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Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 8, 2013, 3:49 AM
Post #26 of 34
(1898 views)
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Re: Could this be an oil pressure problem?
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This engine is cursed. You also have quite a history of failed work on it. It's been so messed with I'm not surprised by much of anything that has happened. Rebuilt is not close to OE new IMO. Bored .20 over is nuts also. That just messed with Mother Nature alone.
Go ahead and get compression test by someone who has a clue. Stinks as you are heavily invested in it but perhaps you should cut your losses and get out of this car for another that isn't so messed up - just my opinion. Your car, your money, do what you want,
T
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 9, 2013, 2:10 AM
Post #28 of 34
(1874 views)
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Re: Could this be an oil pressure problem?
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Rings are not IMO any cause of a head gasket problem. Trouble is, is it the rings or the cylinder walls or both already! I know people do it but tying to hype up a Toyota engine is wasting time as the original was usually so well balanced for exacting specs it could last many many miles - maybe a very dependable couple hundred thousand miles with routine care and no bad luck like an overheat or strange loss of oil pressure.
Boring out cylinders to me (my opinion) mean the end of that engine for long life. You lose all the balance that took millions in engineering to accomplish.
Rings can last ages. The metal available for over 50 years + is so much better than prehistoric times when a farmer could routinely do them for an oil burner with almost no tools. 1930s, 40s, 50s and got better quickly after that.
If the objective was to get more power it was barking up the wrong tree in a Toyota of this vintage. Almost any car newer than 30 years old.
Seriously - If you want more HP than it was designed with buy a car already designed that way.
Long retired now but the engines of choice to play with were all cast iron and you could play. Alter cylinder heads, polish intakes, camshafts etc and you could get some unreal HP out of some. The fav of them was a small block Chevy or even the big blocks. That killed them early too but you could do an impressive 1/4 mile time at the dragstrip.
Displacement is not the only game.
Trouble today is the car has to still meet all emissions and where I live - MA an altered engine would likely fail inspection for use on public roads and becomes a race use only thing.
Back to top post: What the reason this engine was replaced in the first place and why was the replacement altered or in need? There was a red flag there to begin with. If you need this car for plain transportation I wouldn't have one with a messed with engine.
Things are perspective on what you want and the reality around you. For me in Massachusetts there is no place to drive fast really and for what - to get behind a log jam a cars anyway. Kinda renders cars just four wheels to get around with but like about anywhere folks need them.
Back to this car. A compression test will show if lower end is now the problem. If unfamiliar you add a squirt of oil and if a weak cylinder comes to norms that indicates the pistons for any reason are out of spec. With the miles you mentioned that's way too early if it was ever done even close to well so I reassert this engine is cursed and would take another freaking fortune to make dependable.
Basics on the smoke out exhaust. Without doing anything, most that smoke while driving or accelerating will be a lower end compression problem consuming oil.
You decide. It's your car. You desires for what you want not mine,
Tom
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funkeytoad
User
Apr 9, 2013, 9:51 PM
Post #29 of 34
(1860 views)
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Re: Could this be an oil pressure problem?
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Thanks for the input Tom. I got duped on this car no question about it. The PO did all this work to the car not me. He went out of his way to show me all the paper work from all the work done and at his word said the engine had only 7000 miles on the rebuild so my thinking was that I was buying something not only fun to drive but also with a rebuilt engine that should last a good while (boy was I wrong). I had never bought anything like this b4 and if it had been a kid selling it I would have thought twice but this guy was my age and seemed as honest as can be. Just goes to show ya I guess.
I will find out tomorrow or on thursday what the tests say. It could be that I had a fried head AND bad rings from the start but I still think I would have noticed this smoking b4 I had the new head put on. Crossing my fingers that maybe this head has a bad valve stem seal causing this because it is still under warranty.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 10, 2013, 1:35 AM
Post #30 of 34
(1850 views)
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Re: Could this be an oil pressure problem?
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Oil burning from anything to do with valves should be momentary especially after slowing down then starting off again. A lower end (pistons, rings - all of it) if out of spec would more likely put out smoke while plain driving along or with a load.
An engine is so intolerant of being out of spec. It's been messed with. It's DNA (if you will) has been lost in space. All the good intentions and skills may have been applied and I think it plain failed. That engine never should have been redone IMO.
Again - redone is nothing like new. Not even close. Better than what has happened but not as good as the original (new) machine work ever again.
Not here to blame anyone but back to doing the head gasket so many times? If a job fails once, fine. By the second redo of anything you really pay attention to what went wrong and seems nobody did. 5 times is insane.
I guess if I were you I'd go ahead and get it diagnosed just to know and then it's time to "fish or cut bait'' type thing.
This whole thing is a sad story of failure as I see it,
Tom
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 11, 2013, 1:04 AM
Post #32 of 34
(1825 views)
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Re: Could this be an oil pressure problem?
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At this point just more comments: From the first post in now a two page thread this has been a nightmare as if I'm telling you something you aren't living. Already said that somewhere along the way this engine should never have been a "core" to work with from the get go. I don't know of this as always being a problem engine but never say never. Car makers have managed to make engine that virtually ALL of a type went bad from new in short order mostly long ago now.
* I'm not convinced anyone has assertively tried to mess you up, perhaps even the seller back last Fall. It certainly doesn't please anyone techs or a shop to fail.
* The block has to be junk along with the multiple tries. Even machine shops aren't perfect. The most invisable flaws could be missed. Perhaps just in tightening this poor thing back up brings out a hairline flaw that magically goes unnoticed. Again I'm a bit surprised after so many attempts that you haven't been advised to dump this engine for another. By the time the same problem shows up so many times I dare say most techs should have said something.
* The oil leak again. Holy crap. Whatever or wherever the flaw is, is still there. Is the replacement head bad - maybe - they make cars new that have problems, even Toyota that historically has been very careful not to produce a flawed design IMO.
+ Been out of this for ages now but not all has changed with gremlins like this. Assorted things would happen multiple times much more basic than this.
A Story of it with a design flaw not this car IMO: Late 70s Dodge Aspen, Plymouth Volare 6 cyl. from new would stall on a left turn if foot off gas. Obvious lack of fuel issues. Had one I fought with till the cows came home. Rebuilt carb (most cars were then) set everything right and it did the same frickin thing. OK - Dump that carb for another completely. SAME thing! OK - defect. On a few (only took a few minutes to swap those out) and I'm going nuts, parts supplier going nuts so changed it to another brand of carb completly and it STILL did it.
The answer with that is some whacked design flaw and all was good otherwise so the answer was to just raise idle and they didn't do that but live with a higher idle than most would like. Later came to find out almost all of them made did the same thing! What was a hair puller is the exact engine had been made in its basics for ages before that without this problem? Near killed me to figure that all out. Those were very popular vehicles so any subsequent complaints of the same issue was just turning an idle screw and all was well. Arggh!
* You've just run in to a not so funny comedy of the missing link with this disaster.
**** I default to say the core of this engine is flawed somehow along with bad luck. For all this work repeatedly I'm deeming this engine no good to continue with from this long history of repeated same problem that it has.
Again - It's up to you but I would bail out of this car.
Sorry for you and actually sorry for the shop too but they should have been thru a nightmare before and advised you to give up on that engine back now a long time ago. My opinion. Good luck,
Tom
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funkeytoad
User
Apr 11, 2013, 10:21 PM
Post #33 of 34
(1817 views)
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Re: Could this be an oil pressure problem?
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Turns out the oil leak was not the head gasket this time but the o-ring on the distributor. I thought that this could be a possibility when I took it in because this was on the drivers side, not where it had leaked b4 from the head gasket all those times on the passenger side of the engine. Shop owner said that head gasket set should have come with this O-ring but didn't so they didn't change it b4. He said head gasket is sealed tight.
Oil burning issue he said is from #4 cylinder piston rings being either stuck or cracked. It's a disapointment after spending so much to get this thing right but what can ya do? If I had ever thought that the rings might be bad I would have bit the bullet and had them replaced as well when the new head went on but for now I guess I will have to live with it because I'm just about broke throwing money at this car. I hate to but I may end up selling it some time this summer.
I never thought any of the techs were hosing me over on this saga. I knew they were doing their best, the 1st one tried but I left feeling like this was beyond his abilities to a degree but this was a back lot garage. After taking it to a higher end garage they said that there were missing bolts in places and that even the head bolts were a mixed match of different kinds (I hand delivered a box of expensive head bolts to that guy on his last attempt) so I don't know how that happened. In the end that 1st guy was just done with it and wanted me to go away and I did just that a little bit wiser. You get what you pay for.
The guy I bought the car from did hose me. I have no doubt in my mind that dude, after his rebuild ran the piss out of that car and probably had fun doing it untill he went too far one day and over heated it. Then he parked it out front and put a 4 sale sign in the window. Heck I remember him telling me that he was looking for his next project, a toyota supra that he planned to do a build on. I'm sure he is tearing one up right now and when he is done with it he will dump it like b4.
Thanks for posting your wisdom Tom and God bless ya!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 12, 2013, 4:56 AM
Post #34 of 34
(1806 views)
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Re: Could this be an oil pressure problem?
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OK - we should close this up soon. An "O" ring should be easy enough. A cracked ring if so means trouble but just stuck might be able to deal with without tearing into it AGAIN. An awful lot of money and effort has gone into making this right for sure.
Suggestion: Next time you buy a used vehicle, pay for a thorough, professional check of the vehicle as a whole. Any seller that doesn't let you do that pass on that vehicle just because of that. Seems to be a 'sellers' market right now. Prices are up for used stuff and hard to find good stuff. The super good stuff usually stays in a family or passed on to friends (scary thing to do if problems come along) and goes fast. Tough right now and has been for this market.
Again, good luck. Life - seems after a spell of bad luck it turns around eventually............ then buy a lottery ticket!
Tom Greenleaf
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