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Black Chevy
New User

Sep 24, 2010, 9:54 AM

Post #1 of 18 (1754 views)
Cold Air intake Sign In

Have a 1999 Chevy Cavalier Z24 installed a Cold Air ..would Like to no if Freeze up in are Cold -35 Canada Weather how Would It handle.....Thank You


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Sep 26, 2010, 8:23 AM

Post #2 of 18 (1743 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

Fuel "atomizes" and in just doing that get cold to make ice when it's hot so heat is necessary to add not take away! You don't want too much heat either as fuel would pre ignite.

Leave the engine the way it was designed. If some tricks worked it would be on it from new,

T



GTS 2.4
User

Oct 21, 2010, 12:43 PM

Post #3 of 18 (1715 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

To be honest I would be more worried about sucking up water into your cars engine if your CAI is located close to the ground. While your car is running and your engine is hot you shouldnt have any problems because the heat from the engine will keep everything dry. however when your engine cools down water could condense on top of (not really a problem) but also inside of the intake itself and freeze. if this happens you would get less airflow into your engine on start up and might wind up sucking a piece of ice into your engine as well. If you are going to mount an after market intake i would go with a SRI short ram intake. Itll be closer to your engine and further from the ground greatly decreasing the chances of getting water or ice into your engine.

As for the atomization thing. The cooling effect, if their is any at all, would be negligible or else radiators and intercoolers would have no purpose on cars. Also atomization, or the act of creating mist, is done so that the fuel is burned for thoroughly and efficiently it is not done to cool the engine.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 21, 2010, 12:53 PM

Post #4 of 18 (1710 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

A cold air intake is a worthless piece of plastic sold for the sole purpose of making the seller money. It will do nothing for your performance.

The theory behind it is cooler air can hold more fuel than warmer air but with a computerized car, the sensors will compensate and maintain a constant 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio at all times anyway so don't waste your money.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Sidom
Veteran / Moderator
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Oct 21, 2010, 2:11 PM

Post #5 of 18 (1703 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

I gave up trying to convince some these guys years ago..... Whether it's a cold air intake, K&N filter, split fires, whatever, you will never ever convince them their car doesn't run faster, perform better, get better gas mileage. Once they've drank the Kool-aid from the cup, it's all over.........lol


chickenhouse
Enthusiast

Oct 21, 2010, 5:52 PM

Post #6 of 18 (1694 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

It's all about advertising and packaging, nothing else. I could sell a new rotor for a Model A if I had advertising and packaging behind me.


speed
User

Oct 21, 2010, 10:25 PM

Post #7 of 18 (1689 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In


In Reply To
A cold air intake is a worthless piece of plastic sold for the sole purpose of making the seller money. It will do nothing for your performance.

The theory behind it is cooler air can hold more fuel than warmer air but with a computerized car, the sensors will compensate and maintain a constant 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio at all times anyway so don't waste your money.


so is there any applicatoin in which a cold air intake really does what its supposed ot do??!





GM ASEP 26 SCC Milford ASE certified in Brakes and Electrical on Thursday April 5th 2012


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 22, 2010, 2:29 AM

Post #8 of 18 (1685 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

Maybe in the old days with a carb and no 0/2 sensors but even then the carb jetting would have to be altered accordingly.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 23, 2010, 2:44 PM

Post #9 of 18 (1677 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

GTS: Quote: ">>As for the atomization thing. The cooling effect, if their is any at all, would be negligible or else radiators and inter coolers would have no purpose on cars. Also atomization, or the act of creating mist,<<"

**************

If the fuel isn't totally a vapor you are flooding out. Liquid gasoline is of no use for combustion. Yes - both carbs and FI make a mist first so it can evaporate quickly which is must. There's no power in liquid gas for an engine. It does NOT run on liquid mist droplets or would be blowing black smoke and have almost no power. That's why intake manifolds get HEAT to help speed up atomization or vaporization. Anything that evaporates makes cold (properly said - takes away heat) and on a hot humid day you can ice up an intake manifold.

Your body is evaporating liquid which takes away heat which is why we sweat. On a humid day it doesn't evaporate as fast so you feel hotter because you are.

This is the "Change of State" (not politics - science) -- Example - water at 32F can be either a liquid or a solid - imagine that? It takes two calories of engergy to change it either way and it's the same temp!

Understand that please,

T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 23, 2010, 2:48 PM

Post #10 of 18 (1668 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

Rule of thumb from my racing days. Cold air will hold more fuel than warm air. That's why we used to pack our fuel lines and intake manifold with ice before a run. The problem is that modern cars have computers that will over ride all that.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 23, 2010, 5:35 PM

Post #11 of 18 (1657 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

True and False: Cold air is naturally more dense so IF you can have fuel in vapor form in colder air it absolutely would have more ability. Computer in car can only maximize what it has available, not change it,

T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 23, 2010, 5:42 PM

Post #12 of 18 (1652 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

That's not what I'm saying. Cold air vs warm air can carry more fuel while still in vapor form. When I was racing my 340 I dropped a whole 1/2 second by simply moving the air intake from inside the engine compartment to outside where it grabbed cold outside air instead of heated engine compartment air. I could also grab a couple more tenths by packing the intake manifold in ice while getting ready and in staging. We used "cool can" that were insulated cans with the fuel line coiled inside that we filled with ice.

On the computer car though, the sensors will pick up on the extra fuel and lean out the pulse width to compensate for that.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 23, 2010, 5:46 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 23, 2010, 7:03 PM

Post #13 of 18 (1643 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

OK - well noticed that here and you've been here (cold country) cars have more HP in cold weather in general. My point was just that no matter what it must be a vapor (atomized) or it's a waste.

Noted with later engines vs all cast iron is that it takes no time for intake to be of a reasonable temp. Iron intakes used to "re-condense" vapor back to liquid such that a "choke" was used to cover that effect.

All of this gets solved by turbo and supercharging via compressing the air to be denser = more of it per sq ft than warm air big time depending on how much temp.

What also messes up the show is we are no longer buying pure octane (8th chain of carbon) in gasoline. What we get is so watered down (not real water) with junk which is just filler the potential is lost there too - in any engine.

That's a mess of a mix of science for what works best and world politics. Gasoline where I am suks. One gal should weigh about 6.8 lbs and can be 10% less! Rip off!

T



re-tired
Veteran / Moderator
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Oct 23, 2010, 11:33 PM

Post #14 of 18 (1634 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

I once workded a few years at a high performance custom 4x4 and rod shop. Once we did a performanmce workover on a late model k1500 4x4 . A ecm reprogramer ,. 3 " dual exhaust turbo flow mufflers ,cats stayed on. A cold air intake was installed along with a water mist injection system . With the programer we could change timing , shift points and fuel mixture ratio . We could also recalibrate the speedo for different tire sizes and gear ratios . The shop had a full chassis dyno and emmission tester and we tested each step . Everything made some improvement but it was the 'Package " that made it work .Passed 4 gas test. Bill was couple grand . So in my experiance a cold air will work ,, in FLA weather anyway. Not so much by itself but part of a bigger picture. IMO


LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Oct 24, 2010, 6:22 AM

Post #15 of 18 (1628 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In


Quote
So in my experiance a cold air will work ,, in FLA weather anyway. Not so much by itself but part of a bigger picture. IMO


What about when used on an emissions certified PCM system?



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Sidom
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Oct 24, 2010, 3:09 PM

Post #16 of 18 (1622 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

You know something RT, I like your input here. A lot of these things this is just my opinion.... I understand how most of these systems operate (to a small degree), I see what claims the they are saying their product does, do the math and it just doesn't add up. Granted I have never put these to the test simply because I don't have a dyno or the time.

I see their "numbers" but to me that's like the old accounting joke. A firm has narrowed the field 3. The 1st guys walking into the board room & on the board is 2+2=. They say finish the problem. He says 4. They say thank you we don't need you. Same for the 2nd guy. The 3rd guys walks in, they say finish the problem, he walks over shuts the door & says, what would you like it to equal???
Some of their claims sound a bit far fetch.

One thing I did see was one older cars pre computer. A lot of these things would have a positive effect but this was just due to it being a fixed system with a pre existing problem the part was countering. The one thing I do see on a regular basis and know it's just not the case any more is air filters. I think we all know what a partially plugged filter can do to an engine with a carb & no computer controls. Manufacturers would stress changing filter for performance and fuel economy and were absolutely right. Now with MAF systems and computer controls there has been a debate on what effect a partially clogged filter will have on a system. One side is old school and the other is no effect. What I see is no effect, I routinely see filters with dirt falling out of them when barely picked up, hit on the ground is huge cloud of dust. The cars have no codes, are in fuel control run and drive fine, they are just in for routine maintenance (and yes when it was slow and I had the time I would hook my Modis up check for codes, pending codes, look at a data stream and fuel trims). From what I see in my area, partially clogged filters has no effect on performance or fuel control, now if you let one get bad enough to block air flow is another thing but that is different than partially clogged ones that would effect pre OBD I carb engines...

I remember when Spilt fires where the big rage. At the time I use to work part time at a parts store. Some guys swore by these, it was like the miracle cure for their cars, then again, old chevys. Just so we would push them more the manager gave us all a set and I have to admit I was pretty curious after hearing all the talk but no way was gonna pay $6 a plug. I put them into my 94 Mits p/u with 90k on the clock and didn't notice anything performance wise or fuel but then again it was already running decent and this was by no means a scientific test.

I kind of like getting some independent info on these systems. This is a source I can trust and it sounds like the shop you worked at was doing it right. The one thing you guys did which I guarantee made the biggest difference was reprogamming. I'm pretty much a stock tech and haven't really got into the high pro side. My buddy has a 12 second Chevelle he runs down the 1/4 and is really into that. He has 95? Impala SS with an LT 350. He got one of those cheap reprogrammers for his model only.. No tests other than just driving the car around, you could actually feel a difference in power and shift points when he was changing the settings for fuel, timing and other points but of course then stoichio is out the window.....


K&Ns, split fires...I'm not buying it... Cold airs....I'll keep an open mind, I would be curious if you remember what the differences were, I know they would be small but any noticeable difference would mean something I suppose.....


(This post was edited by Sidom on Oct 24, 2010, 3:12 PM)


re-tired
Veteran / Moderator
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Oct 24, 2010, 7:25 PM

Post #17 of 18 (1610 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In

HT , you have a point . It was not a certified gas analyzer and Florida has never had emmision testing . We even calibrated the unit once a month ourselves. It was used mainly as a sales tool . We would get a bsaseline reading before and as we did mods we would do a run and show the customer he was getting something for his money . Sidom , I cant rember the readings , I have trouble remembering my passwords. As for the copies I had kept . They were on that heat transfer type paper that came in a roll. About a year later I had a a folder of blank paper. One recent example I can give is my sons 03 Dodge diesel dually turbo'ed and innercooled. . He tried a friends reprogrammer made just for diesel's.I saw the results myself or I would not have belived it. They advertized increasing HP by a third and doubing the torque. With the unit in the power mode, the truck would do burnouts for as long as the pedal was on the floor. This is a four door dually we're talking about. My son wanted to put a cold air intake on ,admittantly for looks .We made note of his average mpg readout before and 100 miles ltr.THe truck gained 3 mpg (2.7 to be exact).When in the economy mode mpg went up 4mpg . Granted modifing a diesel intake should show something , after all , it's 16 gulps of air compressed to one every stroke. Next i'm gettting one of dem TORNADO things that turns your aircleaner into a supercharger.Right after I finish installing the ceramic magnets that line up your fuel molecules. AngelicCoolCool


LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH


Sidom
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Oct 24, 2010, 10:04 PM

Post #18 of 18 (1608 views)
Re: Cold Air intake Sign In


In Reply To
Next i'm gettting one of dem TORNADO things that turns your aircleaner into a supercharger

Sly Sly.....my personal favorite....






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