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2004 civic water pump test ?
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dr.donut
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Jul 8, 2019, 3:51 PM
Post #1 of 15
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2004 civic water pump test ?
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been having over heating problems with this 1.7 with about 95,000 miles on it , the problems have been taken care of ( leaks , thermostat , rad. cap ) but the gauge will creep up sitting at a light or in traffic and then back to normal , my son would turn on the heat and it would help , said the heat was weak at one time and when I was replacing one small coolant line I started it up with the hose off and nothing came out .. I would think the block is pressurized when running but not sure exactly how it works , you never know .. I can test the radiator for flow once I take it out but could use some help on the water pump test , It's a bit of a job replacing one I've seen . thanks .
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Sidom
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Jul 8, 2019, 4:19 PM
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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These year Hondas are real prone to head gasket failures but with that said, from what you have posted you need to make sure your cooling fans are coming on.
A common complain for a bad fan is overheating at idle or low speeds and goes back to normal at higher speeds.
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dr.donut
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Jul 8, 2019, 6:23 PM
Post #4 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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I recently did a compression test and got 150 psi on all 4 , and when it got hot we checked to see if fans came on and they did , he can go 50+ miles without a problem and has been checking coolant level every time it's parked after replacing rad. cap so the small amount that had to be added may have been air pockets . Temp always comes back down so far and only happens after a long haul so we'll be watching closely for coolant loss .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 8, 2019, 7:59 PM
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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Dr. Donut and your cars - son's this time: OK some stuff has been done that opened cooling system. #1 is getting it full and know it isn't that easy. Subject is about testing water pump? Not yet on that.
It has to hold pressure AND be full. Tiny bubbles (OMG wasn't that Lawrence Welk from the 1950s?) - never mind that song, but the bubbles if just a few should be purged if they are going to by now.
Pressure test it. It has to hold or would be erratic and would cause problems you don't have or know yet.
Basics is for anything. Pressure isn't coming from anything more than expanding coolant that would boil if not under pressure. Boiling is vapor and hot but doesn't exchange heat very well so pressure keeps coolant a liquid lots longer and higher temps needed vehicles run right at the boiling points is raised by pressure not unlike as used for cooking. Really.
The fun facts are water alone at sea level boils at 212F +/- and will stay liquid right about 3 degrees more for each PSI the system holds or 257F. Antifreeze adds a couple more degrees but pressure does the most do use antifreeze mix always hot weather or not.
Since forever most systems are made to hold about 15 PSI then would blow off any pressure over that is what the cap is for.
It has to do that much or it would be problems. Forget the water pumps ability to pump it's not indicated yet plain air out coolant only in and holding pressure then if not right job is finding why not,
Tom
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dr.donut
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Jul 9, 2019, 12:02 PM
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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Well I have 4 older vehicles , 2 were fixer uppers so problems are going to happen , he'll be traveling about 100 miles tonight so we'll see if the coolant is going anywhere , It's not 50/50 but it's not straight water either . Take it from there I guess . I told him to get a loan on something newer but he likes the adventure . Just like me and my father .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 9, 2019, 12:36 PM
Post #7 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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It's "opinion of mine" Dr. D: Newer isn't necessarily the solution alone. What you know on what you have if not some fatal problem lurking is $$ saved. Do always pay attention and listed routine maint. kept up.
Antifreeze: It can be lower than 50/50 as measure when known mixed or known from 100% empty which almost nothing will do without jumping hoops. Any Ethylene Glycol based antifreeze is terrible for heat transfer! What you say? Yes, that's why it's mixed a universal suggestion is 50/50 give you freeze protection to -34F on the dot.
It's gets lots cold than that in some places and life doesn't quit so adjust to 60/40 look at the chart that's now about beyond where a fuel will run. Batteries have almost no power so deal with the exceptional.
Conversely higher heats, strong A/C demand, high altitude too, trailering if applicable or super loads creating more heat than you could change for cooling system you lower % some down to about what shows for +20F give or take so it transfers heat better water does tons better than antifreeze BUT! It has no additives to control corrosion, bubbles like a foam from turbulence and is slippery for things with seals like a water pump is rubber sealed.
The slope of about all cars, some trucks or engine styles make placing a radiator and keeping airflow strong a real challenge.
You see it, a vehicle made aero dynamic is avoiding the wind impact from speed. Hmmm - so an air dam is low on the front creates a vacuum behind that so at speed air going thru wants to head down and out. Follow me?
If that's missing air speed jams UNDER the engine fans just pull or push air thru but the pressure under the hoods can be greater so it's a stale mate of airflow.
All that totally matters. Oh - those air dams I'm collecting the roads suk where I am they are all over the sides of the road busted off! How special. Make sure yours is there.
All that is the physics course 101 of cooling issue to solve and allow both extremes of temps to a point then can alter suggestions listed and only 10% if that fall into those categories.
So all that said vehicles are hard to purge air out. Many don't by themselves would require vacuum filling to get pocket that hide.
When all that is known and you know it holds pressure then there's a problem to be found.
Last for this novel: A head gasket can add just tiny spits of exhaust has higher pressure than cooling system and is acting as vapor. That also shows as pressure in system much earlier than it has for heat expansion can pull your hair out to make that diagnosis - a longer novel than this.
If a vehicle is neglected for routines you are just asking for horrors later some may happen anyway with the best of care all along.
This game (automotive technology/sciences has become a wild specialty to get a grip on each area that matters and why then how to fix OMG is extensive not for all folks,
Tom
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dr.donut
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Jul 13, 2019, 9:37 AM
Post #8 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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I went to the honda dealer and got a $42** stat. You could drive 20 miles and the gauge would be steady , then after the same 20 miles it would go 3/4 , fans working and coolant full , The one stat. lasted 5 months and the things are under $5** no matter where I go . You can't get a sandwich for $5** so I figured they had to be junk . We'll see what happens in the next few days .
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 13, 2019, 10:14 AM
Post #9 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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Save me the total re-read. This new 'thermostat' from dealer isn't any more dependable than any other that's said to be correct - right? Dealer may not use Honda parts just a box room for a lot of IDK crap.
Quality control has been out the window for a long time now. Temp settling at speed enough to NOT really need fans (many can shut down others not) really should stay steady. Stop and go AND a hot day can vary some.
What to do? It can be checked by touchless infrared thermometer right where it discharges should by rights be the rating for the thing. Hidden or air or vapor getting in system will screw anything up.
Still thinking but it stays like that after a time of working properly to you this can be found out why. More time, testing and do have to rule out the infamous head gasket problem can in fact be intermittent but not this predictably off??
Tom
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dr.donut
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Jul 18, 2019, 2:55 PM
Post #10 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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The temp. gauge still climbs , it could be a short trip or 50 miles , or it may not do it in that 50 mile trip , Usually sitting in traffic it'll climb , he said he turned on the heater to see if that helped and said it was cold at first but then got warm .The coolant level has stayed up
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dr.donut
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Jul 18, 2019, 3:08 PM
Post #11 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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temp. comes down once you get moving
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 18, 2019, 4:41 PM
Post #12 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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Quote you ">turned on the heater to see if that helped and said it was cold at first but then got warm .<"
That's enough of a warning it's not staying full of liquid inside explains all goofiness with it. Heat is at the ready unless this had some wild "climate control" set up and doubt that.
Now time to get right on it. You or he may hear it gurgle in dash as more proof? It's playing with you (the car) never mind it's clearly slow if it stays steadier 50 miles isn't nothing more like a few it's self purging some never all of it and adding more vapor so slow could be a pest it already is.
Back to diagnosing. Pressure test all over again and this time it needs a vacuum fill IMO no games that it's full before this goes nasty costly you already know it points to a head gasket job just proving it is the trouble.
I don't think anyone here trust the exhaust test in cooling system tricks if cheap try anything.
For me to say for sure I like a few tests to come out wrong so the repair isn't wrong and find it soon. It's hot (around me will be for a couple days) probably the years hottest is whole North-East US may do the real spike over the 100 mark and let the bitching begin the extremes bring out the problems is no surprise.
How often or much time do you have Doc to do tests on this? There's going to be plenty of time when this really fails to think about finding time or the right place for even hands on diagnosis you can believe.
The question is what can you do to make the time NOW no more waiting,
Tom
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dr.donut
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Jul 21, 2019, 6:16 AM
Post #13 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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I removed the heater hose from behind the thermostat housing and put in a length of clear hose with both ends above the engine as a riser to purge any air pockets . I noticed there was no circulation , I rigged the same thing up to the other honda and there was a good amount of flow , so I'll be replacing the water pump on the problem child . I imagine you should replace the timing belt but is it necessary ? Is the 1.7 an interference motor ? Any advice or links are appreciated , thanks .
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 21, 2019, 6:45 AM
Post #14 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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The 1.7 is definitely an interference engine
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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dr.donut
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Aug 2, 2019, 10:48 AM
Post #15 of 15
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Re: 2004 civic water pump test ?
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I replaced the water pump , timing belt and lower cover that had busted mount holes and a gouge in it . The water pump looked O.K. , , how it sat in an air pocket I don't know . At any rate the timing belt has a 60,000 maintenance so that's taken care of . The temp. gauge sat steady around town , my kid made a 50 mile trip and the gauge would go 3/4 and back down , when I topped off the coolant I did the heater hose riser thing and purged coolant through the " loop" with a little comp. air . I guess there's still air in the system or something but I've done about all I can . 2004 with 105,000 miles in good shape and I have $1,100 total investment , is what it is . Thanks again .
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