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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 7:00 PM
Post #1 of 51
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Cut out and died :(
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1997 plymoth voyager
IT'S A 3 LITER V-6
231,000 miles
So the van has been running/driving great. Yesterday I had the oil changed and air filter changed. The only thing they said was it needed a new pcv valve mine had cracks in it.
Today driving home from work it just cut out. The engine turned but no start. All the plugs,cap,rotor,wires were replaced last Aug.
I pulled the hose for the fuel going into the rail (I think it's called) and turned the key. There was some gas in the hose after I turned the key but it didn't spray out like it was under pressure? After I re connected it I sprayed a little starting fluid to see what would happen nothing the same.
I pulled a plug/wire and put it to ground to check for spark nothing? The plug looked fine just a little white on it.
Please help!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 8, 2012, 7:31 PM
Post #2 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 7:48 PM
Post #3 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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Thanks for the quick reply but I don't have any spark tester, noid light or fuel pressure gauge. That's why I just did what I thought of. I have work at 8am any thoughts to help me out
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 8, 2012, 7:57 PM
Post #4 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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Can't give you any suggestions until you test for spark, injector activity, and fuel pressure as stated in HT's post. Don't know what to tell you until you can tell us what is missing.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:00 PM
Post #5 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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So what I did so far doesn't help at all?
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Discretesignals
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:03 PM
Post #6 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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Does the check engine light come on when you turn the key on?
If it does, turn the ignition off. Then turn it on-off-on-off-on within 5 seconds.. Then count the flashes of the check engine light.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 8, 2012, 8:06 PM)
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:03 PM
Post #7 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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shouldn't the fuel spray out from the hose like it's under pressure when the key is turned?
Shouldn't I see a spark when the plug/wire is held to ground and the key is turned?
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:06 PM
Post #8 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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The check engine light has been on for 5 years I had them do the code check thing and they said it was a vacuum line
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:09 PM
Post #9 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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By the way you helped me with this same van last August 
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:09 PM
Post #10 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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Yes it should spray out.
The spark might not be able to jump out of the boot to ground. You need to stick something like a spark tester in the boot and attach that to ground.
You should see spark while your cranking the engine.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:11 PM
Post #11 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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Check for codes again using the post above. Write down what you get.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:13 PM
Post #12 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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I had them check at auto zone again when I changed all the belts last month. I had it towed home so no way to check for codes tonight :(
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:20 PM
Post #13 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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ok.. I guess you didn't understand about Rereading the post above. Your vehicle does flash code diagnostics, so you don't need a code reader to see what codes are stored.
Using The Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)
1. Cycle the ignition key On - Off - On - Off - On within 5 seconds.
2. Count the number of times the MIL (check engine lamp) on the instrument panel flashes on and off. The number of flashes represents the trouble code. There is a slight pause between the flashes representing the first and second digits of the code. Longer pauses separate individual two digit trouble codes.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 8, 2012, 8:20 PM)
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nickwarner
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:30 PM
Post #14 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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The fact that fuel will spray with the line off means about nothing. You don't have a pressure reading and this one needs a special adapter to do that anyhow. Take off your distributor cap and watch the rotor while someone cranks your engine. If it doesn't turn you snapped the timing belt, probably because nobody bothers to replace them. On the upside if it is the belt you have a frewheeling engine with pretty easy timing procedures and the kit isn't too steep in price or that hard to do. Basic hand tools will handle the job. If you do this and the kit doesn't include a water pump get one anyway and do it at the same time or you will regret it later.
If the rotor does turn, you need to be following the easy instructions DS has laid out for you.
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:31 PM
Post #15 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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not sure if I did this right?
so when it started flashing I counted 3,5,4,7,2,3,1,3 then 5 until it stopped flashing
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:39 PM
Post #16 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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no I don't think the timing belt was ever changed. The fuel I did because when it died a couple of years ago nothing was coming out of the hose and I changed the fuel pump and all was good. Then when it died last Aug. I pulled that hose and it sprayed out under pressure. So when It didn't spray out today I thought it might be fuel until I tried the starting fluid. If it was fuel when I sprayed it should have done something right?
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nickwarner
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:43 PM
Post #17 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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If the timing belt hasn't been changed you need it anyway and should plan to do it. That doesn't mean just the belt. The idlers, tensioner, water pump and all. Everything that touches it. They sell it as a kit. Did you take off the cap and watch to see if the rotor turned while cranking yet?
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:45 PM
Post #18 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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going out to do it now
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:52 PM
Post #19 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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Usually you get a prime even if the belt snapped, but still good to make sure the rotor does turn. Not sure about your codes. They are two digit codes.
For example:
*=check engine light
** short pause *** long pause *** short pause **** = 23 and 34
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 8:56 PM
Post #20 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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ok so I off the distributor cap and the rotor didn't move while someone cranked the engine.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 8, 2012, 9:00 PM
Post #21 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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Your the man Nick. 
Now you can tell him the bad news. Petet, you might want to be sitting down.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 8, 2012, 9:02 PM)
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 9:03 PM
Post #22 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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whats the bad news? Possibility of a bent valve?
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Aug 8, 2012, 9:08 PM
Post #23 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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If the rotor isn't turning. It usually mean the timing belt gave out. You might be able to remove the oil cap and look at the camshaft to see if it turns when you crank the engine to rule out a sheared drive gear on the distributor. If the cam doesn't turn, you have to take the front cover off and do some belt work. The problem is yes, you'll have bent valves if the belt breaks.
I feel like a doctor that told you you have herpes or something
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Aug 8, 2012, 9:13 PM)
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 9:15 PM
Post #24 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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So if I remove the oil cap and look at the camshaft to see if it turns if it don't turn the belt is broke?
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petet1234
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Aug 8, 2012, 9:17 PM
Post #25 of 51
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Re: Cut out and died :(
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"I feel like a doctor that told you you have herpes or something"
I'm very thank full you and the others are here to help me even if it's bad THANK YOU!
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