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A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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rockn64
New User
Aug 15, 2010, 6:27 AM
Post #1 of 12
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A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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Year of vehicle: 2001
Make of vehicle: Jeep
Model of vehicle Cherokee
Engine size 4.0
Mileage/Kilometers 150k MOL
A/C 1.2 Lbs Max
I had to replace the compressor hose set because the old one had a pin hole in it. I also replaced the condenser / evaporator. The system was vacuumed and shows no signs of leaks. I don't have a gauge set and am using a guaged refill can purchased at hellmart, following the directions on the can, but the compressor (formerly working) will not enguage. I have filled the low pressure side upto 1.5 PSI, in the green range on the can. I am afraid to go higher than that and cause damage to my A/C system.
Having read some recent posts here I went ahead and checked the 20A fuse in the main fuse block located under the hood but have not checked the relay because I'm not entirely sure how to check that.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 15, 2010, 7:17 AM
Post #2 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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If you read other posts here then you already know that we have no use for what some call "death kits" sold in these parts stores. You simply cannot know what is going on inside an A/C system without knowing the exact high and low pressures at all times.
I also saw no mention of vacuuming the system which will lead to serious problems later on. Recharging these systems is simply not a DIY task. It's a much more complex issue than the Wally Worlds would have you believe.
Here is a thread that you really should read before attempting any of this.
RECHARGING PROCEDURES
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 15, 2010, 7:18 AM)
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rockn64
New User
Aug 15, 2010, 8:39 AM
Post #3 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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Hello Hammer Time,
I'm not sure what you are referring to "Death Kits". I removed the old hoses and evaporator and replaced them with parts from the local auto parts store. The can of freon (134A) maybe a death kit trap from hell but i have sucessfully recharged a few systems with theese cans before. As a mechanic (?) i'm sure you are aware that people use these on a regular basis or they would not sell them and at that...... for the average person, like myself, trying to save $500.00 + (allbeitat the risk of killing my A/C system) can you not offer any constructive ideas to help a poor guy out?
please re-read my 1st post as the second or third line indicates the status of vaccume.
Thank You
Edit-----
The first thing I read was the charging Procedure, very nice btw! I did not read where you recharge a vacuumed system using a single guage can. so I'm guessing that your answer in short should've been "you cant charge an A/C system with a single guage can because you cant flood the high side of the A/C system"
(This post was edited by rockn64 on Aug 15, 2010, 9:12 AM)
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rockn64
New User
Aug 15, 2010, 10:04 AM
Post #5 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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So your saying that it cannot be done correctly or are you saying it cant be done at all.
It sure sounds to me like your saying that you wont help me fix my A/C because of some attitude you have about me trying to fix my A/C on the cheep.
As for your swamp land i'll take it! incase you have'nt heard swamp land is regularly filled in and condominium's built there as little cuba expands.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Aug 15, 2010, 12:14 PM
Post #7 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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Mixed info here. Was or was this not filled from a vacuum? If you don't know than this isn't for you an you can plain Google "Death Kits" and will not like what you find.
You can't just blast in a charge of junk (read those cans - junk in them) and expect some color gauge to say it's right.
You can't afford $500 bucks then you won't like what's waiting. Using "Fix a Flat" probably just cost you 2 grand!
Sorry the chain stores sell them without SEVERE warning lablels on them.
A/C is not good diy play area. Near want it removed from this site,
T
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Aug 15, 2010, 2:03 PM
Post #8 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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Sounds like you've tackled a big job and are at the end of it. There is just a couple of small problems here.
1st is the static pressures.
In order for a system to turn on there has to be a minimum amount of R134 in it or there is a safety feature that won't let compressor turn on to keep the compressor from being damaged. This is where the 1st problem comes in.... You need to be able to tell us what the static (system off) pressure is. That's the problem, the readings you are posting from your kit aren't accurate to a/c diagnostic. 1.5 lbs psi isn't right, there should be some where between 30 & 50lbs psi, minimum, no offense but being in the "green" doesn't cut it.
And that leads into the 2nd problem. A/C techs really dislike those kits( can you tell??? lmao). Not because it enables DIYers to work on their own systems but because with all the other stuff in them, they can actually damage an a/c system and more importantly they can & do damage expensive a/c equipment. To the point where they actually sell identifiers to tell if there is stop leak or other contaminates in a system before a tech attempts to recover it...So don't take the responses the wrong way, understand where they are coming from. If you were using a manifold set with straight refrigerant all this would be a non issue...
Ok so I guess this is where we are at. You've got your system back together, put in under a vacuum, it passed a leak test and you are attempting to charge the system. You are using a product that can possibly damage your whole system but you are willing to take the risk.
The 1st step would be to verify how much R134 you have in the system. Your system holds 1.25 lbs, roughly 20 ozs. If you have got most of a can in there the system should at least start to cycle. If not you are going to have to check it out electrically. I would start at the a/c relay. 2 pins should have 12v on them with the key on. #87 on the relay feeds power to the clutch. If you jump that with 12 volts and the comp runs then that part is good. #85 & 86 is the control side of the relay. One is power the other is the side the PCM grounds to turn the system on. If the PCM isn't grounding the relay then that is the problem that needs to be traced down......
As far as jumping the comp. If for some reason there is too little refrigerant in there, you could do serious damage running the compressor. While we're on this point I may have missed it but did you add any oil to the system since you have changed parts? I'm not sure what all has been changed or if the system was flushed but from what I have seen it looks like you want to add at least 3ozs of oil.... I believe that system takes PAG 46 but you would want to make sure before adding any....
(This post was edited by Sidom on Aug 15, 2010, 2:05 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 16, 2010, 1:18 AM
Post #9 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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Did that show?
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rockn64
New User
Aug 16, 2010, 7:26 AM
Post #10 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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Good Morning Sidom & Tom,
all righty then! I will change my approach to finishing up this job.
#1 I have no idea how much oil is in the system but am making an assumption (and yes I know what that means lol) that it is low because of the punchured hose, the minimal discharge from the bad hose set when I removed it and the amount I shook out of the old evaporater (including the weight differance between the old evaporater and the new one). At any rate. While I did not think that I was using a "death kit" with dye and / or leak sealers but alas after reading the contents of the can it says that it contains "system safe leak sealer" 
Also.... the mechanic that originally diagnosed the leak (@ $865.00) used dye to find the leak.  So, what am I looking at here? Flush the system myself with HFCF-141b (Dura 141), if that will remove all the bad stuff and the old oil. Refill the oil with sp-20 PGA to 240cc, both indicated on the Sanden 4826 compressor.
vacuume the system down. The local Jiffy Lube did that as part of their free A/C checkup.
Buy a set of guages and a r-134a tank (without a A/C cetrification?) and charge the system to 1.25 Lbs (30 to 50 Psi) risking my A/C system.
OR #2 byte the bullet and have a mechanic finish it for me.... hmmmmm what to do. what to do.
(This post was edited by rockn64 on Aug 16, 2010, 7:28 AM)
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Aug 16, 2010, 8:44 PM
Post #11 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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Well it sounds like you are trying to do it right. I do prefer the Dura flushes over the oil based ones. It doesn't leave a residue but you better seal it good or it'll be gone.
A ballpark rule of thumb for adding oil is to add 2ozs for each component replaced or flushed. I can't access my database but some will list amounts more precisely. Leaks are a little tougher. Small low side leaks you usually don't add any. High side leaks you really have to try to gauge how big & fast it was to figure how much oil to add. Adding dye isn't bad for a system but then again, you don't want to add too much. The real killer is stop leak, you never want to add that for any reason. So if you are using cans, 1 can of dye is good and then straight refrigerant for the rest, plus it's cheaper.
Any set of manifold gauges will work. You don't want to lay out 3 or 4 hundred on set if you aren't going to be using them much, the cheapys work ok for DIYers. The main goal is to have high & low side readings. Basically for diag purposes we really need to know static (system off) pressures. Another rule of thumb (I'm running out of thumbs) the static pressure usually should be close to ambient temp. Low & high side at idle and at high rpm no more than 2 grand. It would also be good to post vent temps and the temp at the condenser..
It sounds like you posted the total system capacity, 240cc. Unless you changed everything & flushed what wasn't changed, you shouldn't add the much. Too much oil can cause cooling problems as well.
If all you did was change an evap & had a leak I would add 3ozs, you should really change out the accumulator & orifice tube as well... Looking at the orifice tube can tell you what is going on in the system. You want to see a clean slightly moist tube. If you change those, add an extra 2oz.
Once you get most of the 1st can in, the system should start to cycle. If not then it will need to be checked out electrically....Check the basics 1st, fuses, connecters hooked up to the switches & comp, no bend pins, stuff like that.......
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Aug 16, 2010, 9:21 PM
Post #12 of 12
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Re: A/C repaired - compressor won't cycle
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I can see it Tom............. Fitting name........lmao....  
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