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Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 5, 2012, 7:59 PM
Post #1 of 29
(3165 views)
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Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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I decided to go ahead and change the transmission fluid and filter in the 2003 Sierra earlier. What is normally a simple procedure in most vehicles has me pissed off! The shift linkage bracket is in the way of dropping the pan. It's either that or an exhaust pipe. The linkage bracket is held on by a torx bolt. Problem is, the bit doesn't want to stay in there. I'm wondering if it was stripped by a previous owner. The exhaust nuts don't wanna come off. I tried loosening the transmission mount and raising it a few inches but to no avail. Any other ideas? I don't have a torch except for one for plumbing with mapp gas. Should I try and heat the exhaust bolts? I did coat them down with some blaster and figure I'll let em sit overnight. Hopefully they come off nice and easy in the morning but I doubt it.
I always change all the fluids when I purchase a used vehicle but this one may have me think twice next time!
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Sep 5, 2012, 8:22 PM
Post #2 of 29
(3152 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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Welcome to our world. Do you live in the rustbelt by chance? If you do, I guarantee you don't want to touch those exhaust bolts unless you just feel like you don't scream profanity loudly on a regular enough basis. I live in WI so the salt has motivated me to raise children whose vocabulary is much more colored than it should be from being in the shop. With those bolts I just torch them off to get the pipe out of the way. Most of the time you can't get a socket on whats left of the head anyway. Once the pipe is out I weld nuts onto the remaining part of the stud, heat the manifold flange to a nice glow with a torch, then use an impact on my welded bolt. You'll find religion fast because you're praying like hell the rest of the stud doesn't snap off flush. If you are fortunate not to live in the rustbelt, and the nuts have well defined edges still, you may get them off with a good soaking of PB Blaster like you did and heat from your MAPP torch. I tend to have less of them snap off with a 3/8 impact gun than a ratchet for some reason.
Are you dead certain you have the right sized torx bit in the bracket bolt? Can you visually see the head of it? Spray brake cleaner on it followed by blowing with compressed air. Dirt packs in them real easy and won't let you get in deep enough if you can't get it out. If it still rides out when cleaned out, Try the next size up bit. May need to gently tap it in with a hammer to get it to go in enough. Go back to finding religion while turning it as mentioned about.
When you do finally get it out, go drink heavily and swear to yourself you will never want to do that again.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 5, 2012, 10:06 PM
Post #3 of 29
(3133 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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Ha! I needed a good laugh! IL here so I'm in the Rustbelt. The exhaust bolts are still square so there could be hope. I have access to a welder at my hall but that's nowhere close to where the truck is now. I tried blowing air in the torx but was already pissed by that point. I had been messing with it for quite some time, it was dark, and I was laying on my back with tools gouging me in my back. I think I'll attempt cleaning the torx with a clear mind in the morning. To be honest, I looked at it with a mirror and it didn't look stripped. I bet you're right about dirt being packed in. Thanks for the tips and the humor!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 6, 2012, 3:31 AM
Post #4 of 29
(3121 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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Why are you even messing with that stuff?
Just drive it to a shop, hand the man $100 and tell him to hook up his machine and replace all the fluid. There is no benefit to dropping the pan. If the filter is plugged, then it's already too late for that transmission. The machine will replace ALL the fluid where dropping the pan will not.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 6, 2012, 5:12 AM
Post #5 of 29
(3114 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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MarineGrunt now (MG) if that's OK with you. Do use PB on anything everywhere you ever think you may need to remove later. A case of that stuff is better than what language classes you'll need as Nick so eloquently described. Then cover those areas with spray grease, brush in cap grease (Permatex Anti-seize) on exhaust things.
Do everything especially any fuel line flare nuts and lines, trans, brake EVERTHING - cable parts line hold down bolts and hardware. You'll love it later if there.
Transmission service: Can be done as HT says leaving it in place. You decide on the risk of breaking things to do it pan down or trust that full fluid change which is really better is the way for you. It's personal as I like to see inside the pans, clean them all up. Also like synthetics anywhere I can with hopes things will last near forever but almost 100% (less collisions) vehicles fail to general rust here.
That Torx bolt: Still clean that out and verify you have the right size. Some of those might have had an Allen head used on them. When it's down and dirty and one must be removed have some nice quality tools and hammer in what fits tight for the kill replace what didn't like that.
Heat: Mapp alone (not a plumber) is hot but not quite enough or fast enough. Oxy/Acet (to Rustbelters known as the BLUE WRENCH) you can get and target just what should be glowing hot fast and works. Of course a lot of thought on what is nearby with that heat.
All that crap just to get at what you need to do. Smile, whoever invented RUST and the MOSQUITO can stuff it!
Tom
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 6, 2012, 5:42 AM
Post #6 of 29
(3109 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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I unhooked the transmission cooler hose and completely flushed it. But, I do wish I would've taken it to a shop for this one! I didnt think itthe would be suchboring a pain in the ass. I've always been the type to do it myself if I can instead of paying someone else to do it. I also like knowing it was done and done right. I do need to find a good reputable shop for backup tho. When I took the truck to the dealership last week for diagnosis that was only the second time in my life I've ever taken any vehicle to a shop. I do know when this tranny needs flushed again it will be done by a shop!
Thanks forto the tipu Tom. Using anti seize on everything I take apart is a great tip. I'm going to start doing that. I use synthetic in everything.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 6, 2012, 6:07 AM
Post #7 of 29
(3106 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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Things don't have to be a dealer or independent shop. Just factor some costs of owning certain things vs how many times you would use it to pay off. Even when in biz (long retired) you calculate that. Did I ever need a $100,000 buck alignment machine and place? Could never have paid off in my own situation.
Special tools to deal with rounded nuts, bolts to "yikes" having to extract studs broken off you probably will get your money's worth out of,
Tom
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 6, 2012, 7:06 AM
Post #8 of 29
(3097 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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The one thing I like about working on my own stuff is that if I purchase new tools for a job it is still normally cheaper than taking it somewhere. Plus, I get new tools out of it. Well, I at least use that as an excuse to keep my wife from getting on me! If I need a certain specialty tool I don't have, or wont use much, we have a Carquest here in town that loans them out free of charge.
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Sep 6, 2012, 1:57 PM
Post #9 of 29
(3062 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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I have an Irwin bolt extractor set that grips the heads of rounded fasteners. Not too pricey and for being my neighbor one state over you will definately find them handy to have around. A smaller Tote-a-Torch type cutting setup that has smaller acetylene and 02 tanks would be a handy thing to have for what you do, and you don't go through a ton of gases with most DIY stuff so the smaller size of the tanks wouldn't be too bad. Check out Mississippi Welders Supply, Praxair or Airgas and see what they have. Had great luck with a Smith medium duty outfit and the torch even has a lifetime warranty.As far as welders, I always prefer 220 but if you only have 110 in your garage you can find some nice outfits from Miller, ESAB and Lincoln. Some can use both voltages so you can have the higher power if you get to a 220 source. Just don't tell the wife ANYTHING about how much you paid and get her some flowers to distract her.
Keep a good eye on pawn shops too. I see full sets of Snap-On stuff all the time for sometimes real cheap. Keep your eyes open for the Flank Drive wrenches especially. You'll thank me if you ever get a set, trust me. With the rust you deal with its the only way to go and I couldn't function without mine. Some good deals on that stuff on Craigslist, but keep an eye open as sometimes its crackheads selling stuff from a burglary and anything with serial numbers could cause you trouble.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 6, 2012, 7:37 PM
Post #11 of 29
(3043 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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I didn't need to hear that HT! Ouch!
Nick, I will definitely be picking up some of the tools you mentioned. I almost ran out and bought a torch setup a few hours ago! Not because I wanted it but because I needed it! I will never again attempt a transmission flush on this truck. It has been a freaking nightmare. After trying all morning to get the two torx bolts off and try the exhaust, I finally just cleaned up the pan in place. The front was tipped down enough to get inside and along the top in order to clean it up. There was also enough room to replace the filter. It wasn't easy by any means but doable. I filled it up and took it for a test drive. It lacked power so I knew something wasn't right. I dropped the pan again and looked inside with a mirror. I somehow broke the 1-2 shift solenoid. I figured I had to drop the pan to replace that so I started the gut wrenching processes all over again. So, I called my stepdad to borrow his torch but he is out of oxy. Crap. I tried heating again with mapp gas but to no avail. I then screwed with the torx bolts for another hour. I should've known that wasn't gonna happen. I just couldn't seem to get my hands in the right position while laying on my back. I then decided to take a closer look at the solenoid with a mirror. I then noticed the metal clip holding the solenoid in. I was able to remove the clip and pull out the solenoid. Carquest didn't have one in stock but it will be here in the morning. Hopefully all goes smooth tomorrow and the solenoid is the only issue. With my luck I wouldn't bet on it.
Well HT, you were right like usual. Next time I'll take it to a shop, hand the man a hundred dollar bill, sit on my butt, drink a pepsi, and look at a Playboy magazine while waiting. I never would've thought it would've been this much trouble. I think I'll blame the rusty exhaust bolts on Nick since the truck originated in Wisconsin.
I think I'll ask advice even before airing up a tire from now on.
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Sep 6, 2012, 7:46 PM
Post #12 of 29
(3041 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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Don't hold the bolts against me. I live in WI but I'm from Alaska originally. We don't use salt up there.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 6, 2012, 8:33 PM
Post #13 of 29
(3039 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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I think I'll move to Alaska just for that reason.
I was so pissed earlier I almost towed the truck to a muffler shop for all new exhaust just so I'd then be able ti get them off in order to pull the tranny pan. It's a good thing I live in a small town because if there was a muffler shop nearby I probably would've. It has a tiny hole in the muffler so it wouldn't have been for nothing. For being a Rustbelt truck I'm surprised the body and frame doesn't have more rust. It has some light surface rust on the rockers at the very bottom but is completely solid.
I'm off to bed. The back of my hands are torn up and my body is sore from laying under the truck all day. Thanks for sticking with me through all of my struggles. I'm looking forward to waking up in the morning and seeing HT say something like, "you idiot, next time don't be such a tight ass!" 
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 7, 2012, 11:53 AM
Post #15 of 29
(3004 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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Yes I did and for good reason!
I was able to get the shift solenoid by feeling around. Due to the space and my position, I wasn't able to get my hand in there and also look at the same time. I torqued the pan and filled er up. Ran it up to Carquest and had them clear the code. I'm so glad this adventure is over!
HT....think I should change the fuel filter on the truck now?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 7, 2012, 12:47 PM
Post #16 of 29
(3001 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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Changing a fuel filter is never a bad thing but see how new it looks to determine if it's really necessary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 7, 2012, 2:59 PM
Post #17 of 29
(2994 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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 That style on the frame underside? FLARE NUTS! Rust - PB the sucker now and change it later or you'll be fixing lines. This type suck with line stuck solid inside flare nuts. Use good real flare nut wrenches. Smile, not a good place to use torches
Well you can and then wont have to worry about any other problems,
Tom
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 7, 2012, 4:03 PM
Post #18 of 29
(2986 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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It looks original and also very rusty. Gonna soak her down overnight and see how it goes. I'm not forcing it tho! Are the nuts metric? I off to purchase some flare wrenches. I hate to buy some just for this buy don't want any headaches. Especially after what I went thru with the tranny. I'm sure they will come in handy with other stuff.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 7, 2012, 4:11 PM
Post #19 of 29
(2983 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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The nut is 16mm. I use a 5/8 flare wrench. The filter can be 20mm or 21mm.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 7, 2012, 7:01 PM
Post #20 of 29
(2974 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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Thanks HT.
Well, when it rains it pours. Luckily transmission is fine. No leaks. A little while ago I decided to take my boy to Steak n Shake for supper. It's about 20 miles away. It has been raining off and on all day. I pull into the parking lot and thought I noticed a spot up front. I get a few spots away and there wasn't. I threw it into reverse and backed into a spot about 75 feet back. When walking towards the door I noticed oil spots in the water. Of course the oil stops right where I stopped to throw it into reverse and makes a trail right to the truck. I look under the truck and and touch the droplets of fluid on the cross member. It's blue so I know it's the transfer case. We got home about a half hour ago so I jack it up and crawl under. It's hard to tell exactly where it's coming from although I'm guessing the seal. There is nothing on top or the upper half. There is fluid everywhere from where the driveshaft was throwing it around. The only other possible place would be where the case splits but I don't see it loosing that much fluid so fast. It was down exactly one quart.
It wasn't leaking before but I'm guessing when I raised the tranny a little trying to get the pan off it caused the leak. I don't know what else would cause it to start leaking that bad all of a sudden. It's a good thing I got the truck so cheap or else I would probably drive it off a cliff with me in it. Live and learn I guess. If it was throwing it out that fast I'd like to climb under and look to make sure where it's leaking from. Since it's the lower half I'm sure I'll be able to see it. Can I jack up the rear end, put it in gear, and take a look? I don't see why not but after the transmission ordeal I might even ask on here before I take a piss just to make sure I'm doing it right. Are there any other spots where these things are known to leak? Should I go to the dealership for a seal or does it matter?
Thanks again. Hopefully you all don't ban me from the forum due to being a pain in your ass!
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 7, 2012, 7:05 PM
Post #21 of 29
(2971 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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It could also be due to the fresh oil too. It's not always a smart thing to change trans fluid. The high detergent content can dislodge varnish and sludge that has been sealing leaks until now.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 7, 2012, 7:08 PM
Post #22 of 29
(2966 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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It's not the transmission that is leaking it's the transfer case.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Sep 7, 2012, 7:10 PM
Post #23 of 29
(2962 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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OK, my bad
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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MarineGrunt
Enthusiast
Sep 7, 2012, 8:36 PM
Post #24 of 29
(2957 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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I cleaned it up real good and hope to find the leak tomorrow. I'm pretty certain it's the rear seal. Is the rear seal pretty easy to replace? Any helpful tips? I'm sure I'll need some tools that I don't have. Would you mind letting me know which ones so I can be sure to get the loaner tools from Carquest before they close. I'm guessing I'll need a slide hammer to get the bearing but not sure what else if anything. Should I replace the bushing also?
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Sep 10, 2012, 4:24 PM
Post #25 of 29
(2911 views)
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Re: Trasmission fluid and filter change...dropping pan
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The rear seal of that shouldn't involve any bearing replacement or special tools. Take out the driveshaft, pop the seal off, put on the new one and go. They usually have a steel lip on the outside that a carefully used chisel can grab and you can pound it in a bit to break it away from the output end of the case. If you're in doubt where the oil is coming from, put some dye in it, set it on jackstands and put in in drive. Keep a black light shined on it and when you see the flourescent glow of the dye it will pinpoint the leak. Plus it makes white t-shirts look really cool.
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