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No movement when I shift into D or R
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randall283
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Nov 12, 2012, 9:21 AM
Post #1 of 26
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No movement when I shift into D or R
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Help! A couple of days ago I started my car, shifted into drive (D) and then did an immediate U-turn upon which pressing the accelerator caused no motion, i was dead in the water. Same with reverse gear (F). I waited a minute, I think i shifted into park (P) then into D and could move forward. Now this morning I started to use D and R to get out of sparking spot and again just the engine would rev and I had zero movement until I put it into park a few seconds then into D or R. I fear the worst. I just spent $1000 a week ago for new tires and a new radiator (old one had a hole in it with leakage). Car only has a blue book value of maybe $2000 given several dings in the body. I was hoping not to have to buy a new $15-20k car, sigh, baby this car along another year or two or three. But I can't see writing checks for a new transmission on this 8 year old car. Am I screwed? Should I start shopping for a new car?
My car has a remote car starter that I started using the past week, any chance a remote starter could mess with the car and cause something like this? I can try NOT using the remote start for a few days and see what happens. Both times this issue has happened the past few days have been right in the morning, cold (freezing, snow, here in northern MN), then I drive ten miles to a coffee shop and do not have the issue when I leave the coffee shop to come home (I do not use the remote starter at the coffee shop).
2004 Dodge Neon, 50,000 miles, basic model, automatic transmission.
(This post was edited by randall283 on Nov 12, 2012, 9:42 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 12, 2012, 10:11 AM
Post #2 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Radiator was replaced. Trans cooler lines should go thru radiator end tank and if left to drip it could be quite low on fluid. Could be a problem from being low or damage from being low too long?
T
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randall283
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Nov 12, 2012, 10:47 AM
Post #3 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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I went outside and checked the dipstick for the tran fluid and it has a line for cold and hot, engine is cold and the fluid (reddish) levels appears to be just a bit over the cold mark on the dipstick.
For what it is worth, I have been noticing the past few months that the gears (auto transmission) would seem to be a bit jerky, jump into gear when moving ahead from a stoplight or accelerating. I am guessing that is not a good sign. ;-/
Looking at new car prices, sigh. I guess I should take my car in tomorrow morning and have my mechanic take a look at it, if there is anything they really could check on it (what would they be able to check on my car?), tell me if i need a new car.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 12, 2012, 11:13 AM
Post #4 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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If you take it to a shop at least you'd know what the problem is. Just because you're having shifting issues doesn't always mean that you need a new transmission. A shop will be able to scan for codes in order to diagnose it properly. There's always a chance the tranny is toast. But, this is how my luck goes. I would go out and spend $20k on a new car. A week later I would see my old car driving down the road. I'd see my old car pull into a gas station so I'd pull over. "Hey, what was wrong with the car?" The guy would say, "I bought this car at auction for $300. They said it had a bad tranny but all it needed was a $15 solenoid!"
There's always that chance the tranny is toast. You just have to decide if it's worth it to you to have it diagnosed. If the car is worth $2k I would at least get it properly diagnosed first. You can then decide if it's worth it to you to get it fixed. Even if you put $1500 into it for a tranny. You're still + $500 so you wouldn't be out anything. If you don't get it fixed your car will be worth $250 in scrap. Then again, maybe you'll get lucky and it will be a few hundred dollar fix. I'm not sure how much it costs in your area but my local GM dealership charges $45 for a diagnosis. Although, it may be more to diagnose a tranny.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 12, 2012, 11:17 AM
Post #5 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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I don't want to think I'm sure about how to check trans fluid level on this so please consult owner's manual. Most will show a high and low mark by pints not quarts. Some may say "check running in neutral while warm or park" but always running, level ground. Most Chrysler products you checked in neutral for eons but might be a different set up or trans.
If this requires being running level should show lower than it would when off which would be irrelevant info.
Just a maybe by loss of fluid for any reason it just can't engage. If that's true it could also have hurt the trans badly. Low can be assorted symptoms including late to engage, requires higher RPM to no engagement at all. The opportunity to lose fluid could be when radiator failed - a maybe.
Don't overfull it either in any wild attempts as that's no good either.
Hey - there are no wonderful times for an expense if trans is toast. Only you can decide on spend on this car or trade as it is. Unlikely to recover cost if a trans job is needed vs the rock bottom value of a known bad one in trade.
We aren't here to be family/baby coming budget councilors but no repair costs for hopefully a few years might be cost effective. I don't trust used vehicle valuations much at all by any listed books out there. Perhaps a two/three year lease turn in has a close value known.
Try to be sure it really is a trans job lurking to help decide. If not somehow low it doesn't sound good. Professionals would likely check for total surprises like shifter isn't moving properly, metal parts or too much junk in fluid and frequently default that an overhaul would be the fix as intense details would require a total tear down and most wouldn't just do or try one silly seen thing for it just to fail again soon. Used if you are thinking is a total gamble,
T
T
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randall283
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Nov 12, 2012, 11:21 AM
Post #6 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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That raises an interesting point. Should I put $1500 or $2000 into my pos 2004 dodge neon, if that would get it running and good to go for a couple of years more? I feel a bit depressed on this because like I said I just put $1000 into it a week ago for new tires and a new radiator and two new belts. I really could care less about having a "new" car, I am not into the "looks", I just see a car as to get me from A to B, really. If I could put $3000 or hell $4000 into my dodge neon and know that in a year i would not need yet more expensive jobs like engine rebuilds and all, i would probably opt for the trans repair. Just starting to suddenly feel like a money pit, sigh. I will take it in tomorrow morning though and have the mechanic look at it (really good mechanics, I have always used them, Tires Plus, and right next to a coffee shop). Whatever I discover from the mechanics I will come back here and report the diagnosis-- yeah i hope their computer diagnostic stuff can figure it out.
There's always that chance the tranny is toast. You just have to decide if it's worth it to you to have it diagnosed. If the car is worth $2k I would at least get it properly diagnosed first. You can then decide if it's worth it to you to get it fixed. Even if you put $1500 into it for a tranny. You're still + $500 so you wouldn't be out anything. If you don't get it fixed your car will be worth $250 in scrap. Then again, maybe you'll get lucky and it will be a few hundred dollar fix. I'm not sure how much it costs in your area but my local GM dealership charges $45 for a diagnosis. Although, it may be more to diagnose a tranny.
(This post was edited by randall283 on Nov 12, 2012, 11:21 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 12, 2012, 11:39 AM
Post #7 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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It's near impossible to know that investing in repairs even major components will buy reliable, trouble free time. Face it. Cars are an expense. New ones have problems too except a warranty pays hopefully and gets done right. It does stink to spend $$ only to find more comes along.
Just my own take on my own vehicle purchases. I can deal with a ton of crap when just acquired (always used) as then I would be the beneficiary of known good stuff instead of doing a trans job right when I need/want to sell one or something as bad........If bad enough and didn't want to even fix myself would either salvage one or sell with listed known problems,
T
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 12, 2012, 2:11 PM
Post #8 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Like Tom said, even brand new vehicles can have issues. My wife's sister has a 2011 GMC Acadia. It has somewhere around 70,000 miles. Just this weekend it started overheating so she pulled over, called her husband, loaded it on a trailer and took it to a shop. Diagnosis was a cracked head. It had never overheated before so it wasn't negligence on their part.
Like you said, just weigh the odds. You just put $1000 into it and might have to put $1500 more. Let's say in a year or two you have to put another $1000 into it. That's still a heck of a lot less than $15000 to $20000. Before I make a decision like that I look the vehicle over real good. No matter the vehicle there are always going to be the regular parts it needs over time such as brakes, tires, battery, starter, alternator, shocks, etc. If you know the engine was taken care of I don't see why you wouldn't get another few years out of it but you never know. I had an old Chevy Cavalier I used as a work vehicle. It was my Dad's company car back in the day and we were able to purchase from them. I knew how anal my dad was when it came to taking care of stuff so I bought it. When I got it the car had around 80k on it. It was a 1997. When I sold it the car had almost 180k and the only thing I ever did to it were brakes and an alternator. You just never know when it comes to mechanical parts. I guess it really comes down to how much you know about the maintenance history of the car.
Be careful with the big chain mechanics. Tires Plus is mainly known for tires. Their name is big enough that they don't care about their name unlike a one owner shop. I'm not saying they are bad mechanics but I tend to have a little more trust in someone who knows what a bad name can do to his business. There are shops out their that work solely on transmissions and have the correct equipment to properly diagnose them. Tires Plus might have some basic scanners but I doubt they have the correct scanner and knowledge needed to properly diagnose a faulty transmission. Some of the mechanics on this site will be able to let you know better than I can though. I'm just a guy who enjoys working on his own vehicles and am by no means a professional mechanic. If fact, I'm far from it!
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randall283
User
Nov 12, 2012, 3:20 PM
Post #9 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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I don't want to think I'm sure about how to check trans fluid level on this so please consult owner's manual. Most will show a high and low mark by pints not quarts. Some may say "check running in neutral while warm or park" but always running, level ground. Most Chrysler products you checked in neutral for eons but might be a different set up or trans.
If this requires being running level should show lower than it would when off which would be irrelevant info.
Just a maybe by loss of fluid for any reason it just can't engage. If that's true it could also have hurt the trans badly.
T
I just started up the engine, ran it 15 minutes, level ground, and a friend of mine came over and we checked the trans fluid level-- DRY, did not even register on the dipstick! Yikes. I just had my car at the mechanic maybe five days ago, normally they would check fluid levels so either they were too busy and did not, or my trans seals or something sprang a leak since? We just put two quarts of transmission fluid in and I put a big piece of cardboard under my car to look later or tomorrow for a leak.
Maybe I will need to have the trans serviced, might just need a new seal or gasket or something hopefully? I hope I did not ruin my trans by having the trans fluid get so low. Cold weather (snowing today) just hit here the past few days when all this started, maybe the fluid is contracting in volume from that, making it worse all of a sudden? But part of this mystery is solved at least, and hopefully I can avoid having to buy a new car if all i need is a $200-$500 tune up of my automatic transmission with a new seal. I hope.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 12, 2012, 5:25 PM
Post #10 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Hopefully you put in ATF +4 fluid.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2012, 4:15 AM
Post #11 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Certainly correct fluid always. If all is well now and might be still try to find out why it was low. I just pointed out that the radiator job was a chance of fluid loss at a minimum some.
The mere capacities of things like automatic trans, cooling systems does allow for a hot and cold operating level - just basic expansion and contraction by temp.
You generally don't see that with engine oil and other capacities in automotive things. Yes - PS fluid will frequently show a hot/cold level. Designs have to allow a range.
Transmissions are just a bit more intolerant most of the time. Takes a lot of thought to design ranges as for some things just the angle the vehicle is parked at if involved matters,
T
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randall283
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Nov 13, 2012, 6:11 AM
Post #12 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Hopefully you put in ATF +4 fluid.
Nope. Friend drove a couple of blocks to convenience store where I bought a couple of quarts of MAG 1 Premium ATF. It was all they had. I wish he had driven me to an auto parts store but he was in a rush and my dipstick showed nothing, so. I hope that MAG 1 fluid will not ruin my trans? I googled but can not find out if that MAG 1 ATF is +4 or +?, the container says nothing about +4 or +3 or anything like that. It only says not to use it on GM vehicles after model year 2005 (My car is a Dodge 2004) or Ford vehicles after year 2006; it also says not to use it in vehicles that specify Ford Type F, Mercon V, Mercon SP, or GM Dexron VI fluid.
I only drive 10 miles a day typically, and in fact i do not even need to drive if it would ruin the trans. I plan to take my car soon to a place that works on trans and at least have them do some sort of tune up on the trans, fix any leaking seal, etc., I figure that might cost $300--$500 but wow that would be far cheaper than a new car.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2012, 8:53 AM
Post #13 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Couldn't say if slightly wrong ATF would kill the thing. I default to suggest just getting it all changed which a trans shop would have the equipment to do. Same time find any leak if not found bring up the history may help. You may have lucked out for now with this trans??
T
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randall283
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Nov 13, 2012, 9:14 AM
Post #14 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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I really appreciate all the posts and help and feedback here from you all, really, thank you so much. I am hoping i dodged a bullet in not having to buy a new car!
Just had Tires Plus (mechanic) look at it for free since they replaced the radiator two weeks ago, after which all this started up. Their mech noticed a small leak (all it takes I guess, as I have estimated a tablespoon or so a day judged by what leaked onto a large piece of cardboard i put under the car last night, and what was under the car this morning after i was at a coffee shop) around the gasket for the trans fluid pan. So I think I will leave it with them tomorrow and they will drop the pan out, replace the trans fluid filter, replace that gasket, and normally they said they replace about half the fluid because half of it is in the pan they drop out, but they can replace all the fluid so I will have them do that given the fact I goofed up and put the wrong ATF fluid in yesterday.
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randall283
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Nov 13, 2012, 9:20 AM
Post #15 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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...Like you said, just weigh the odds. You just put $1000 into it and might have to put $1500 more. Let's say in a year or two you have to put another $1000 into it. That's still a heck of a lot less than $15000 to $20000...
I agree. Even the owner of Tires Plus said figure $1000 a year for maintaining a used car, and I can live with that and even then some. Just so tired of all the bleeding this past month ($). But a new car would be $17,000+ and also lost money on lost interest on that money.
I hear you on using Tires Plus or not. I think I will call a professional trans shop I have heard recommended by both Tires Plus and an auto parts store guy this morning; just that it is way out in the middle of nowhere, whereas Tires Plus is next door to a Caribou Coffee with wifi, so the convenience factor certainly weighs in. Nothing stinks more than sitting around for hours and hours and hours at a car repair place doing nothing, watching the clock. Tires Plus wants $110 to replace the trans filter, gasket seal, and replace the trans fluid, might be worth a gamble as they just checked it for free and noticed leaking around the trans fluid pan gasket, right where I noticed it leaking, indirectly, from the piece of cardboard i put under my car last night. If that solved it, I would be so happy. If not then I would be out $110 for nothing as I would have to then take it to a trans repair shop, sigh. Difficult decision.
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randall283
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Nov 13, 2012, 9:22 AM
Post #16 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Anybody here have an opinion on whether to have a transmission "flushed"? There was a pamphlet about this at Tires Plus this morning, but earlier at the auto parts store (where I bought some ATF +4 fluid) the guy there was quite adamant about NEVER have a trans "flushed" as that can ruin the transmission; he said that a trans builds up grime and metal shavings and such in the gears, but for whatever reason those are good, and if you flush it all out that then the gears can get ruined. I don't understand that.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2012, 9:39 AM
Post #17 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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First of all, "flushed" is not really what they are doing. The transmission pumps the fluid out at it's own pace and the machine just replaces what comes out through the return line. This is a good thing to do for maintenance purposes only and on a regular schedule. Don't try to repair a problem this way as the detergent in the new fluid will likely make the problem much worse.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2012, 9:46 AM
Post #18 of 26
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Trans shops are a specialty for a ton of good reasons. You would get in person advice on the best approach, hopefully isolate and fix that leak at the same time. Flushing out does have some reported downfalls of either helping the situation if not tended to along the way or finishing off a trans that was in trouble anyway.
I have to suggest let the trans shop know as already said the history and situation and let them give you their best advice. Anything could be surprising but that seems like the most practical way to get the most out of this trans and car as a whole if ok you should have some decent more use and time with it,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2012, 10:31 AM
Post #20 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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No, I didn't say any of that.
I said that the word flushing is miss-used by many and the machine is just exchanging the fluid and not doing any harm.
The other thing I said is that fluid replacement should only be done for maintenance purposes on a tranny that doesn't already have mechanical issues (excluding leaks).
In other words, don't try to fix a mechanical problem by changing fluid, it's already too late for that.
Do replace fluid on a normal scheduled basis.
So, in your case I don't recommend any fluid change but of course, an "on site" specialist may see something I'm not aware of and recommend it so have it check by a specialist as you have already been advised.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Nov 13, 2012, 12:39 PM
Post #21 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Sorry for any confusion on my part if any. The situation as I understand it is that being low caused it not to engage in gear. Filling it worked - right? Where or why did it leak remains unknown and possible wrong fluid was used. Advice from the tire place and a corner convenience store is not what any is taking too seriously here TMK.
Saga seems the radiator replaced, soon it didn't shift right then not at all finally found low on fluid. Possible wrong (still not sure on that) fluid was used, worked but the first problem was being low. Now let a trans shop suggest with that scenario known what to do. If they find a silly reason for it leaking and know of fluid added those people could deal with it instead of non trans shop places or some urban lore from a convenience store.
Let the shop that does this work advise on this now not all these other sources including the web make a call when a real shop can check it out in person,
T
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randall283
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Nov 15, 2012, 9:17 AM
Post #22 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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Update: Took my car in to Tires Plus yesterday and had them put in a new filter and pan gasket for the transmission. But it ended up doing nothing for the drip. Still getting about a teaspoon of fluid dripping out just below the rear pan bolts. Made an appt to go in tomorrow again so they can check it again, maybe they over or under tightened the pan gasket bolts/screws or something. Or maybe the leak is coming from somewhere else but as I said the leak sure seems to be right below the rear pan bolts, actually just slightly (an inch or less) even more rear than the pan bolts but that could be my street just being slightly inclined so the drip falls just behind those bolts. Or the drip i supposed could be coming from somewhere else, but it is definitely trans fluid, and even the mech said they noticed the leakage from the gasket before they even changed the gasket.
Frustrating. If they can not fix it tomorrow, then I have to decide to pay for more expensive trans diagnosis and repair from a trans specialty shop, or i suppose i could just keep adding a quart as needed of fluid every month at a cost of maybe $70 a year. Not sure which is worse, this or a leaky roof, just frustrating and annoying, I just want it fixed!
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 15, 2012, 9:48 AM
Post #23 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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If it's the pan gasket it's hard to believe that a new gasket wouldn't have taken care of it. Are you sure it's not running down from somewhere else? If you clean off all of the old dirt, grime, and fluid you should be able to tell where it's coming from. It's possible they could of spilled a little when they filled it up. The pan is the lowest part of the transmission. That leak could be coming from a seal and running down to the pan.
If it were me, I would definitely get it fixed. A few more times, or possibly one more time, of running it low and you could be looking at a new transmission. You'll then be right back to where you were deciding if you want to put a tranny into it or buy a new car. The cheaper alternative, and the correct approach, would be to pay and get it fixed right. It will end up saving you a lot of money in the long wrong.
Take it to someone who is experienced in transmissions. They will be able to identify the leak in no time and explain your options and the cost. Plus, if you keep letting that fluid drip on the ground some crazy tree huggers may just slash your new tires.
Fix it right and be done with it. You'll sleep better at night.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Nov 15, 2012, 11:51 AM
Post #25 of 26
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Re: No movement when I shift into D or R
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I think that's a great approach. Might as well give Tires Plus a chance since they just did the pan gasket. Everyone makes mistakes so maybe it's possible they didn't get the gasket seated properly. You never know.
The bad thing about transmissions is that in order to get to some seals you have to pull the whole tranny. Let's say the torque converter seal is leaking. The seal itself costs less than $10 but the tranny has to come out. I can tell that you realize that maintenance is just part of owning a car because you take the proper approach to getting it fixed. Many people tend to forget about maintenance, put it off thinking they are saving a money, and then they end up having to junk the car and complain that it was a piece of junk. If you fail to get a problem fixed thinking it's going to save you money it ends up costing more in the long run. If you let one part go it tends to affect another part and then another and another and so on. Next thing you know your engine or tranny is toast.
If it ends up being a seal where the tranny needs to be pulled to get to it, be sure to ask them if anything else should be replaced while the tranny is out. I currently have my transmission out of my wife's old minivan and rebuilding it. I made sure I asked the mechanics on here what else I should change while it's out. There are some parts that are a lot easier to get to and some parts that the only way to get to them is with the tranny out. Such as the rear main seal. I'm also replacing the timing chain, timing chain cover, and oil pan gasket. There's not much labor involved in some of the removal of these parts since the tranny is already out. So, if you do end up needing the tranny pulled, ask the guys here what else you should have done at the same time.
Congrats on going about this the right way. You may never realize it but you'll be glad you did. You're saving yourself a lot of future grief. If you have always maintained your neon like you're doing now that car may just last you well over 200k. Cars are like the human body. The better we maintain them the longer they last.
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