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gasmonkey/wheelerdealers/fast&loud/fat & furious


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chas
User

Jul 15, 2014, 5:14 AM

Post #1 of 6 (759 views)
gasmonkey/wheelerdealers/fast&loud/fat & furious Sign In

GasMonkeygarage,WheelerDealers, Fast and Loud and Fat and Furious.
great show gentlemen.
You do an amazing job on fixing and restoring old run down classics.
I know it's impossible to discuss in depth some of the repairs and fix tips in 30 minutes to 1hour.
Alot of these vehicles go way back to the 60s and more. Alot of these vehicles from this 50s and 60s time era did not have power steering. They were manual steering gears. Manual steering gears wear out. There might be an oil plug that can be removed on the steering gear case to check the oil level or grease but most do not check it. Over time the steering gear ages, pitman arm shaft and seal get old from wear and tear and the oil leaks out down the pitman arm shaft. The worm gear and ball cock is worn out with huge left to right play in the steering wheel. This is very dangerous. If the steering gear and suspension is extremely worn a replacement or a rebuild of the steering gear, ball joints and rod linkages is needed.
Manual steering gears from way back can be a little out for the main stream circle and more difficult to replace, fix and get parts.
I replaced a manual steering gear on a 1971 Chevy P/U from a junk yard. It seemed to be ok so i bought it. After i got it installed i drove it down the road. It was fair. I got extremely lucky.
Could you guys talk a little about on manual steering gears on these old classics form way back and where to get steering rod linkages and manual steering gear replacements and parts for worm gears etc, reasonable for this kind of project on ald classic with manual steering gears from way back as far as the 50s and 60s? thanks


(This post was edited by chas on Jul 15, 2014, 5:34 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 15, 2014, 5:32 AM

Post #2 of 6 (750 views)
Re: gasmonkey/wheelerdealers/fast&loud/fat & furious Sign In

What specific car or truck are you interested in? Plenty of non power steering vehicles from the 60s on back. The common recirculating ball gearbox by different makers on same principles.


I don't recall a drain or fill but you just took the whole top off of some. Some meant to set or reset ball adjustment and if worn steering would be sticky and need whole replacement. Vehicle by vehicle not all the same. Reverse threaded things and so forth so tell us what creature you are interested in,


T


Pic probably a now show but basic idea of most of them shown if it shows at all.........


A maybe for a show......




(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jul 15, 2014, 5:48 AM)


chas
User

Jul 15, 2014, 6:00 AM

Post #3 of 6 (738 views)
Re: gasmonkey/wheelerdealers/fast&loud/fat & furious Sign In


In Reply To
What specific car or truck are you interested in? Plenty of non power steering vehicles from the 60s on back. The common recirculating ball gearbox by different makers on same principles.


I don't recall a drain or fill but you just took the whole top off of some. Some meant to set or reset ball adjustment and if worn steering would be sticky and need whole replacement. Vehicle by vehicle not all the same. Reverse threaded things and so forth so tell us what creature you are interested in,


T


Pic probably a now show but basic idea of most of them shown if it shows at all.........
****************************************************************** Hi Tom, no vehicle in particular. I like to watch the car garage shows on TV but they move real fast and don't recall them ever talking about manual steering gears and linkages on these old classics from way back while the show moves on......... These shows talk about alot of things. I find it hard to believe that these old run down classics dont need some kind of steering rods, ball joints and steering gear work and should be discussed a little if possible if they can find the time in the time slot...... I did a 71 chevy P/U Steering gear awhile back. If i remember correct there is an aftermarket chevy parts for steering gears but very expensive. I went to a junk yard and got lucky. I found a manual steering gear in fair useable condition...... If there are some reasonable sources for manual steering gears and steering parts reasonable i would like to know if i do another steering and steering gear project......Tom>>I don't recall a drain or fill but you just took the whole top off of some<< Some may have a plug on top. Not all. When i did the the 71 chevy P/U awhile back i took the junk yard find apart, cleaned it up, new seals, drilled a hole on top for the gear oil fill. It was a little bit of a project. It had to be done. The original manual steering gear in the truck was completely worn out. btw, nice pic in your thread. That is a manual steering gear. Every manual steering gear i worked with all had the same wear. The input shaft worm gear, ball cock, and pitman arm and seal at the bottom of the pitman arm wear out. The grease or oil runs out. btw, using paragraph and indent form does not work. I used ..... for new paragraph.....why can i not get the proper paragraph and indent working proper?



(This post was edited by chas on Jul 15, 2014, 6:23 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 15, 2014, 6:25 AM

Post #4 of 6 (724 views)
Re: gasmonkey/wheelerdealers/fast&loud/fat & furious Sign In

Took me a while but look back and pics show or just Google, Bing "Images" for recirculating ball gear boxes etc.


I don't happen to recall fill or drain plugs but some might have had them? 71 GM didn't TMK. If position was adjuster and lock nut upwards you could take it off but scary now - don't mess with the thing or lose parts.


Adjustment is done with it EXACTLY aiming for dead ahead also called preset if it's been all apart for a reason. If driven and too tight it just ruined the entire gearbox! Shaft up to column if not altered on about everything had a mark were it was pointing straight ahead both power and manual. Take steering wheel cover off to see that shaft and mark or don't touch these.


Do or can they leak? Anything that holds an oil type something or liquid sure could. Success of a new seal would vary. When some PS boxes leaked out seal at Pitman arm shaft it was lots easier to just toss whole thing on some.


Again - Doing this or taking these apart is totally AYOR as said if done wrong whole box is junk as the balls will gall the channels of the worm gear permanently.


Should know but if a fill and drain plug of plumbing threads top one should release pressure or it would blow any seals just with heat expansion. Not a clue if you can just go out and find those. Perhaps a gear case for a lawn tractor/mower would have them. Not called for in anything I know of that's street legal anymore.


On about the topic. Most lasted fine unless hard use and do not recall any service suggestions on checking oil/gear oil level ever on a maintenance list..........


T



chas
User

Jul 16, 2014, 7:34 AM

Post #5 of 6 (691 views)
Re: gasmonkey/wheelerdealers/fast&loud/fat & furious Sign In


In Reply To
Took me a while but look back and pics show or just Google, Bing "Images" for recirculating ball gear boxes etc.


I don't happen to recall fill or drain plugs but some might have had them? 71 GM didn't TMK. If position was adjuster and lock nut upwards you could take it off but scary now - don't mess with the thing or lose parts.


Adjustment is done with it EXACTLY aiming for dead ahead also called preset if it's been all apart for a reason. If driven and too tight it just ruined the entire gearbox! Shaft up to column if not altered on about everything had a mark were it was pointing straight ahead both power and manual. Take steering wheel cover off to see that shaft and mark or don't touch these.


Do or can they leak? Anything that holds an oil type something or liquid sure could. Success of a new seal would vary. When some PS boxes leaked out seal at Pitman arm shaft it was lots easier to just toss whole thing on some.


Again - Doing this or taking these apart is totally AYOR as said if done wrong whole box is junk as the balls will gall the channels of the worm gear permanently.


Should know but if a fill and drain plug of plumbing threads top one should release pressure or it would blow any seals just with heat expansion. Not a clue if you can just go out and find those. Perhaps a gear case for a lawn tractor/mower would have them. Not called for in anything I know of that's street legal anymore.


On about the topic. Most lasted fine unless hard use and do not recall any service suggestions on checking oil/gear oil level ever on a maintenance list..........


T ******************************************* Tom>>>>>I don't happen to recall fill or drain plugs but some might have had them?>>>>i have seen them on some american and foriegn. atm, I have a toyota p/u for transportation with a manual steering gear with a fill plug at the top by the input shaft. I use heavy gear oil. Tom>>>>>Adjustment is done with it EXACTLY aiming for dead ahead also called preset if it's been all apart for a reason. If driven and too tight it just ruined the entire gearbox>>>>>it looks like if the top adjustment is not right the mesh of the gears in the box will bind creating steering problems. Tom>>>>> When some PS boxes leaked out seal at Pitman arm shaft it was lots easier to just toss whole thing on some.>>>>>yeah, i agree. It's done worn out. I would get a replacement, a remanufactured exchange or get a rebuild kit with the new input shaft worm gear, ball, pitman arm and seals. Tom>>>>>Should know but if a fill and drain plug of plumbing threads top one should release pressure or it would blow any seals just with heat expansion>>>>>not sure what you mean. i guess you mean it should have a threaded cap at the top to allow for expansion from heat. It did not have an expansion pressure release that i could visibly see or find. I created a threaded cap at the top to allow check and fill. Tom>>>>>On about the topic. Most lasted fine unless hard use and do not recall any service suggestions on checking oil/gear oil level ever on a maintenance list..........I have never seen much of anything on the maintanance for this in any manual. They get old and worn with age. imo, i watch the pitman seal on a manual or a P/S(power steeering) and check the oil once in awhile and P/S fluid in the tank often. If the pitman seal is leaking oil or P/S fluid its time to do something or keep adding. I have seen them leak slowly or leak fast. The pitman arm and the shaft is a sludged mess. The pitman arm, busching and seal is worn.



(This post was edited by chas on Jul 16, 2014, 7:58 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jul 16, 2014, 9:36 AM

Post #6 of 6 (683 views)
Re: gasmonkey/wheelerdealers/fast&loud/fat & furious Sign In

Venting a must. Vaguely recall a cap having a cut spot such that that one couldn't hold pressure on something?


The "straight ahead" is critical both that a steering column shaft (marked) and that it's correct! Along the way those damper bushings in shafts or accidents or some reason mark could be wrong.


The most of the steering boxes meant for steering (used for some other things with the concept) are "lash" free pointing dead ahead with increasing free-play as it turns to account for the different tracking of front wheels on sharp turns that have different size circles if you made just complete circles you'd see none are the same so wheels need to point a bit off parallel for that or would feel like crap.


Try is with whatever you drive - check for that free play straight ahead with engine of PS systems and again at a full turn. Feel the added free-play when fully turned that you never noticed before. All do that.


Back to the point. Damage is permanent if you adjust one wrong and drive it. If not abused (said before) most last about forever. Agreed that if one runs dry of oil it would wear out.


Newer or ancient most people would toss whole units if troubles. Think, shaft seals and all what made it leak the shaft or the poor, worn or damaged seal? Lost art, the whole thing once routine lots older than vehicles you spoke of,


T







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