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2000 Ford Windstar Check Engine codes P0401-P0301-Po171-P0174


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SRQFL2
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Apr 28, 2012, 8:15 AM

Post #1 of 54 (10586 views)
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2000 Ford Windstar Check Engine codes P0401-P0301-Po171-P0174 Sign In

2000
Ford
Windstar SEL
3.8 Engine
159359 Milage


EGR has been replaced
Running ok as far as I can tell, Check Engine light has been on a few years. I want it off. I have been told by a mechanic its an expensive fix and the light is not hurting anything. It will just use more gas. Well gas prices have gone up, so if this will help me save gas that's a plus. I also worry that if something else goes wrong that my check engine light wont be able to warn me!
I had codes checked at Auto Zone, I have print outs if needed
This van has been very little trouble. The heater core was replaced in Jan 2012, and window problems is all I have had done besides changing and topping off fluids now and then.
I think when I look under the hood the engine gasket has been leaking, but the fluids stay where I put them well.


Discretesignals
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Apr 28, 2012, 11:12 AM

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Re: 2000 Ford Windstar Check Engine codes P0401-P0301-Po171-P0174 [In reply to] Sign In

Do you feel the engine misfiring or skipping at idle or when your driving around?

For the P0171 and P0174 lean codes you need a high end scan tool to watch the fuel trim. The fuel trim is the correction the engine computer makes to the amount of fuel it allows to go into the engine to compensate for the readings it gets from the oxygen sensor. It's important to note what the readings are at idle and off idle and at WOT to determine when you have the lean problem. Knowing when the engine is running lean will point you in the direction to look for the trouble.

It's possible the engine could be running lean and causing the P0301 code to show up. Unless the engine is missing all the time, you should correct the lean codes first and then go after the P0301 if it is still showing up.

The P0401 insufficient EGR flow most of the time isn't caused by a faulty EGR valve. It is usually caused by a clogged EGR passage or a faulty exhaust gas pressure transducer. Once again you need a scan tool to watch the pressure transducer voltage when you open the EGR valve. You also need to be able to run a Key on engine running test, to see if the engine computer is commanding the EGR vacuum solenoid to open the valve.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 28, 2012, 12:01 PM)


SRQFL2
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Apr 28, 2012, 2:14 PM

Post #3 of 54 (10507 views)
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I do not notice anything wrong when I'm driving, idle doesn't seem to skip a beat. A few years ago when the check engine light came on it was just one code and it was the EGR code or some thing else i don't remember, but we changed the EGR at that time. That was the simple thing to do. The other codes showed up when I just had the codes read April 6,2012. After my heater core problem I started to wonder if my light would have warned me about the heater core if it hadn't been on already.
I am sorry I didn't make that clear from the start, I tried to be detailed.
I am the daughter of a late mechanic, who taught me not to trust mechanics. I do know limited things. I thought I would get a general idea of what to ask for on a forum before going in with my van, if that's necessary. If it is a simple thing I would just do it myself.
This "high end scan" you speak of would need to be done at the ford dealer or any mechanic? Would I ask for a "high end scan"?
Another question I have, is this van could use a tune up.. its been a while, would that help with any of these codes? I'm just wondering if I should start with that? any ideas on that?


Discretesignals
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Apr 28, 2012, 2:32 PM

Post #4 of 54 (10503 views)
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Re: 2000 Ford Windstar Check Engine codes P0401-P0301-Po171-P0174 [In reply to] Sign In

Not all mechanics or technicians are evil or out to get you. I am not going to say that there aren't any bad techs, mechs, or shops out there, but bad people can be found in any profession. Most of the techs and mechs I deal with on a daily basis are honest and just trying to make a living. Word of mouth is the best form of advertisement and believe me a bad tech or shop won't last long once the word gets out.

With all that aside. Most shops that do solve drive-ability problems need to have the right tools to do that job. That includes the scanner to gather information for the tech to interpret, so he/she can build a strategy to diagnose your problem. What a lot of people don't understand is that the scanner is just a tool like a micrometer or thermometer. It doesn't tell you what is wrong with the car. It just gives you data. The data has to be interpreted and understood, so you know which step to take next when figuring out a problem.

If you take it to a shop, explain to them your situation and be detailed. The more information you can provide, aka history of repairs and when the problem or symptoms occur, the easier you'll make it for them to solve your problem. Don't be afraid to ask questions and if you get answers you don't understand or feel uncomfortable with, let us know and maybe we can draw a better picture for you. There will be a diagnostic fee, but your the deciding factor if you want them to perform the repair or not based off the estimate they give you. Don't be afraid to ask questions and have them show you what they found. The more you communicate with them, not asking how much longer, the better off you'll feel with the repair.

I can tell you this. Those engines were known for PCV problems. There was a redesign on the valve cover and the PCV grommet at the intake because the engine oil gets into the intake and makes the seals and grommets swell. When this happens you usually end up with a vacuum leak that causes a lean code. Sometime the oil being sucked up in there can cause the spark plugs to become oil fouled. It's a crappy design in my opinion.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Apr 28, 2012, 3:02 PM)


SRQFL2
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Apr 30, 2012, 10:36 AM

Post #5 of 54 (10455 views)
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Re: 2000 Ford Windstar Check Engine codes P0401-P0301-Po171-P0174 [In reply to] Sign In

I do know word of mouth is everything, good or bad. I plan to go see a mechanic a friend suggested.
I have been researching this problem for many months, I keep running into that valve cover problems that my van may have, and to me it seems like it talks about my problems with the codes. It also makes me think that maybe the mechanic that told me not to fix it may have been right. I just wonder if with my check engine light being on always if it will cause me to miss another problem. Or if ignoring it could lead to a much larger problem down the line. I do love my van, it has taken good care of me and my 5 grand kids. I don't see a new car or van in my future unless this one has something horribly go wrong. Since I am the second owner I don't know if the valve cover has been replaced or not. Is there a way for me to tell without taking it apart? I have found photos of the differences but they are inside.


Hammer Time
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Apr 30, 2012, 1:13 PM

Post #6 of 54 (10444 views)
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Quote
I just wonder if with my check engine light being on always if it will cause me to miss another problem. Or if ignoring it could lead to a much larger problem down the line.


Totally correct on both parts. The "ignore it" advice was very wrong

There is a known problem with these that I have run into many times and the valve cover is only a small part of it.

This engine leaks vacuum through the isolator bolts and the lower gasket seal in places that you can't see or spray. You need to go to the dealer and purchase the isolator bolt kit with new gaskets and remove the upper and mid intake to replace them.

Article No.
03-16-1
08/18/03 ^ DRIVEABILITY - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES(DTCS) P0171/P0174 STORED IN MEMORY -
VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 3.8L ENGINE ^ MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) - MILILLUMINATED WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE
CODES (DTCS) P0171/P0174 STORED IN
MEMORY - VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 3.8L
ENGINE FORD:
1999-2003 WINDSTAR
This TSB supersedes articles 03-4-7 and 00-21-8. ISSUE
Some vehicles may exhibit a check engine light on and lean Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) P0171/P0174 (system too lean bank 1 or 2) stored in memory. ACTION
Do not replace PCM (Powertrain Control Module), MAF (Mass Air Flow), or HEGOs (Heated Oxygen Sensors), as these parts are not the root cause of the lean codes conditions described. Refer to following Service Procedure for details.
SERVICE PROCEDURE
These conditions may be caused by a loose fitting on the fuel pressure regulator vacuum line on the intake manifold end and/or leaking isolator bolts/port gaskets in the lower to upper intake manifold mounting area. This condition is sometimes intermittent and may not be apparent on a warmed-up engine.
If the vacuum line from the intake manifold to the fuel pressure regulator is loose at the manifold (due to oil contamination), replace the vacuum line (9E498) and install a new design LH service valve cover (6582). Another vacuum leak source is the gasket (9H486) between the upper and lower intake manifold assemblies caused by a loss of tension at the isolator bolt assemblies (9S479) due to contamination of the rubber grommets from excessive oil pullover. 1. Perform self test, if codes P0171, P0174 are the only codes stored in the PCM then continue with this article. For any other codes, follow the normal diagnostic procedures found in the PC/ED Manual.


2. (ALL 1999-2003). Reprogram the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) with the latest calibration, WDS B26.2 release or later. Do not replace the PCM. Reset the keep alive memory. 3. (1999-2001 ONLY). Inspect the vacuum line from the intake manifold to the fuel pressure regulator for looseness, leaks and/or oil contamination and replace Vacuum Line (XF2Z-9E498-DD) if required. 4. (1999-2000 ONLY). Inspect the LH Valve Cover, it should be a (3F2Z-6582-BA) Install a new LH Valve Cover if required, refer to Workshop Manual Section 303-01 Valve cover-LH. (Refer to the following NOTE for description of the old style valve cover).



NOTE USING A SHOP LIGHT OR FLASHLIGHT, CHECK THE LH VALVE COVER TO SEE IF IT HAS ALREADY BEEN UPDATED TO THE LATEST LEVEL. REMOVE THE PCV VALVE AND RUBBER GROMMET FROM THE VALVE COVER AND LOOK THROUGH THE HOLE AT THE INTERNAL SHEET METAL BAFFLE. THE OLD STYLE VALVE COVER BAFFLE HAS A 3/16" DIAMETER HOLE IN THE 5:00 O'CLOCK POSITION AS YOU LOOK THROUGH THE PCV HOLE (FIGURE 1). VALVE COVERS FITTING THIS DESCRIPTION MUST BE REPLACED. 5. (ALL 1999-2003). Remove the upper intake and replace only port gaskets (9H486) and isolator bolt assemblies (9S479). The new isolator bolt assemblies use a rubber material that is green in color, do not use the old isolator bolt assemblies with the black rubber material (XF2Z-AA). Do not replace any other intake parts (black plastic or aluminum) or the lower intake gaskets, (9439 and 9A424/425) or the upper intake clamshell gasket (9461). Refer to Workshop Manual Section 303-01, intake manifold-Upper. 6. (ALL 1999-2003). While the upper intake manifold is removed, check the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) orifices that are pressed into each primary port of the lower intake manifold. If any of the orifices are plugged with soot, clean and unplug them with a pick and solvent. CAUTION DO NOT USE SMOKE DETECTION, PROPANE GAS, OR CARB CLEANER TO TEST FOR VACUUM LEAKS. (CARB OR BRAKE CLEANER MAY CAUSE INTAKE MANIFOLD RUNNER CONTROL (IMRC) BEARING FAILURE). SOME LEAKAGE FROM THE IDLE AIR CONTROL (IAC) OR EGR VALVE AND IMRC SEALS IS NORMAL. DO NOT REPLACE THESE PARTS, ESPECIALLY THE LOWER ALUMINUM INTAKE MANIFOLD. NOTE THIS CONDITION COULD ALSO BE DUE TO WARM AMBIENT TEMPERATURES AND THE USE OF WINTER GRADE FUELS WHICH HAVE VERY HIGH VOLATILITY AND MAY BOIL IN THE FUEL LINES (VAPOR LOCK) DURING A SHORT HOT SOAK. OXYGENATED FUELS WILL AGGRAVATE THIS CONDITION. IF NON-OXYGENATED FUEL IS NOT AVAILABLE, USE MID/HIGH OCTANE FUELS WHICH HAVE LOWER VOLATILITY AND MAY HELP ALLEVIATE THE CONDITION.







~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Apr 30, 2012, 1:23 PM)


SRQFL2
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May 2, 2012, 11:19 AM

Post #7 of 54 (10421 views)
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I went to my Ford dealer yesterday and asked if there was a way to get my van history. I just received that fax. On my history it says "vacuum leak test ECC DCL Diag replace valve cover and hose retest" this is under tech comments on the warranty history sheet this was done April 2002.
I am thinking this is good news.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


May 2, 2012, 12:15 PM

Post #8 of 54 (10414 views)
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Why is it good news? You still have a lean problem. Like I said, you need to replace the isolator bolts and lower middle intake gasket.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



SRQFL2
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May 2, 2012, 1:30 PM

Post #9 of 54 (10408 views)
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oh they don't do that all together? I appreciate all your help with this, looks like ill be finding someone to do that for me.


SRQFL2
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May 2, 2012, 6:59 PM

Post #10 of 54 (10397 views)
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I have an appt Friday at 8 am to have this work done on my van, I asked for the isolator bolts to be replaced and the middle intake gasket, he said he would also clean the EGR valve while hes in there.Cool


Hammer Time
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May 2, 2012, 7:03 PM

Post #11 of 54 (10394 views)
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Sounds good.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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May 2, 2012, 7:17 PM

Post #12 of 54 (10389 views)
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Also tell him to inspect the EGR distribution pipe outlets. Some of those like to clog up. You could have all of them clogged except for one and that could cause a misfire when the EGR is flowing. Another thing to check would be the IMRC motor linkage snap washers are good and the butterfly shafts are free.







Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
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May 2, 2012, 7:25 PM

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I think that's what the tech already said he was going to do.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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May 2, 2012, 7:36 PM

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Quote
he said he would also clean the EGR valve while hes in there.


The EGR valve isn't under the intake. Its rare the EGR valve itself clogs up. It's usually the ports.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
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May 2, 2012, 7:38 PM

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It's also pretty rare that a customer would understand exactly what the tech intended to do. Since he was including it with the intake removal, I assume he was cleaning the ports.




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SRQFL2
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May 2, 2012, 7:45 PM

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I will be sure he gets the ports also :)
I really appreciate the feedback here!


Discretesignals
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May 2, 2012, 7:45 PM

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Heck, this whole thread is an assumption. The intake wasn't even smoked to see if there is even a vacuum leak. The fuel trim wasn't evaluated to see where the lean condition is residing. There might be a dirty MAF sensor or lean condition caused from some fuel delivery problem going on. Hope that the isolators fix the problem, because that is kind of an expensive guess.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
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May 2, 2012, 7:52 PM

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I'll be as perfect as you someday too. If they have never been done, it's not a guess that they need to be done.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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May 2, 2012, 7:58 PM

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Believe my I am far from perfect. I've been burned a couple of times using the silver bullet approach, so I learned that you can't do too much testing. You may fix the problem replacing the isolators and the o rings, but then again you might not. Smoke test takes 10 minutes. Explaining to a piss off customer that the guess didn't fix the problem feels like an eternity.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on May 2, 2012, 7:58 PM)


Hammer Time
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May 2, 2012, 8:09 PM

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Let's just say I'll let experience do the guessing on this one. The isolator bolts by design have no longevity. This car is 12 years old and whether or not this turns out to be the only problem, I am rather sure these bolts and gasket will be leaking. That's the reason they issue TSBs on stuff like this. IT'S COMMON.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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May 2, 2012, 8:23 PM

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OK Sweetypoo, threads all yours.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


SRQFL2
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May 3, 2012, 12:57 PM

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In Reply To
I asked for the isolator bolts to be replaced and the middle intake gasket, he said he would also clean the EGR valve while hes in there.



SRQFL2
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May 3, 2012, 1:03 PM

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Well that didn't work ! I was trying to correct what I said there. Talked to this guy again today and it was the EGR ports , not valve that he said he would also check. My mistake.


Hammer Time
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May 3, 2012, 2:19 PM

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I understood




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SRQFL2
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May 4, 2012, 12:25 PM

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Ok the followup of my visit to the mechanics today. Before they started work on my van they called me back to show me something.
"During visual inspection found IMRC bushings broken and missing" <------ as written on my invoice
They told me this problem could also give me lean codes, I told them to go ahead and fix that also.
3 1/2 hrs later so far my engine light is off.




2000 Ford Windstar Check Engine codes P0401-P0301-Po171-P0174


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