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Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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John64
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Dec 11, 2011, 3:00 PM
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Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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Hello all. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me. It will be greatly appreciated.
1996 Mazda B3000, over 200k miles
Manual Transmission
Currently, I can not shift my truck while the engine is turned on. There is almost no pressure in the clutch pedal. I can turn the engine off, shift into gear and then turn it on and immediately go, but that is it.
What led up to this:
Back in July, my truck would make noise when I had the clutch pedal pressed. Every now and then, it would be hard to put it in gear. I took it to a mechanic and he replaced the clutch (and I lost all the money I was going to use to *finish* restoring/repairing my motorcycle). He drove it and said he couldn't reproduce the shifting problem. Afterwards, I didn't have the same problem shifting, but the clutch would catch very low in the "swing" of the pedal (within a few inches of moving away from the firewall). This was very different then the way it used to feel, but I just thought it was part of getting a new clutch.
Fast-forward a few months. I'm sitting at a drive-thru in first with the clutch pedal against the firewall and I can tell that it just shifted into 1st (engine sound and rpm drop). I just kicked on the clutch pedal and it started working better again. A few days later, the same thing happened (this time at a stop-light). Then the pedal went from catching within the first two inches to more of how it used to feel (gradually catching roughly 3/4ths of the way up). Then it got to where I couldn't shift at all. I took it to another mechanic (I now live 4 hours away from the first mechanic). He said that he tried to bleed it, but it was really hard and "felt like it was going to break" (I think he meant the bleeding screw, but I am not that knowledgeable about this.) He is holding it right now at his shop and I won't be able to look at it until tomorrow.
Doing some research (and calling the mechanic that replaced the clutch), it seems like the problem is with either the master cylinder or the slave.
Can you offer any advice on how to tell the difference on whether it is the master or slave? I live in an apartment complex and park in different places. It is difficult to see stains on the black asphalt.
Also, any advice on how to replace whichever would be greatly appreciated. I know that if it is the slave, then the transmission will have to be dropped. I am pretty adventurous when it comes to stuff like this, but most of what I see on the internet for this is "let the professionals handle it". I understand that, but the fact is, I don't have the money for the transmission to be dropped again.
Poor college student who greatly appreciates your help,
John H.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 11, 2011, 3:03 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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One of the 2 is leaking and a close examination will tell you which. To tell you the truth, you should change both at the same time. They usually fail in close proximity anyway.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 11, 2011, 5:13 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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Don't know how management of your apartment complex would react to someone dropping a transmission in the parking lot.
Your mechanic should of replaced the slave cylinder when he/she did the clutch job. If the slave is leaking or the problem, that should still be covered under warranty. Parts here were we live are covered for 1 year. All your first mechanic would have to do is submit a labor claim. That's unless your mechanic doesn't have a legit business.
Is the clutch reservoir low on fluid or have you had to add fluid?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 11, 2011, 5:20 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Dec 12, 2011, 8:41 AM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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Hmmm? Four hours from the first mechanic! Drop off and pick up later 16 hours of driving is too much for this IMO.
If this was just a bleeding not done well enough I would think the problem would be right then and there. Either master or slave could be at fault and bet it uses a flex hose too. Master or slave could fail without leaking but probably leaking.
If leaking it should leave evidence. Since it should be brake fluid it will wash off with plain water indicating that it's NOT oil from something else.
Apartment or not do you have the tools or access to what you might need to take a trans out?
T
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John64
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Dec 12, 2011, 5:06 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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@Discretesignals
Thank you for your reply.
Well, since the semester is over there is a lot of parking spots open. I'm hoping that (if this is something that I can do) I can convince the management to let me do it... maybe renewing my lease at the same time. =)
I tried to find the receipt from my first mechanic, but no luck (I was in the middle of moving at the time), so I can't say for sure that the slave was replaced. I might try and give him a call tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.
The clutch reservoir was empty when I took it to the current mechanic. (I talked to him today about it and he thinks it is the slave.)
--John
(This post was edited by John64 on Dec 12, 2011, 5:07 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 12, 2011, 5:12 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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Usually if the master is leaking you'll be able to look up under the dash where the clutch pedal rod goes through. If it is wet around there, master is leaking. If that isn't leaking, more than likely it is going to be the slave.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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John64
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Dec 12, 2011, 5:18 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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@Tom Greenleaf
Thank you for your reply.
I talked briefly with my current mechanic today and he said that the master cylinder was not leaking. It didn't seem like he found evidence of the slave leaking (yet), but there is no fluid in it currently (so it definitely came out somewhere).
I have a socket set and some other things, but nothing fancy. I'm not sure what is required, to be honest.
I am under the impression that most mechanics have some way to lift the vehicle to do something like this. I don't really have a anything like that. (I could drive the front tires up on a curb? lol)
Other than that, I am definitely willing to add tools to my toolbox (as long as it isn't too, too expensive).
--John
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 12, 2011, 6:03 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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You'll need to get the whole vehicle in the air to drop the transmission. Jack stands, floor jack, and transmission jack are going to be needed. You can't set jack stands on asphalt, so you'll have to do something like that on a concrete driveway or garage. If you have a couple of big strong guys, you might be able to manhandle it out without using a trans jack, but keep the floor jack underneath just in case.
You don't want to do it with the front wheels on the curb because one step is that you have to disconnect the drive shaft. Another reason is the transmission is a lot easier to get back in with the vehicle level.
What you should do is read over the steps and procedures to see if you want to tackle this job or not.
I remember doing my first tranny on my back in the driveway of my friend's house. We had a good time doing it and it is probably one of the factors that motivated me to pursue a career in the automotive field. The major important thing is safety. If in doubt about anything, check it out first. You have 2 tons sitting above you and safety is paramount.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 12, 2011, 6:15 PM)
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John64
Novice
Dec 13, 2011, 7:15 PM
Post #11 of 14
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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@Hammer Time
Thank you for your warning and concern.
I am thinking about renting a transmission jack and buying some jack stands.
Is not having a transmission jack the major factor that qualifies this project as "definitely not for [me]"? Are there other reasons?
Any insight about what I should look out for or be extra careful about would be greatly appreciated.
--John
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 13, 2011, 7:19 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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You do not have to reply to every post separately. We all read all posts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 13, 2011, 7:37 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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The M50D transmission probably weighs around 120-130 lbs.
The manual you have at home should have the basic steps for installing and removing the transmission. There is a lot of information online and help from experienced people to answer your questions.
Don't cheap out on the jack stands. Some of those stamped cheap Chinese stands I wouldn't trust to hold up my lawnmower.
The adapter on a floor jack may work. You'll need a second jack to hold up the back of the engine when the transmission is removed.
I wouldn't install a used slave from another vehicle on there. Your luck that one will leak also or the bearing is on its way out and you'll be back to pulling the transmission again. It's worth the extra money to get a new one.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Dec 13, 2011, 7:55 PM)
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John64
Novice
Dec 15, 2011, 5:46 PM
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Re: Won't Shift. Slave or Master Cylinder? (Manual Trans.)
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I don't think I have any more questions.
Thank you all so much! It means a lot to me.
--John
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