2nd clutch housing to make sure it doesn't leak. How do you go about checking it? Could I just blow air in from the top (which would put downward pressure on the ball), and see if it seals without letting air through?
I'm calling it a night. Will be back at in the morning.
(This post was edited by MarineGrunt on Nov 3, 2012, 8:37 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 4, 2012, 11:21 AM
Post #105 of 188
(3802 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Turn the housing in order to seat the check ball. Use transmission fluid in order to check for leaks. Fill up the bottom of the housing and see if transmission fluid drips out of the check ball hole.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 4, 2012, 3:18 PM
Post #106 of 188
(3797 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Great! No leaks. Thanks DS.
I think I'm okay on this one and is probably a stupid question but thought I'd check. On the shaft of the driven sprocket support assembly he manual says to install the four lobed seal ring expander underneath the oil seal rings. When I took off the original oil seal rings there weren't any lobed seal rings underneath. They lobed seal rings did come with the kit in a little plastic baggie labeled "sub kit". I did a test run with the lobed seals underneath the plastic oil seal rings but the tabs didn't line up where they should. Here's me pictures to explain a little more.
It shows a diagram of how it says they should be installed. It shows it in the little circle in the upper diagram on the right hand side. (Numbers 612 and 613)Originally it didn't have the lobed seals installed.
The one on the left is the oil seal ring. On the right is the four lobed seal. Both came in the kit but the four lobed seal was in a package labeled "sub kit". The oil seal ring has little square tabs that are suppose to line up in the slot on the driven sprocket support assembly shaft.
In this picture the bottom oil seal ring is installed without the four lobed seal and fits and lines up as it should. The top one has the four lobed seal installed underneath as the manual states. I just don't see how this could possibly even come close to working and it doesn't look right. Maybe it's for the volvo 4t65e? There are extra parts for the volvo. You would think the manual would address both setups though.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 4, 2012, 5:14 PM
Post #107 of 188
(3796 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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This might explain it:
http://www.transtec.com/...ts/gm/IS_4T65E_8.pdf
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 4, 2012, 5:40 PM
Post #108 of 188
(3791 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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That explains it perfectly! In the "sub kit" it had two oil seal rings that were bigger that would've fit. It looks like mine had the updated mid year design change.
I'm cleaning the accumulator now. I had the accumulator pistons with the springs still attached sitting on the bench so I could tell them apart. My daughter picked one up and asked, "what's this" and sat it back down. Now, I'm not sure which one is which. Is the fatter firmer spring with orange paint the 2-3? The other one that isn't as firm has white paint on it.
I'll tell ya, if it isn't one thing it's another!
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 4, 2012, 5:55 PM
Post #109 of 188
(3790 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Just make sure she isn't around when you have the valve body apart...LOL
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 4, 2012, 6:06 PM
Post #110 of 188
(3788 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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You've got that right! Looks like I'll be sending her to Grandma and Grandpa's house! Just to make sure, in the picture, the one on the left is the fatter spring, correct?
Thanks for saving my @ss again!
(This post was edited by MarineGrunt on Nov 4, 2012, 6:07 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 4, 2012, 6:15 PM
Post #111 of 188
(3786 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Looks like that spring has been eating well.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 4, 2012, 6:47 PM
Post #112 of 188
(3784 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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I'm gonna have to freight you down a keg of beer when this is all said and done. I would've lost sleep over that one tonight.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 5, 2012, 9:36 AM
Post #113 of 188
(3770 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Does anyone know any tricks to get the spacer plate gaskets off of the space plate? I know it's not but it almost seems like it's glued on. Would letting it soak in gasket remover do any good or do I just have to scrape away?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 5, 2012, 11:06 AM
Post #114 of 188
(3769 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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I know you are being so careful already. I'm trying to envision this gasket, material type and why so stuck. Heat usually on things in general. Has some of it started and not complete or torn in 1/2 somehow leaving it troublesome. I seriously doubt use of a sealer was used ever on anything more than a pan gasket.
Whatever type of gasket remover you are using perhaps another would be better. If down to plain scraping just do not allow damage from the scraping tool to surface and any debris known blown away. No time now to mess up this show - T
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 5, 2012, 2:22 PM
Post #115 of 188
(3761 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Thanks Tom. I found out that some years of the 4t65e spacer plate were molded and do not have replaceable gaskets. Mine is the molded one. I was able to order one from the dealership for $22 and will be here tomorrow. I figured it would be $80. Heck, the gaskets for the non molded version $12. I paid more than $24 for 4 plastic thrust washers!
I did a dry fit of everything and know I have at least one bushing that needs replaced. It's the driven sprocket support bushing which holds the input housing assembly shaft. It wobbles around pretty good. That explains why the teeth on the input clutch housing were all eaten up.
From looking at everything, and seeing what was broke, this is what I suspect happened to the tranny.
That piece inside the pump broke which allowed one of the vanes to come loose. When the vane came loose it jammed up the pump which caused the end of the pump shaft that was in the torque converter to snap off. We all know what no fluid means. The first noticeable symptom was loss of overdrive. The 4th clutch hub and shaft splines were ground down smooth. The inside gears of the input sun gear, where the 4th clutch hub and shaft goes in, were also ground smooth. Once those went there went overdrive. The bushing on the driven sprocket support was worn, which caused the input clutch housing to wobble around. That's what ate up the teeth on the input clutch housing. That also caused the reverse drum to clank around which ate up the teeth on the 2nd clutch housing. With the input clutch housing wobbling around, so were the clutch input clutch plates, which caused the grooves in the input clutch piston. I heard from two people that the grooves on the input clutch piston wouldn't hurt anything but I didn't want to take the chance.
On the other side the, due to lack of fluid being pumped, the drive sprocket shaft ground away the thrust washer. Once the thrush washer was gone the drive sprocket shaft was rubbing on the pump stator and ground away about 1/8 of it. Luckily the drive sprocket shaft didn't have much wear and I'm still able to use it.
Well, I think I covered everything. Does that explanation sound feasible? I don't see how the pump just broke out of nowhere but it was definitely lack of fluid that caused all the wear. Unless, the end of the pump shaft broke off first, which I've heard is somewhat common, and then the inside part of the pump broke. Once I get everything back together I'll post some pictures of all the damage. Maybe it will help someone in the future on some of the parts to take a close look at. I overlooked a few of the worn gears. They were ground so smooth it looked like the part was suppose to be that way. I might've noticed it once I started putting everything back together just because I know that gears fit into gears. I wouldn't have bet on me catching it though!
So, I'm waiting on the spacer plate from the dealership. I asked the dealership about the driven sprocket support bushing and they said it's a non serviceable part. They wanted $307 for a replacement. I called Chuck and said he wasn't home but to call him in a couple hours. He said he'd give me a hand replacing the bushing or he probably has the whole assembly if we can't replace the bushing. I'm going to go ahead and have him check out the other bushings while I'm there.
What are your thoughts on replacing the solenoids? I can get all 4 for around $80. If not all 4, what about the 2 shift solenoids? How about the pressure switch assembly? In the update manual it says there is a known issue with some where the valves will stay stuck open. I guess you can check it with a voltmeter but didn't know if this is a part that is normally replaced during a rebuild.
Well, once I get the spacer plate and the driven sprocket support bushing taken care of it shouldn't be too much longer and we'll have it back together and ready for installation.
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Nov 5, 2012, 4:58 PM
Post #116 of 188
(3759 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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I'd at least change the shift solenoids A-B, the TCC lockup solenoid and the manifold pressure switch.
Your failure scenario is feasible, and you're being thorough on all the parts like you need to so I have a good feeling about this build being a success.
If you run into spacer plate gaskets that aren't the molded style, hot water is the trick. If you can sneak it past the wife the best way to get it off is to throw the plate and valve body as well into your dishwasher. It just falls off after that.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 6, 2012, 6:02 AM
Post #117 of 188
(3743 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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I would replace them all and flush the cooler. EPC solenoids are known for problems.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 6, 2012, 9:24 AM
Post #118 of 188
(3739 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Sounds good. New solenoids it is.
What about the pressure switch manifold assembly? I checked it with a multi meter, and pressed on the contact switches with a pencil eraser, and all 6 valves seem to be working correctly. I guess if for some reason it ends up needing replaced all I have to do is pull the side cover.
I flushed the cooler lines last week when I pulled the oil pan. I used 2 cans of Kooler Kleen and going to use a third before install. I pulled the tranny out in the driveway so I had more room in the garage. I figure another flush before install will make sure all condensation is out.
I didn't make it to Chuck's yesterday so going to go later on today after I vote. Being that Chicago runs the state my vote won't count for much anyways. If Chicago split off and became its own state IL would be a whole different story.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 6, 2012, 10:40 AM
Post #119 of 188
(3733 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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I'm going to go ahead and replace the pressure manifold assembly. The little O-rings seem somewhat brittle. I was going to remove the O-rings and clean everything out with some electrical contact cleaner and a couple of the O-rings were stuck and didn't want to pop out. I'm guessing it's from the tranny overheating. They aren't really regular O-rings or I'd just replace them. They are kind of "stair stepped". Napa can have the assembly in the morning. Looks like I'll be adding about another $180 to the rebuild. I'd have to add everything up but I'm probably around $500 or so and that's including the rebuild kit. Still way less than if I was to hire it all out. Plus, I've replaced anything and everything that is in question. I shouldn't have to go back in for anything. The added $200 is well worth the peace of mind knowing this tranny should outlast the rest of the van.
Here's the part I'm talking about.
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Nov 6, 2012, 6:58 PM
Post #120 of 188
(3730 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Yep, thats in the float test pile. If you had to pull the side cover off later, you'd have to drop the cradle out to do it. Not fun, better to do it now. They do wear out after all.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 6, 2012, 10:19 PM
Post #121 of 188
(3726 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Gotta love the float test! I just wish the outcome of the float test was a little cheaper.
Good point about the cradle. I didn't even think about that.
Didn't make it to see Chuck today for the driven sprocket support. Suppose to meet up with him sometime tomorrow. I pulled everything out of the valve body this evening and got it all cleaned up. Since the van is out in the driveway I need to get this thing done this weekend. Winter is just around the corner! Hopefully I don't run into anything else that needs replaced. I can't think of anything else that will though.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 7, 2012, 3:13 PM
Post #122 of 188
(3721 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Got all my solenoids and the pressure switch today. I also swung by the dealership and picked up my valve body spacer plate. I then went to Chuck's and he had another driven sprocket support assembly. The bushing on the original was worn pretty good. He wouldn't even let me pay him for it. He also did an air check and checked clearance on the input/3rd clutch and all is good. I'm going to go through the manual and make sure I do any other check that is needed.
I think I'm good to go for reassembly but going to double check everything.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 7, 2012, 7:01 PM
Post #123 of 188
(3716 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Well, I thought I was ready to put it all back together. When I left Chuck's he told me to really compare the driven sprocket support he gave me to the original. It sure looks the same side by side but one I lined the one on top of the other it's a little different. The bolt holes on the side don't quite line up. I'm going to give him a call in the morning and hopefully he has the right one. If not, I'll have to look elsewhere.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 7, 2012, 7:19 PM
Post #124 of 188
(3715 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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I been keeping an eye on this thread. Been busy lately.
Once you get the support figured out, you can air check everything from the support fluid passages with it installed too.
Have you figured out how to do the end play check?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 8, 2012, 12:11 PM
Post #125 of 188
(3710 views)
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Re: 2002 Venture 3.4 Front Wheel Drive Tranny Removal
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Thanks for the picture DS. I read a little bit about checking end play last week but haven't looked into it anymore yet but I will. I believe the manual shows how to check it.
Chuck doesn't have the correct driven sprocket support assembly. I measured the inside diameter of the driven sprocket support that Chuck gave me and the original and there is a little over 1/1000th of a difference. I'm not sure if that's enough to make a difference but the input housing shaft does have a little more play. Not much but it does a little. It's worn more on the top half of the bushing. The bottom half has the same measurement as the other. One of the oil lube scores is worn almost smooth on the top. Probably only about 1/8" of it but it's definitely worn. I looked on ebay and can get the whole assembly for around $45. This morning I called a big tranny shop in Peoria and they sold me the bushing needed. I also picked up a bushing for the final drive support. It had a little bit of wear also. The rest of the bushings look good and don't seem to show any wear. I'm have tempted to go ahead and replace all bushings but don't think I need to. Below are some pictures of the bushing wear.
Is this the tool I need to measure end play? I saw online where someone used the depth gauge on a caliper so can go that route too.
This is the good bushing in the driven sprocket support assembly from Chuck. Below this picture is the bushing in the original driven sprocket support. You can definitely tell it's worn. The tranny shop I went to said they don't see that wear a whole lot but do every now and then.
Good bushing.
Worn bushing.
(This post was edited by MarineGrunt on Nov 8, 2012, 12:18 PM)
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