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ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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rodnbren
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Jun 23, 2010, 2:55 PM
Post #1 of 24
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ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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hey there I have tried adding r134 to an 01 eclipse and that didnt work I pulled a vacuum on it and added r134 again and still not working. the pump clutch catches and works but the reading on the gauge goes around 120 psi. any thoughts to what it maybe? you can drive around 55 and it semi cools. the factory specs are 14- 15 ozs in the system. I would appreciate any help. thanks Rodney.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 23, 2010, 3:03 PM
Post #2 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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Seems like just a static pressure to me. If you are sure you have the correct charge or pure 134a by weight then now if compressor is engaged both look for fan(s) running and get the high side pressure. I think this uses the TXV system and it's probably stuck open if fans are working,
T
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Hammer Time
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Jun 23, 2010, 3:32 PM
Post #3 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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We really need to know the high pressure reading when this happens and solid confirmation that the compressor is actually engaged then.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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rodnbren
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Jun 23, 2010, 3:38 PM
Post #4 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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hey there thanks and I really appreciate the reply. All I have to measure is the standard fittings. I do not have the bigger one to measure the larger line(which I think that is the low side? if I am correct) both fans run and the clutch will kick in and out when you turn it off. if it is static pressure what can I do about it?
Thanks Rodney
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rodnbren
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Jun 23, 2010, 3:45 PM
Post #5 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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I know with the normal fittings the pressure gauge it reads like 125 with the compressor off and 120 with it on.
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Hammer Time
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Jun 23, 2010, 4:39 PM
Post #6 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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You need to just throw that toy gauge away. It really should be illegal to sell those things. You need to put a set of professional gauges on it or you just wasting your time and will likely end up doing damage to the system if you can't see the high pressure side.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 23, 2010, 4:52 PM)
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Sidom
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Jun 23, 2010, 8:36 PM
Post #7 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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HT is right.....With the problem you are having I would want to see high & low readings at idle & at 2500.....
The low side is way too high running....What's the high side doing???? Is it way too low indicating a possible bad compressor or is it pushing 450 where you need to shut it down.....NOW???? Before you get hurt.....
You really need to be able to see what the whole system is doing....Some problems left running could damage the system or worse.....hurt you.....
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 23, 2010, 11:16 PM
Post #8 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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You can buy real gauges for about $100 on up or some parts outlets rent them free for 100% deposits. Without seeing the difference it's going to be hard to figure out. If you are using a can kit with a gauge do throw those out as accuracy is horrible and many contain sealer and junk that will just ruin the system if you literally don't just luck out the first try.
In this section - look up to the ALL CAPS thread marked .........CHARGING PROCEDURES........... it's a wealth of information,
or click here>> http://autoforums.carjunky.com/..._A/C_SYSTEMS_P45460/
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jun 23, 2010, 11:20 PM)
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rodnbren
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Jun 25, 2010, 4:16 AM
Post #9 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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Hey there and thank you all for the advice and link. Since the system never really lost the 134 and the compressor is working would it be the orifice tube or accumaltor stopped up? Thanks Rodney
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Hammer Time
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Jun 25, 2010, 4:59 AM
Post #10 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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What part of "you need gauges" are you not hearing? We can't tell you anything without that info.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 25, 2010, 5:01 AM
Post #11 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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You don't even know the pressures yet so you can't know. You do need to charge the system to listed weight (weight cans + tap if using small cans or weigh in deducting from the 30 pound-er with an accurate scale) the EXACT amount. Then you can tell by performance and pressures what the likely problems are or where to look.
If you just aimlessly put in refrigerant - especially in a small capacity system a couple ounces are going to matter. A few or more over is enough to choke the system.
Take pressure readings with engine running, A/C on full blast, post the temp of air entering the grille, raise idle to 1,500 or so AND note temp out center vent inside cabin. Compressor must be known engaged, fan(s) running and if cycling note the pressure when it does so.
Anything short of that is a dangerous crap shoot.
There's no dipstick on how much refrigerant is in the system unless you've started from empty (vacuum) and know how much you've put in. When you don't know that all the above mentioned observations can tell you that performance is within parameters or not and what the likely problem area is.
#1 reason for poor performance is low charge. Too much wont cool worth beans and can do serious harm to the system.
The single gauge kits make it seem like you are just filling a tire with air pressure and it's nothing like that which is why those kits should be banned. There are vehicles that don't have high side ports - this isn't one of them. For those that don't you need even more temp sensing equipment and a strong knowledge of what temp should be where.
I don't think Mitsubishi uses many CCOT (clutch cycling orifice tube) type systems but rather the expansion valve way. If you see an accumulator on low side between firewall and compressor it is likely the CCOT way and if not the other.
Air if allowed into the system will throw all #s off and the moisture in it causes big problems,
T
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rodnbren
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Jun 25, 2010, 8:20 AM
Post #12 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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Hey there and ty T one of my good freinds has a vacuum pump that pulled it and yeah it was the small cans 12.5 ozs to be exzact. "suppose" to be for a first charge and help with any moisture if it had gotten in there I have unconnected anything to allow human error in moisture in the system it just started slowly not cooling. he has the guages I "mainly" used (professional) but correct we did not hook to the high side and measure it. and I have not been to his garage since I have added the 134 back in the system to get a high side reading. I admit I am not ASE certified more of a "shade tree mechanic" watching my dad do things and others I am not an einstein but I am not the dumbest either. (lol) and to top it I am more of a chevy fan. but its my oldest step son that is comming home from iraq soon so I wanted to have it fixed for him when he does. I have been researching about it some. But most systems I am used to seeing has the pump of course and then the accumalater (as i am used to calling it a dryer) in plain sight. the system still had pressure at first then I added some 134 it didnt work. so then thats when I thought well I need to pull a vacuum then just put completly new in it and added one can 12.5 ozs and that didnt even start coooling it down when putting in the 14-15 ozs it calls for watching the gauges the (professional ones) without it not being on the high side just low it never went down to where it was suppose too. I really greatly do appreciate all advice I am getting and hopefully today or monday I can get a reading from the high side to tell you more. Thanks again a bunch Rodney
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 25, 2010, 9:13 AM
Post #13 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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Rodney - What the heck is the .5 in the cans you are using? NG! Only use pure refrigerant and oil when indicated. This can be done without allowing air in at all if you pay attention to you hoses (gauge set) and purge lines. The vacuum should be 29.92 at sea level (adjustments for altitude allowed if applicable) and by the nature of a vacuum there won't be any significant air or moisture that's in it in the system. Wild trace amounts are absorbed by the desiccant in the cars drier to a point.
You had the gauges you just said so you could have had a high pressure reading with compressor engaged which is tons of info right now.
Close doesn't cut it. This isn't 'hand grenades' or the game of 'horseshoes' - it's wants right on. Some (not many) 134a vehicles still have a sight glass once common before that refrigerant which was great at taking out some guesswork. That's just seeing what pressures would tell you anyway really.
You can still use 12 oz cans with a long can tap made to fit the gauges where "close" counts. You lose some of the total weight in purging lines but you should be taking tare weights and deducting as it's dispersed.
You don't have to be ASE certified to do this but do have to pay strict attention all along the way taking in all observations. It's not quick to really understand just what's going on or familiarize yourself with the equipment (gauges) that can vary some brand to brand.
I'm concerned about what the .5 extra whatever has been repeatedly installed. Never saw one list that on the container but if pure so be it. If not pure it's snake oil,
T
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rodnbren
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Jun 25, 2010, 9:55 AM
Post #14 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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 Part Number: 350 Weight: 1.03 lbs Size: 12.5 oz. Quantity: 1 pc.
Features & BenefitsR-134a 1st charge with ice 32. Instantly lubricates new compressors and absorbs moisture. (Not a replacement for compressor manufacturer's oil requirements). Contains performance additives. Designed for use when replacing the A/C system compressor. Start recharging the A/C system with Certified A/C PRO 1st CHARGE with ICE 32(R) to protect the compressor on start-up. Contains ICE 32(R) lubricant for improved cooling and extended compressor life Lubricates new compressors and protect against oil starvation at start-up Compatible with all weights of PAG and Ester lubricants 12.5 oz. total fill (11 oz. R-134a, 1 oz. ICE 32(R) lubricant, .5 oz. drying agent)
Thanks T for the help. here is the product I use and is probably mostly snake oil. also I will get the high side pressure and let you know. although it may not look like it I try my best to do the right thing when I do something but I didnt have a ready available 30 pound tank of r 134a so I did the next best thing which is not always proper to do. and plainly when you research or ask your local parts store they dont know their butt from a hole in the ground. lol Thanks Rodney
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 25, 2010, 10:25 AM
Post #15 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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It's not funny but don't expect product labeling or the parts places to know Jack about A/C! They might but that's not their primary job - selling products is the goal ------ if it or a part works - great otherwise most don't give a shoot.
Bet you notice it doesn't say what exact chemical name of the junk is. Trouble is that it might not hurt but might be the problem now. Hard to say 'cause they don't spell it out.
I think this system uses the throttling expansion valve and they don't want junk nor do any messing with them. If this stuff turns to a dry paint when not in its container AND it again exposed - arggh! Hope not,
T
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rodnbren
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Jun 26, 2010, 10:41 AM
Post #16 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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Well I went to my dads yesterday for another reason and found that he had a professional set of gauges but no hook ups so I order them yesterday. So I will probably get them towards the end of next week so I can give you a more accurate reading by the end of next week. and thanks again
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Hammer Time
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Jun 26, 2010, 4:04 PM
Post #17 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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No hookup I've never seen a set of 134 gauges without couploers. Are yiy sure they aren't r12 gauges?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 26, 2010, 11:39 PM
Post #18 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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If you do find you have the older R-12 + 22 gauges they are still fine. If nice equipment you can get adaptor ends and use them for both. My best set pre-date electricity and is still the best stuff and I use the set shown below if it shows. Still I have a few sets as I can't waste time hunting down just a hose when and if one fails,
Not the exact pic but they are out there with more than that - short $ to keep a good old set,
T
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rodnbren
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Jun 27, 2010, 5:15 AM
Post #19 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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hey there and yes they are the r-12, 22 gauges. I have already order the fittings but they do not have the shut off valves like yours. this is something I dont do that often as you can tell. so I dont have any of the professional tools for this nature and being laid off well cut the budget even tighter lol .... but like I also have said in previous post I pretty much try to gain knowledge in all feilds from working on computers in the home building furniture, buildings, working as a machinist, working on cars from the motor and body work. I am always wanting to be learn more so I can do it and know its done right when I have a problem with something. Like I said thank you all for the help. now I am just waiting for my fittings to tell a reading.
Thanks,
Rodney
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 27, 2010, 5:27 AM
Post #20 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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They make a few different types. Some just the tiny end which works fine (I don't have that type) but probably work like an air chuck to lock any outflow if not attached. Trouble with that is you need to get air or other refrigerant out so if that type just loosen where they connect to bleed out the lines. Just a spit thru them - don't go nuts as you don't need to. That is considered insignificant loss and worth it not to contaminate gases or allow even the smidge of possible air.
If only taking pressure readings you aren't pushing anything into system so purging wouldn't be needed unless you switched to charge gas into system. As said - I have a few sets and each has its own peculiarities. You just have to get used to what you are using,
T
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Sidom
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Jun 27, 2010, 8:47 AM
Post #21 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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Just a heads up. The threads for the manifold & hoses of R134a are different than R-12, and this was by design.
Since then some companies did come out with adaptors so one set would do both (uhhh, guys....was that the idea for the different threads, to limit cross contamination?????....lmao)
Just be sure the place you ordered your stuff from knows it's an R-12 manifold or it probably isn't going to fit.....
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rodnbren
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Jun 30, 2010, 4:18 PM
Post #22 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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well guys I got my connectors and the readings is 85 on the high side and the low side is 82 with this reading what can you tell me? with the compressor kicking in. what is my solution now if you can help me out please? Thanks Rodney
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Hammer Time
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Jun 30, 2010, 4:23 PM
Post #23 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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If you are absolutely sure that the compressor is running, then your compressor is fried. It is pumping nothing at all. Those are just static pressures. Make sure the compressor really is engaging.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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rodnbren
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Jun 30, 2010, 4:49 PM
Post #24 of 24
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Re: ac problems on an 01 eclipse
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well thats not good of news the clutch is engageing and dis-engaging when turning off and on. so i guess I will look for a a/c compressor then thanks rodney
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