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Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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funkeytoad
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Feb 7, 2013, 12:44 AM
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Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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1995 Toyota Celica, bought this car back in the fall and it's been nothing but trouble. PO said that the engine (1.8) had been rebuilt 7000 miles ago (not the original engine). He had some machine shop do some work to it during rebuild, bored 20 over, crank knife edged. Gave me the paper work to prove it. I have no idea if any of these mod's have anything to do with this oil leak but thought it best to post it.
Did not take long after buying it to discover that I had an oil leak worse than I thought when I looked at it b4. Took it to 2 garages in town and they both said it was leaking from the head gasket. Payed the 2nd garage $750.00 to do the job. He ended up doing this head gasket job 5 times and it leaked again every time. Guy seems well respected in town here and said everything checked out flat, the head and the block. The 4th time he redid the job I demanded the head be machined anyway at my cost just so I was sure it was flat. Leaked again. The last time I had him use a graphite (thicker) gasket with brand new head bolts, it leaks now in 2 places.
My question now is this... Could this possibly be the wrong head gasket? I do not know what year this engine is for sure but I was told it is a 7afe 1.8. Are there different head gaskets for different year 7afe engine's? I'm totally lost now about what to do next. The engine runs great but I'm afraid that the oil is leaking into the cylinders as well as leaking outside. The guy at the garage said he is done with it and says that there is something else wrong with it. What could it be? Thanks for reading my long story, hope like heck someone on here can stear me in the right direction.
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Hammer Time
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Feb 7, 2013, 4:12 AM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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I appears that you have a very bad case of misdiagnosis.
I can't tell you that is is so rare for a head gasket to leak oil externally that i haven't seen one doing that in many, many years. That oil has to be coming from somewhere else, whether it be a cracked block or something else that they are just not seeing but head gaskets just don't do that.
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nickwarner
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Feb 7, 2013, 7:28 PM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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I'm thinking the same thing. I'm not surprised this guy washed his hands of it. He's doing the install correctly. I'm guessing this motor has been run a lot harder than the average commuter car. Nobody does that machine work on a Celica and does 55 in it after all. I'm guessing it got hot at some point and the block itself has a crack right near the deck surface. Only way you would find it is to pull the motor, strip it down and have it magnafluxed. By then you're doing a rebuild.
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Hammer Time
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Feb 8, 2013, 4:02 AM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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You're getting ahead of yourself again. Cracked blocks are not common either so you really need to find out exactly what the real problem is. If nobody is able to find the actual issue, then I suppose another engine may be the answer but i really can't understand why nobody can diagnose thise correctly. They can put U/V dye in the oil if it's necessary but it's not impossible to find the right problem.
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funkeytoad
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Feb 9, 2013, 11:59 PM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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Thank you for the advice. I know that I sound like I'm getting ahead of myself here but I am already out at least $800.00 so far getting this oil leak fixed and I am beyond frustraited. I guess at this point I'm afraid that another garage is going to end up taking me for more money. I did talk to another mechanic this week who thought it far more likely that the head would have hair line cracks than would the block but then this was the mechanic who gave me a quote of $1.200.00 just to replace the head gasket back in Oct. The only good thing right now for me is that the graphite gasket has this leak at more of a slow seep then what it was before so it is not making such a mess. Hopefully it will stay this way until I can save up the money to go through this again.
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speed
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Feb 10, 2013, 9:44 AM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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Mechanics will stand by there work. Im sure he stands by the head gaskets he replaced but the problem was not as simple as the head gasket obviously. Im sure this tech has done the head gasket correctly but its obvious the headgasket isnt the source of leak and it is not his fault the leak exists in the first place yes ill admit they should have found the actual problem by now especially since ad HT said there is dyes you can use to find leaks but he also is tired of your car im sure having to do a job that takes up a good part of the day 3 times for the price of 1 is very hard on techs that are commission(most are) and to top it off that tech doesnt get paid that full $800 if hehe is lucky he will get half that but in reality he will probably only get 35% of that 800.
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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funkeytoad
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Feb 10, 2013, 11:06 PM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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Mechanics will stand by there work. Im sure he stands by the head gaskets he replaced but the problem was not as simple as the head gasket obviously. Im sure this tech has done the head gasket correctly but its obvious the headgasket isnt the source of leak and it is not his fault the leak exists in the first place yes ill admit they should have found the actual problem by now especially since ad HT said there is dyes you can use to find leaks but he also is tired of your car im sure having to do a job that takes up a good part of the day 3 times for the price of 1 is very hard on techs that are commission(most are) and to top it off that tech doesnt get paid that full $800 if hehe is lucky he will get half that but in reality he will probably only get 35% of that 800.
This guy is the owner of this small garage and employs only one other guy so I kind of doubt your 35% estimate. I never said it was his fault the leaked existed! I was never cross with this guy, I never bitched, what I DID do was try and help the guy in anyway I could. I payed for all the parts, the head being machined, after the 3rd time back and on. I even asked questions like, " are we sure the head/block doesn't have cracks?". I was told that everything had checked out good. I'm SURE this guy was sick of seeing me and my car. I was sick of seeing him! Aside from being sick of trying to find someone to follow me over there to drop the car off and take me home, then find a ride to work for 2-3 days, then finding a ride back over there to pick it up again. I don't feel a bit sorry for him. When he 1st got my car it had an oil leak but ran like a top, now after all this it idles rough as hell, some of my gauges don't work (temp gauge for one) because he somehow mashed a wire harness, and the oil leak (he misdiagnosed) remains. Then he tells me, "sorry I did all I can do". This was the worst expeiriance I have ever had with any mechanic.
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speed
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Feb 10, 2013, 11:42 PM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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Well im sorry to hear about your misfortunes with this technician. From here its time to find a new shop id try a toyota dealership talk to them explain the situation that you had a bad experience at the previous shop and feel that you wasted your money if the dealership really wants your business they will.strive for your satisfaction that is any reputable dealer in your area. I wish there was more to be done but i guess you can only learn from this experience if you really want this car fixed otherwise id say try to sell it to aomeone who thinks they can handle it.
GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 11, 2013, 4:15 AM
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what I DID do was try and help the guy in anyway I could. I payed for all the parts, the head being machined, after the 3rd time back and on. I even asked questions like, " are we sure the head/block doesn't have cracks?"
Do you mean that you supplied the parts? And you think you were helping him?
I'm SURE this guy was sick of seeing me and my car. I was sick of seeing him! Aside from being sick of trying to find someone to follow me over there to drop the car off and take me home, then find a ride to work for 2-3 days, then finding a ride back over there to pick it up again. I don't feel a bit sorry for him.
You sound more like the customer from Hell. My sympathy is shifting to him.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Feb 11, 2013, 4:15 AM)
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funkeytoad
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Feb 12, 2013, 10:30 PM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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what I DID do was try and help the guy in anyway I could. I payed for all the parts, the head being machined, after the 3rd time back and on. I even asked questions like, " are we sure the head/block doesn't have cracks?" Do you mean that you supplied the parts? And you think you were helping him? I'm SURE this guy was sick of seeing me and my car. I was sick of seeing him! Aside from being sick of trying to find someone to follow me over there to drop the car off and take me home, then find a ride to work for 2-3 days, then finding a ride back over there to pick it up again. I don't feel a bit sorry for him. You sound more like the customer from Hell. My sympathy is shifting to him.
I did not start this topic to find any sympathy, lol. I only started it in hope that someone on here might have had a simular issue with this type of engine, or someone who might know of what could be causing this.
When I talked about helping this mechanic.... The price to do this job included parts, that was in my warranty. He assured me that the issue was the head gasket, if so I felt that the head gaskets he was using were not working. so I did a little research on line and found a video on you tube of a mechanic that had the same exact issue with the same exact engine. He said in the vid that a graphite gasket was the only thing that stopped his oil leak. So I supplied these gaskets and new head bolts (because he was still reusing the old ones) plus anything else he needed. Do I feel like I was doing all I could to help him solve this problem? YES. I knew that getting the head machined would come at my cost but I figured that they must have been missing something so I payed to have it done. I figured this was helping to try and solve it.
I can not begin to imagine how you think in anyway that I was the customer from hell??
(This post was edited by funkeytoad on Feb 12, 2013, 11:03 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 13, 2013, 9:19 AM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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My two cents is this engine wasn't a good candidate for a rebuild to begin with and modifiying it just added more headaches. Just me perhaps but if an engine needs to be bored over 20 as said up top it's junk. It's not some old iron horse engine that you do those things to,
T
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funkeytoad
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Feb 13, 2013, 11:56 PM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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My two cents is this engine wasn't a good candidate for a rebuild to begin with and modifiying it just added more headaches. Just me perhaps but if an engine needs to be bored over 20 as said up top it's junk. It's not some old iron horse engine that you do those things to,
T I think what happened was this, the PO bought the car as a toy. He threw out the original engine after buying it and found another 1.8 cheap, threw about $2000 into a rebuild (his receipts show that) to make it a high proformance car. The thing I think he didn't do was replace the radiator or anything to do with the cooling system, (reused all this). The reason I think this is because he went out of his way in showing me the brand new radiator, heater core, all hoses, and temp sensor, ect. Just about everything to do with the cooling system was brand new. This all didn't seem like anything but a bonus to me when buying the car then, but now after going through all this bs it seems very logical to suspect that he probably ran this car very hard and it over heated on him. He probably thought he just blew a head gasket. Thats when he replaced all the cooling system parts and had the expensive 2 piece steel head gasket (that was in there when 1st job was done). It leaked oil like hell after that so he supposed that the head was warped or cracked and decided to unload it on some fool like me. That's what I'm thinking now.
The last week or so after getting it back with the graphite gasket on there, (that I was holding so much hope for) I had noticed that it seemed to be leaking again. I decided to have the oil changed, and after that I noticed when checking the oil level that it was staying on full. I was at first thinking that the graphite gasket had done it's thing and sealed the oil leak. After looking at it 2 days ago I'm starting to think that I may have coolant leaking into the oil now and that's the reason that the level isn't going down. The oil looked okay on the dip stick and there was no white\grey ring around the oil cap but there was under the radiator cap. Not much, just a little bit and the over flow tube was sticky to the touch when I pulled it out. White smoke out of the tail pipe? It's hard to tell when it's this damn cold here in Ohio. I watched it the other night after starting it up to go home from work. It was pumping some steam while warming up but after I got it home I didn't see anything while it idealed in the drive way. I will be keeping my fingers crossed and hope that any contamination was caused during the last 5 head gasket replacments, and keep checking the oil.
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MarineGrunt
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Feb 14, 2013, 12:22 AM
Post #16 of 34
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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If you don't think the oil was changed after each head job, or the last head job, I'd change it and especially if you think there's some contamination from the repair. After changing the oil put some dye in it and see if you can find where it's coming from yourself. If not, ask around and find another shop. Check for the leak at night or in a dark garage. The dye will show up better. You'll probably have to jack up the vehicle and get underneath. It might not hurt to throw down a piece of cardboard underneath while the car is sitting at night so you can see if any leaks to the ground. If it does just trace the oil up to where it's leaking from. Maybe its running down, burning off on the exhaust, and not leaking at the head? From the sounds of it oil normally doesn't leak from the head. I realize it's possible, but since the car is drivable and you have it to look at, maybe treat it like it's not leaking from there and check everywhere else. If you are in fact losing oil it has to be going somewhere.
To rule out the antifreeze leaking into the oil, check the compression. Most auto parts stores have a tool loaner program and you can get a compression tester by putting down a deposit. That deposit will be returned once you return the tool. The mechanics here can give you some better advice on what steps you can take to track this down. They really know their stuff so just check exactly what they tell you to check. Antifreeze is kind of sticky so the overflow tube being sticky won't tell you anything. I know you said there was some white crap on your radiator cap but how does your antifreeze look?
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funkeytoad
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Feb 14, 2013, 1:22 AM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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If you don't think the oil was changed after each head job, or the last head job, I'd change it and especially if you think there's some contamination from the repair. After changing the oil put some dye in it and see if you can find where it's coming from yourself. If not, ask around and find another shop. Check for the leak at night or in a dark garage. The dye will show up better. You'll probably have to jack up the vehicle and get underneath. It might not hurt to throw down a piece of cardboard underneath while the car is sitting at night so you can see if any leaks to the ground. If it does just trace the oil up to where it's leaking from. Maybe its running down, burning off on the exhaust, and not leaking at the head? From the sounds of it oil normally doesn't leak from the head. I realize it's possible, but since the car is drivable and you have it to look at, maybe treat it like it's not leaking from there and check everywhere else. If you are in fact losing oil it has to be going somewhere.
To rule out the antifreeze leaking into the oil, check the compression. Most auto parts stores have a tool loaner program and you can get a compression tester by putting down a deposit. That deposit will be returned once you return the tool. The mechanics here can give you some better advice on what steps you can take to track this down. They really know their stuff so just check exactly what they tell you to check. Antifreeze is kind of sticky so the overflow tube being sticky won't tell you anything. I know you said there was some white crap on your radiator cap but how does your antifreeze look?
The anitifreeze looked okay, there was a couple of "flakes" of something I noticed while topping it off the other day but nothing that alarmed me other than the whitish spot under the rad cap. I wiped it clean and will be looking at it again tomorrow. I do not think the oil was ever changed after any of the 5 head gasket jobs done. I could be wrong on this but just my expieriance with this garage, I kind of doubt it. The oil was looking very black and that was the reason I had it changed.
The compression test I have already been thinking on. After this garage did the 1st HG job, the car ran great for about an hour or so b4 it started to stumble and run like total Sh!t. I returned the car to them and after a while they said I had almost no compression in cylinder 1. They called later to say that I had a burned valve in cylinder 1. This was the same cylinder that he had said was leaking oil into after he had it apart so was no big surprise. I payed then to have the valve replaced.
I have no idea how to work a compression tester so I will probably wait til I can afford to pay another garage to do it. The car runs pretty good now, still has a bit of a rough idle once in a while at a stop (which I cant understand) but other than that it runs good. Tell you the truth.... I'm kind of afraid of what a compression test might tell me! I have had no luck with this engine so far and I'm expecting the worst news.
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MarineGrunt
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Feb 14, 2013, 2:58 AM
Post #19 of 34
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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To do a compression test you just take a spark plug out and hook the adapter to a spark plug hole. It's pretty simple and something you could probably do.
I wonder if any of the other valves are leaking? If so, that's where your oil could be going.
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Hammer Time
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Feb 14, 2013, 4:16 AM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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If you really, truly still have ahead gasket leaking, then that means that whomever did the engine in the first place never decked the top of the block and the block surface is not flat.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Feb 15, 2013, 4:04 AM
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Re: Toyota Celica leaking oil from head gasket
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If you had read the FORUM RULES, you would already know why you link was deleted. The only links that you are allowed to post are your own pictures or videos.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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funkeytoad
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Apr 7, 2013, 9:37 PM
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Could this be an oil pressure problem?
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I posted about this car a month or so ago about it leaking oil from the head gasket. Long story short... had the car looked at by 2 garages and I went with the lowest estimate because I'm broke. Guy replaced the head gasket 5 times and it leaked again every time. Not only was it leaking out side the engine but was also leaking internally into one of the cylinders. Now I have taken it to a top notch shop (or so they say) and with a compression test it failed on #1 cylinder. Bad valve they said, and with my history from previous shop they decided a brand new head was in order. I had little choice so payed them $ 1.900.00 to do it. Now the car runs great, haven't noticed any leakage around head gasket but I'm now noticing blue smoke from the tail pipe once in a while when driving and have had to add some oil because it was a little low. I'm worried that the gasket has failed again and allowing oil to leak into the cylinders again. (They assured me that the block was flat and had no cracks b4 putting new head on.) I talked to the shop today and they said they would do another compression and leak down test but thought that it was now probably bad piston rings. I don't know, it never smoked b4 and it does not smoke at start up when cold, it seems to do it just when taking off from a stop or when down shifting.
Here is my question, could this be an oil pressure problem? The PO had the engine rebuilt and had the crank knife edged and it bored 20 over. I have read online that knife edging a crank shaft can cause oil pressure to go high but I have no idea if this is true but it does seem to fit my trouble. The car has no oil pressure gauge so I don't know how high it really is. Really stumped on this and growing very broke.
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