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dr.donut
User
Nov 15, 2019, 10:09 AM
Post #1 of 26
(2878 views)
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2004 civic no spark ,
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I have a 1.7 and I checked two cylinders for spark with a tester and got nothing , I notice there's a black wire , a black/white and one designated for each coil , Wondering the next step to find the problem ,, thanks ,
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 15, 2019, 10:33 AM
Post #2 of 26
(2874 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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For lack of specifics can you move one that works to those plug-ins and see if they work? I take it you are testing for the high voltage spark that would save some "swaptronics" and blame two at once as some fluke,
Tom
(Send Donuts - it's been slow here without you!)
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dr.donut
User
Nov 15, 2019, 12:18 PM
Post #3 of 26
(2859 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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I pulled the #4 coil tower and hooked the tester to it , did the same for #2 and got nothing , Are you saying switch coils and try again ? I was also referring to the 3 wires (plug ins ) leading to each coil tower , figured one could be checked for a signal . I could send people here from other auto forums to liven things up but it would take away from my on line entertainment .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 15, 2019, 12:55 PM
Post #4 of 26
(2850 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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It should be throwing a code that might help? Chances are both fire at the same time from same impulse still thinking you tester is flashing a high voltage presence?
As always check for recent work that anything could have done that if all at once. Still codes even if you have a freebie at assorted places AutoZone by name advertises it wouldn't hurt but don't drive it like that is the problem.
This site? It's just slow some other formats and response time may suit folks better plus some quirks here still haven't been fixed like the error code you see or maybe not after you hit "post" something? It does go thru if you see that or does for me.
One advantage is this site is 100% free if any info gathering it's not intentional but you shouldn't get assaulted with ads for being here if that matters.
If lost with essentially a dead car over things like this try the swap it's info.
Other: If you go to test for DC current triggering coil(s) do use an LED one at least don't cause a draw by mistake the chances are near nil that way.
Those BTW are now dirt cheap can play how they work both power + ground lights red or green even on a 9V household battery marked + and - on those,
Tom
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dr.donut
User
Nov 15, 2019, 1:49 PM
Post #5 of 26
(2841 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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O.K. I was using a spark tester for those tests and my multi meter is digital (LED) ? There were no codes but the batt. was recently disconnected for a starter swap and it's not on the road so all it does is warm up , I got 2 starts after the starter was replaced . And you're saying #2 & #4 fire at the same time ? That's what I though but wasn't sure , should I test 1 & 3 ? Other recent work was the water pump , timing belt , crank & cam sensors back in july . It's been fired up numerous times since then .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 15, 2019, 2:27 PM
Post #6 of 26
(2837 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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Lots of engines for some time fire TWO at once the wasted spark doesn't harm a thing. Test one that does for the low volts or added ground to trigger it. It would have a new code if two are totally down again despite the battery disconnect.
On that: You can "save" memory with many code readers or do it yourself with a small 12v DC battery test cig lighter(s) if one stays with power when engine is off totally - no anything in it. Most cut out without ignition in "on" or "run" positions is let go so folks don't kill the car over phones and things I think?
You can do that right at the battery cable just be SUPER careful if no special devices. Fuse stuff if using jump wire or exposed alligator clamp tricks.
New crank/cam sensors? How new in miles if you know? How were they determined to be a problem at all? Might not have been then?
Same reasons not to run this too much. You are not firing properly so loading up yuk for converter to eat and doesn't like that for long or add that to your troubles.
That other work is invasive enough any mess up could be the issue.
Doc: My first thoughts on any issue this or other is was it caused by something recently work or some other something. New parts if and when possible do one at a time I'm finding horrible luck or quality control with way too much don't make guessing which new part didn't work quite right but worked a little!
Hammer took a break may shed some light or ways to test more better than I can suggest it's my default to start looking alone for stupid stuff right where someone was at doing anything.
NEVER MIND THIS FUN WHERE ARE THE DONUTS? :-)
Tom
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dr.donut
User
Nov 15, 2019, 2:52 PM
Post #7 of 26
(2832 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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O.K. I'll check for power to the coil(s) on the low side .
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 15, 2019, 8:08 PM
Post #8 of 26
(2823 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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If the coils are identical, then swapping them would be the most telling and easy test.
These waste spark systems create a complete circuit down one plug and return on the other so it is possible that if one plug wire is open circuit for any reason, it can kill the other spark.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 16, 2019, 1:57 AM
Post #9 of 26
(2809 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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Yes: Doc when using certain spark testers they do still need to absorb that current. Same with supply voltage to trigger them test for it's presence best while in place trying to work back probing. If current is just going astray it can take out something else in this case the second one working on same set up as HT said.
HOLD THE DONUTS TILL THIS IS DONE,
Tom
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dr.donut
User
Nov 17, 2019, 12:00 PM
Post #10 of 26
(2763 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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I swapped the coils 1 to 2 , 2 to 3 etc. then we checked for spark at each cylinder and got nothing , spark testers dialed down to the " 20 " mark . I'm at a loss .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 17, 2019, 12:15 PM
Post #11 of 26
(2759 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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? Are you trying to SEE spark or testing that it has it? I'm not sure you are using that tester properly if before you said 2 cylinders worked, what happened?
Swapping whole plug/coil would move which ones worked would be a valid test I'd begin with,
Tom
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dr.donut
User
Nov 17, 2019, 2:36 PM
Post #12 of 26
(2751 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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I have an adjustable spark tester (visual) and didn't have any spark on any cylinders , it's hooked to the coil tower where the plug would be and grounded on the motor .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 18, 2019, 2:53 AM
Post #13 of 26
(2729 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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From the top I may have misunderstood you. It looks like upon a total re-read it never had any spark and you just tested two? That changes this now if so.
Why did it get the crank and cam sensors go back and see if those are right if only thing plugged in ANYWHERE the dang plastic bail clips that hold anything together doesn't like working twice - nice.
Doc: I'm looking for a pattern from recent work history of it already messed with frequently the issue will be there.
Please correct me if the ambiguity of no spark totally or no spark on just two is misunderstood or I/we are off on the wrong tangent?
Tom
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dr.donut
User
Nov 18, 2019, 5:07 AM
Post #14 of 26
(2721 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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The cam & crank sensors were replaced this summer when I replaced the water pump for an over heating problem that was probably an air pocket , the lower timing cover were damaged & the belt may have been original so I don't think it was for naught . This was all in a previous post . We got the 09 accord for my wife and the civic came off the road . And there was no spark on any cylinder once the no start appeared . I'll take a look at the connectors for those but I wouldn't think they'd come apart just sitting in the back yard . I've been starting it up every 3 days or so .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 18, 2019, 5:55 AM
Post #15 of 26
(2719 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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OK, Damaged and taken off road over it but could run it?
Now I'd change up suggestions to go look real hard at the wires and connections 1st where it's known damaged or was and how fixed. Only some you get a real good view thru a wheel well may help.
It's just a hunch time now with that info a power or ground or any signal wire to imperative sensors that loses it especially if you can detect splicing of wire(s) it's hard to get a lasting splice - rather make it and back in position properly.
It might be the most help for testing plain continuity plug to next connection of the wires involved in making spark. HT has dug out some remarkable diagrams hard on my hand cranked PC to see hope if he can post one you can so printable.
ONE other thing you could do today or soon is since this just gets run periodically with this problem in history and it's age, time just sitting check for compression on a couple cyl. at least. If this went all out of valve timing for any crazy reason at least rule that out as if to say is belt or chain set up to top working well enough at all or nothing at all - just rule it out it's not that hard,
Tom
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dr.donut
User
Nov 18, 2019, 11:45 AM
Post #16 of 26
(2710 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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I checked the cam & crank sensor wires , cam wires come out of the cover in the plastic sleeve and the crank ones are in tact , they go into the sleeve right away . I did compression checks before replacing the pump , belt & sensors and got 160 , 145 , 145 , 165 I checked the coolant for combustion gases with the rental tool kit and that came out O.K. ( block test )? Now I just want it to fire up so it can go back on the road .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 18, 2019, 2:03 PM
Post #17 of 26
(2702 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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Good work! I'm stuck would need to find source power/ground set up how to make it spark AT ALL never mind on time. Compression would spark and react with fuel and spark if this was on a bench.
For now the missing link is where the real item(s) trigger it and how to test is why you came here and sorry to say I'd be searching the world over and bet HT would know or have the best clue.
If this was mine Dr. D and stranded with it with little to no info I would be poking wire with "T" pins for a break in continuity but am suggesting against harming wire insulation no matter how well you could seal poke holes that would come back and haunt you later.
I'm short of pro edition diagrams still lack to me where locations are so slow for you to get going for this one.
Still here I default to watch and see if another has better approaches for a basic ZERO spark issue for this exact car,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 18, 2019, 4:52 PM
Post #18 of 26
(2689 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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One more test
Use a noid light and check for injector pulse.
Also check for power arriving at the coils and injectors with the key on.
Does the check engine light come on for bulb check when the key is first turned on
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dr.donut
User
Nov 19, 2019, 7:36 AM
Post #19 of 26
(2662 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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I'll get the noid light , there's power on the black/white wire to the C.O.P. and I'll make sure the C.E.L. lights up , T.Y. ,
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dr.donut
User
Nov 23, 2019, 10:04 AM
Post #20 of 26
(2601 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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The CEL lights up , I got no pulse on 2 or 3 with the noid
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 23, 2019, 11:00 AM
Post #21 of 26
(2599 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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Does that mean you did get pulse on 1&4?
Do you have power arriving at the injectors?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Nov 23, 2019, 11:01 AM)
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dr.donut
User
Nov 23, 2019, 12:06 PM
Post #22 of 26
(2589 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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Only checked 2 & 3 , didn't check 1 & 4 but I can no biggie , there's voltage at the black/white wire on all 4 koeo
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Nov 23, 2019, 12:31 PM
Post #23 of 26
(2586 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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Not necessary. Just wanted to make sure I understood your findings.
Now, if you have power supply and check engine light, that means the main relay is working. You have no ignition pulse or injector pulse which points directly toward the crank sensor. One more way to confirm that is if you have something to read RPM while cranking. No RPM, not crank signal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dr.donut
User
Nov 23, 2019, 8:09 PM
Post #24 of 26
(2576 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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O.K. . Only reason I didn't want to hear that is because he crank sensor was replaced in the summer , I'll take a look at it and see if maybe there's a wiring problem . There's always the mice factor . I still have the old one I'll see what happens then . Thanks .
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dr.donut
User
Nov 26, 2019, 3:24 PM
Post #25 of 26
(2545 views)
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Re: 2004 civic no spark ,
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I put the older crank sensor in and it fired right up , you can pull the lower cover away to get to it , I had to rent the pulley tool from napa , I was talking about what I was doing and the guy says " should have gotten it (crank sensor)from the honda dealer " . Ain't that something , the guy that sells the stuff knows the parts are no better than auto zoo . They ain't going to give the $$ back , they'll probably give me another one without knowing/caring if it'll last a year even if it just sits in the basement on a shelf . Thanks again . Got donuts for the holiday and hopefully get some time off .
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