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What to do with this Mechanic???


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TJsage79
User

Jul 30, 2010, 4:55 PM

Post #1 of 30 (2466 views)
  post locked   What to do with this Mechanic???  

After a relative passed I was given a 1984 Porsche 944 turbo. I never had any money to do anything to it so it sat for at least 3 years. It had a smoking/gas smell problem so when I got money to bring it back to life I bring it to a mechanic who says he wants to look at it first to see if its worth saving.....

He says yes and gets me for about 4,000 in brakes, front struts???, and god knows what to seal every thing up.....

I said I wanted the car in running condition and to do a full over haul so I could have a working car.....

So after 4 months of not having the car more then a day due to oil leaking and battery dying, he says he needs to re-seal all this stuff for another 1,200.....

So what the hell do I do and can I sue this bastard?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 30, 2010, 5:21 PM

Post #2 of 30 (2461 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Sue him for what? Because you have a car that is a money pit? Unless you can prove that he charged for work that he didn't do or that he sold you work that it didn't need, he hasn't done anything illegal.



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TJsage79
User

Jul 31, 2010, 1:42 AM

Post #3 of 30 (2453 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

I thought he was supposed to fix the car???? Make it drivable???? Is it proof enough that it cannot drive????

It my line of work if you pay for something, I have to deliver that job 100%...

I told him to do a complete overhaul to make it perfect again...Said do everything....

So if your plumber installs your bathroom and has done all the work???But their are leaks everywhere and you only have cold water..... Unless you can prove that he charged for work that he didn't do or that he sold you work that it didn't need, he hasn't done anything illega?


re-tired
Veteran / Moderator
re-tired profile image

Jul 31, 2010, 3:42 AM

Post #4 of 30 (2451 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Whoa ,back up. Yes he has an obligation to repair ACCORDING to a work order signed by YOU. If you did not get a WO signed by both parties . It comes down to his word against yours. Without written documentation your only recourse is arbitration IF he agrees to it. Communication not lawyers is way out. If you think HE was expensive. ....wait and see what a lawyer gets ..........with no garantee of fix I might add.


LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH


TJsage79
User

Jul 31, 2010, 4:52 AM

Post #5 of 30 (2450 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Being too expensive was not a problem....I just wanted to be able to drive the car.....Im not keen on the mechanic world.....Whats is the deal after dumping 4,000 into a car and not being able to drive it?

The only written contract is the recipe for the work he did, parts, labor?....

Just still dont understand how in this line of work it is often accepted to get away with partial or shoddy work.....


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 31, 2010, 5:26 AM

Post #6 of 30 (2446 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Shoddy work? Do you have any proof of that?
It sounds to me like your vehicle needed a lot more work that what you authorized to be done. You just saying that you wanted a complete, finished car when he was done isn't a specific repair. You contracted for some specific repairs. Now, if these specific repairs were not done or done incorrectly, you may have a case but just because a vehicle needs more work beyond what you paid for, does not give you any right to go after him fpr the other repairs he made.



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TJsage79
User

Jul 31, 2010, 4:39 PM

Post #7 of 30 (2436 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

So I guess its my fault? just like everything else today it seems like more rights are given to people who do wrong rather then good.....So I just have to say Thats That???You tried to fix it, the 4,000 didn't address the problem, Sorry and its understandable the car is not usable.....?

And if i give him the extra 1,200, and its the same thing????

Seems like a great business......Take a job, get paid and if the job is complete or not....You are not at fault and can even ask for more money to finish the original job????....

Just seems like this is all to often in this business and very often do you come across people with the same stories...


TJsage79
User

Jul 31, 2010, 4:42 PM

Post #8 of 30 (2432 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

I mean just on craigslist alone you can find a porsche 944 for under 3,000.......And this guy is telling me thats its worth it to dump 4,000 into it???? Every other mechanic I call now tells me its not worth putting any money into ?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 31, 2010, 4:54 PM

Post #9 of 30 (2432 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Stop feeling sorry for yourself and looking for someone else to blame.... When you make the stupid decision to try to resurrect a car that should have stayed in the junkyard, that's the price you pay. Stop trying to blame everyone else because you took on a job that needed more work than your wallet could handle. Everybody wants to blame the repair shop when things don't turn out the way they had hoped. Nobody seems to blame the doctor when the patient doesn't turn out they way they had hoped. You don't get any guarantees from them when they start treatment. Your car isn't any different. You get what you pay for and if that only takes you half way to your goal, that's not the shops fault.
You should have gotten some other opinions on whether that car was worth fixing or not. Don't ask the guy that expects the business.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 31, 2010, 4:58 PM)


TJsage79
User

Jul 31, 2010, 5:54 PM

Post #10 of 30 (2427 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

So then i just have to eat it on this 1????

The money isnt a problem, it was just the resurrection of a car with sentimental value that I thought when you ask for something to be fixed, then usually it gets fixed?.

Mechanics are telling me 4,000 worth of work should have done the job,

My Stupid decision?.....When someone hires me to put in a driveway or parking lot I dont offer a prof. opinion and after the job say you should have done your research and not put a driveway on sand or a area prone to flooding....

If my Driveway is flooded or sinking I get sued...Cant say your fault for investing in it, want it fixed cough up more money....

If this happened to anyone else,,,,,Which im not aware of the mechanic world, but it is perfectly normal to accept that after 4,000 in repairs, then NOTHING???

What would U people do, sounds like I just have to accept it, move on??? For some reason thats seems wrong to me?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 31, 2010, 5:59 PM

Post #11 of 30 (2424 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

the thing your just not accepting is that yes, you put $4000 into a car but the car needed $6000 or more worth of work. You said it yourself. Sentimental value. That will make you over spend every time. The car obviously never should have been repaired. That can't always be seen up front.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Peter Blake
Novice

Aug 4, 2010, 10:21 PM

Post #12 of 30 (2395 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

I think your point is right. If you told him to make car drivable then he have to deliver it at first place and charge for that at that time. If the car is not completely ok and some work is not fixed how can he handover the car to you without completing whole work.


re-tired
Veteran / Moderator
re-tired profile image

Aug 4, 2010, 11:15 PM

Post #13 of 30 (2389 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

As i have stated earlier. What ezackly did your Contract (work order) call for. " Fix my car " is the same as hiring a contractor for 100k and telling him to"build me a house" with no blueprints . This industry does have a safety net thru the BBB. They have arbitration boards to settle cases such as yours . Both parties have to agree by the findings . You present your proof and the shop presents theirs. An independant expert (which i have been )will provide technical assistance to explain in laymans terms what work was done and in his opinion was it done right. The board then will determine if it was done according to the contract(WO) . I have seen the axe swing both ways . Sometimes the shop was found to have breached the contract , somtimes it came down to buyers remorse. If you feel you have a case go into arbitration and quit slandering every shop in the business .


LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH


danastanley
User
danastanley profile image

Aug 6, 2010, 3:00 PM

Post #14 of 30 (2367 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Sorry to butt in, but I really really really want to share my opinion on this.

To the guy with the Porsche:

I know how frustrated you are, I've been in your shoes. You should pick a mechanic like you would pick your doctor. One you understand, can relate to, and feel somewhat confident in his mechanical understanding and ability. Judging by your posts, this is not the case with your current mechanic. Having said that, remember: A mechanic's ability is his 'goods'.

Have you ever heard the phrase 'caveat emptor' ?? It is a legal term that would be applied in judging this case.
The definition of this is 'let the buyer beware.' You can read the full definition below.
_________________________________________________

[Latin, Let the buyer beware.] A warning that notifies a buyer that the goods he or she is buying are "as is," or subject to all defects.
When a sale is subject to this warning the purchaser assumes the risk that the product might be either defective or unsuitable to his or her needs.
This rule is not designed to shield sellers who engage in Fraud or bad faith dealing by making false or misleading representations about the quality or condition of a particular product. It merely summarizes the concept that a purchaser must examine, judge, and test a product considered for purchase himself or herself.
_________________________________

You are probably going to read the definition and say this does not pertain to your situation.... but it does. Your 'fault' is trusting what the mechanic said needed to be done - and then signing a work order to do those repairs. Even if you sued the mechanic, if he has done what the work order says, you have no case. Bottom line, you told the mechanic you wanted one thing (the car to run/work good) yet you signed a work order that says something else (front end repairs). I don't think the mechanic is a scam artist, I think it may have been lack of communication. I am not a mechanic but I have known many of them in my lifetime, and with the exception of a very few, the majority of them are very good, honest, people.

What a mechanic sees as the worst problem and what a car owner sees may be 2 different things.

The very last sentence 'a purchaser must examine, judge, and test a product considered for purchase himself or herself.'

would be the deciding factor in a case such as this. The fact that you expected one outcome and got another would not even be allowed to be presented. Bottom line, you accepted the mechanics opinion.

My advice is this: Do not pay this particular mechanic any more money. I'm not saying he does not have skill or honesty, I'm saying his ability doesn't matter if you do not trust him. Also, you should never ask someone else if something is worth saving or worth the money - any answer is an opinion and the only opinion that matters is yours. You are on this board now because you feel slighted, if you would have researched FIRST (instead of now) there might have been a different outcome. Get your car back and start over, research possible reasons for your problems so at the very least you can make an informed decision when hiring a mechanic.

Dana
This year I've learned I'm much better at building websites than I am at repairing automobiles.



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Aug 6, 2010, 3:16 PM

Post #15 of 30 (2365 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Well stated Dana



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TJsage79
User

Aug 7, 2010, 2:26 AM

Post #16 of 30 (2350 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  


In Reply To
As i have stated earlier. What ezackly did your Contract (work order) call for. " Fix my car " is the same as hiring a contractor for 100k and telling him to"build me a house" with no blueprints . This industry does have a safety net thru the BBB. They have arbitration boards to settle cases such as yours . Both parties have to agree by the findings . You present your proof and the shop presents theirs. An independant expert (which i have been )will provide technical assistance to explain in laymans terms what work was done and in his opinion was it done right. The board then will determine if it was done according to the contract(WO) . I have seen the axe swing both ways . Sometimes the shop was found to have breached the contract , somtimes it came down to buyers remorse. If you feel you have a case go into arbitration and quit slandering every shop in the business .



TJsage79
User

Aug 7, 2010, 2:45 AM

Post #17 of 30 (2348 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  


In Reply To
Sorry to butt in, but I really really really want to share my opinion on this.

To the guy with the Porsche:

I know how frustrated you are, I've been in your shoes. You should pick a mechanic like you would pick your doctor. One you understand, can relate to, and feel somewhat confident in his mechanical understanding and ability. Judging by your posts, this is not the case with your current mechanic. Having said that, remember: A mechanic's ability is his 'goods'.

Have you ever heard the phrase 'caveat emptor' ?? It is a legal term that would be applied in judging this case.
The definition of this is 'let the buyer beware.' You can read the full definition below.
_________________________________________________

[Latin, Let the buyer beware.] A warning that notifies a buyer that the goods he or she is buying are "as is," or subject to all defects.
When a sale is subject to this warning the purchaser assumes the risk that the product might be either defective or unsuitable to his or her needs.
This rule is not designed to shield sellers who engage in Fraud or bad faith dealing by making false or misleading representations about the quality or condition of a particular product. It merely summarizes the concept that a purchaser must examine, judge, and test a product considered for purchase himself or herself.
_________________________________

You are probably going to read the definition and say this does not pertain to your situation.... but it does. Your 'fault' is trusting what the mechanic said needed to be done - and then signing a work order to do those repairs. Even if you sued the mechanic, if he has done what the work order says, you have no case. Bottom line, you told the mechanic you wanted one thing (the car to run/work good) yet you signed a work order that says something else (front end repairs). I don't think the mechanic is a scam artist, I think it may have been lack of communication. I am not a mechanic but I have known many of them in my lifetime, and with the exception of a very few, the majority of them are very good, honest, people.

What a mechanic sees as the worst problem and what a car owner sees may be 2 different things.

The very last sentence 'a purchaser must examine, judge, and test a product considered for purchase himself or herself.'

would be the deciding factor in a case such as this. The fact that you expected one outcome and got another would not even be allowed to be presented. Bottom line, you accepted the mechanics opinion.

My advice is this: Do not pay this particular mechanic any more money. I'm not saying he does not have skill or honesty, I'm saying his ability doesn't matter if you do not trust him. Also, you should never ask someone else if something is worth saving or worth the money - any answer is an opinion and the only opinion that matters is yours. You are on this board now because you feel slighted, if you would have researched FIRST (instead of now) there might have been a different outcome. Get your car back and start over, research possible reasons for your problems so at the very least you can make an informed decision when hiring a mechanic.

Dana

And its just another way in our backwards world today when someone hands over their hard working money while the wrong people are protected. Who has time to research and make sure a pro is doing his job. Do you research your plumbing before you add another bathroom, do you research about dormers when your house is built?? Yeah maybe you scratch the surface, but you dont expect the pro you hired to say well this second bathroom you built has zero water pressure,,,,,so sorry I just built you this 10,000 bath, but you should have researched if your water system could handle a second bath. Now to fix this you will need another 10,000, and plumbers do this all the time and its called scamming the customer....

Oh nice dormer on your house,,, to bad it has to be torn down because the pro you hired....well you should have researched about zoning because he was too lose to the property line....now its 15,000 to take it down....

Backwards......

Molest children = Light sentences and then free room and board in gov motels
Illegal Immigrants= Work tax free, mostly cash, children get free education, driver li and insurance,,,NAH....tax payer money to translate everything for you.
Terrorists= Muslims build huge mosques at every site of their war victories, Turkeys huge church was converted into a Mosque when Turkey was invaded by Muslims, Isreal's temples converted into Mosques when fighting the Muslims...And now they are building a 13ft mega Mosque in the graveyard of thousands of Americans killed by Muslims at ground zero.

Im my town illegals get pulled over and the officers dont even know where to start and most are let go...its called safe haven cities where its racist to ask a person of color for i.d. Pull over a citizen and the Police tell themselves,,,,finally someone I can look up, check and give a ticket....

Completely backwards.....



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Aug 7, 2010, 5:23 AM

Post #18 of 30 (2344 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

OK, this is not a format for you to just rant and rave about politics or anything else you don't like in the world. The situation has been explained to you so now it's time to stop bashing shops and go solve your problem.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Aug 7, 2010, 8:05 AM

Post #19 of 30 (2336 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Oh come on Hammer! Rant all you want!

Go fly with me!



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Aug 7, 2010, 8:23 AM

Post #20 of 30 (2329 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

He's done all the mechanic bashing he's going to do here.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Sidom
Veteran / Moderator
Sidom profile image

Aug 7, 2010, 12:00 PM

Post #21 of 30 (2324 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

What has been missed in all of this, is this was a car that has been sitting for an extended period of time. These are notorious for other areas failing after the initial repairs are made to make the car road worthy. This is just a fact of life and I have seen it numerous times.
If the original tech didn't communicate this, then he probably hasn't done many of these and while unfortunate, doesn't mean he is incompetent or dishonest. This is playing out exactly like all the sitters I've seen get put back on the road. You can expect about 5 to 6 "waves" of parts failures, minimum. Parking a vehicle for extended periods of time is hard on parts. So parts that look & test ok in the original inspection tend to fail after they go back into service and start getting used again. And as far as "completely" checking "everything" out, 1st there are no tests you can run that will predict if a part is going to fail and if there was it would be completely cost prohibitive to run them on every system, part, seal & gasket in the car.

In a nutshell you spent 4k to get the car going, that's in the ball park. Now it needs another 1200...I'm sure it does, this is the 1st wave of failures. You CAN expect 3 to 4 move waves. It's not a guarantee but the odds are very high this is going to happen with this vehicle. It's not the tech or shops fault. It's not a case on incompentency. This is a car that has been sitting you want to put back on the road and this is what happens to cars that get parked for extended periods of time...

With this info you need to make a decision if you want to continue or not. If you want to "completely" go thru "everything" to make it all new so you don't have to deal with the waves, your probably looking at 100k & a year down time minimum....

You said money was no object so those are your 2 choices. You've (hopefully) cleared the biggest hurdles already but there will be a few more to go and then you should be good for while but at the end of the day you still have an older car and with any car....parts go out.
Your other option would be to "totally" restore the car top to bottom and that would take some serious money. You sound somewhat educated in your posts....You're honestly telling me that you really thought that 4k would completely restore a Porsche from top to bottom, frt to back....EVERYTHING??? Come on guy!

If you seriously believed that, you are completely out of touch with reality in the 21st century, maybe in the 60s you could got that price. Frt brks on a Beamer for just pads & rotors is close to grand......


You have some very narrow views that are probably best kept to yourself. Actually I think I would enjoy seeing you having to do some these "lost" jobs illegal aliens are doing.

Are you really that big of an authority of the Muslim religion ? Or just judging them of the actions of a few fanatics...

So I guess you are a "true" patriot.....Someone who loves his country while hating 90% of the people who live there?


(This post was edited by Sidom on Aug 7, 2010, 12:02 PM)


TJsage79
User

Aug 7, 2010, 12:49 PM

Post #22 of 30 (2319 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  


In Reply To
What has been missed in all of this, is this was a car that has been sitting for an extended period of time. These are notorious for other areas failing after the initial repairs are made to make the car road worthy. This is just a fact of life and I have seen it numerous times.
If the original tech didn't communicate this, then he probably hasn't done many of these and while unfortunate, doesn't mean he is incompetent or dishonest. This is playing out exactly like all the sitters I've seen get put back on the road. You can expect about 5 to 6 "waves" of parts failures, minimum. Parking a vehicle for extended periods of time is hard on parts. So parts that look & test ok in the original inspection tend to fail after they go back into service and start getting used again. And as far as "completely" checking "everything" out, 1st there are no tests you can run that will predict if a part is going to fail and if there was it would be completely cost prohibitive to run them on every system, part, seal & gasket in the car.

In a nutshell you spent 4k to get the car going, that's in the ball park. Now it needs another 1200...I'm sure it does, this is the 1st wave of failures. You CAN expect 3 to 4 move waves. It's not a guarantee but the odds are very high this is going to happen with this vehicle. It's not the tech or shops fault. It's not a case on incompentency. This is a car that has been sitting you want to put back on the road and this is what happens to cars that get parked for extended periods of time...

With this info you need to make a decision if you want to continue or not. If you want to "completely" go thru "everything" to make it all new so you don't have to deal with the waves, your probably looking at 100k & a year down time minimum....

You said money was no object so those are your 2 choices. You've (hopefully) cleared the biggest hurdles already but there will be a few more to go and then you should be good for while but at the end of the day you still have an older car and with any car....parts go out.
Your other option would be to "totally" restore the car top to bottom and that would take some serious money. You sound somewhat educated in your posts....You're honestly telling me that you really thought that 4k would completely restore a Porsche from top to bottom, frt to back....EVERYTHING??? Come on guy!

If you seriously believed that, you are completely out of touch with reality in the 21st century, maybe in the 60s you could got that price. Frt brks on a Beamer for just pads & rotors is close to grand......


You have some very narrow views that are probably best kept to yourself. Actually I think I would enjoy seeing you having to do some these "lost" jobs illegal aliens are doing.

Are you really that big of an authority of the Muslim religion ? Or just judging them of the actions of a few fanatics...

So I guess you are a "true" patriot.....Someone who loves his country while hating 90% of the people who live there?


Of coures I knew there would be waves of failures thats why the car was put on the road right away so the guy can test drive it like im sure all mechanics do...

1,200 hundred to finish the job and maybe expect more failures......There are plenty of these cars in very nice condition going from 2,500 to 6,000. So its definitely a lost cause. But maybe they mechanic should have made sure the engine ran and did some testing before pads????

Illegal Jobs,,,,, they have been done for 100's of years before this recent influx and were given the right shots and meds from birth to secure health...Today people are fine with people serving them food without any proper health protection....and we question TB and swine flu.....

Muslim are not recent fanatics they deeply believe in text that just does not apply to present day or changing times and sickly believe they will receive virgins at death??? Thats ???And strongly do not like other religions and want Islam to be #1. Sheeps in wolves clothing we are at war on their land, they are fighting on our soil to, but in a different way that takes advantage of the weakness and ignorance of our leaders and people today who are afraid to say anything to these people.

Its not racist to want law and order, an even tax paying system, and properly medically protected children in our schools and people who cook and handle our food....If people are arguing any rights in America or complaining at all then they are in the wrong place. Cause the so called people you want to protect practically keep women prisoners of life and zero compassion on human rights....

its the wild west again



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Aug 7, 2010, 1:17 PM

Post #23 of 30 (2314 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

I wont but bet another will. Virgins, Politics etc.

This is a car repair site free to use to anyone.

WE DON'T GET PAID - PERIOD!

You have totally experienced techs offering time for N/C!

Done!


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Aug 7, 2010, 1:29 PM

Post #24 of 30 (2309 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

I'm locking this thread. I've had enough of this idiot.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 7, 2010, 1:30 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Aug 7, 2010, 2:20 PM

Post #25 of 30 (2302 views)
  post locked   Re: What to do with this Mechanic???  

Aptly user named - go for it!

T









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