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Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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GeanoZ
Novice
Oct 25, 2023, 1:45 PM
Post #1 of 13
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Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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Hey I'm Geano, I'm not a seasoned mechanic but I have decent knowledge of how things work... I have a 93 Dakota 3.9L LE 2X4.
So, I have minimum knowledge of what's behind the trans oil pump. I was going to try to replace the seal but I'm having trouble with that BUT I'm having more problems with a metal clacking sound like metal to metal in the transmission. I have seated this damn TC about 3x times already. I had the 3/16th‐1/8th air gap and everything. I slide the TC forward and stayed putting in the bolts. The truck actually ran GREAT for about 2 weeks and then a started hearing a small clicking sound... it was like every time I started my truck to drive somewhere the sound was getting louder and louder until it was a DEFINITE like something is wrong.
when I opened the TC I found at first 2 bits of metal... maybe a ring or something but when I looked online I couldn't find anything related. Then after unbolting Trans backing it out 3x times I kept making sure the TC was right and I believe it was. I took off the flex plate and I see there's damage where the bolts go but that's because 2 of them loosened up and flew out. I had to tap those.. I only have 3 bolts instead of 4 cause the whole hole I just don't have a bolt to fit if I tapped it bigger. Then after a test of things it was like the tighter I made it on flex plate the quieter it got but I'm afraid anymore right will break plate. My torque specs for this truck was 22.5lbs for TC bolts when I looked things up for my truck. Then after one of the test run I found metal shaving SHARP shavings just like 1 or 2 pieces in front of torque converter on bottom of trans case.
So far the fluid is clear nothing in it at all and nice color not burnt, I noticed wear on the input shaft on the back spindle the most and some on the front. I also see the seal is holding but it's definitely slow watery leak.. you can see where the fluid runs but it isn't pooling. I just know that seal in the pump is going and I want to replace it while I have everything apart.
ALSO! WHAT IS THIS SQUARE HEX LOOKING HOLE NEAR THE OIL PUMP?
Very confused anyone? PLEASE HELP I can't get to work till this is fixed.
I have plenty of pictures and a video of the knock but i DON'T KNOW HOW TO UPLOAD THEM! It takes me to some weird page where my login here doesn't work?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 25, 2023, 2:07 PM
Post #2 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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If you want to post a video just use a remote hosting site.
I'm a bit confused at the moment. It sounds like you only have 3 bolts holding the converter. You also said the bolts loosened up. When that happens it elongates the bolt holes and at that point the flex plate has to be replaced. That in itself will cause a noise. It's also very common for the flex plat to be bent little or the wrong bolts are used causing the bolts to make contact with the engine block which will also make a dramatic noise.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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GeanoZ
Novice
Oct 25, 2023, 2:49 PM
Post #3 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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You're right, 1 of the bolts I can't get back in. I think I used the right tap, the other bolts go in fine but this 1 hole got REALLY messed up. You can see the indent of the bolt in the flex plate. The torque converter looks fine, I flipped it over to drain the fluid and I see no metal anywhere. I'm just SO CONFUSED I can't find where metal is coming from in transmission. I started truck maybe 4 times trying to fix problem then immediately shut off soon as I hear a noise. Not every time there was metal. I also have the belt off the front so I know the noise is in-between back of engine and front of transmission. I have TC out, I seen no metal behind tc, just metal dust in casting which I understand that's normal and to clean off before done installing TC. I see a little wear on the first spindle but more in the second in the input shaft, But there is still good teeth in the spindle.
Transmission is fn GREAT in this truck super smooth so I doubted it was something passes oil pump but I was 3 seconds from taking pan off and taking it out.
OK SOOO I heard your suggesting about the flex plate. I put it on the ground and pushed it on the sides in a circular motion. On 1 side or rather 1/3 or 1/2 actually lifts up when on a flat surface maybe 3/16in - 1/8in. I believe that's the cause and this whole time I test the fn TC LIKE 4 TIMES. Because the truck when we put in TC the first time the truck ran GREAT for like 2 weeks then started hearing minor clicking sound. Every time I dive somewhere then started truck again it seemed to get louder and louder until i KNEW I had to tear apart trans again. So after everything I said and description do you think it's JUST the flex plate and nothing more?
BTW I used a rap on the holes and dies for the bolts to retread everything. But I'm planning on buying a new plate and bolts. My plate takes 4 but currently I could only put on 3. I was told 3 would hold it but it would need to be fixed later down road before plate breaks.
Thanks for your help/ suggestions
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 25, 2023, 2:59 PM
Post #4 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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I told you where the noise is coming from. Stop messing around with this thing and replace the flex plate and the converter if those threads are still messed it. Get 4 new bolts from the dealer. When you're putting it back together make the nothing is contacting any inspection covers.
If you do a close inspection you will probably find the flex plate has a crack in it too.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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GeanoZ
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Oct 25, 2023, 3:06 PM
Post #5 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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Every time I did a test run I had transmission to the engine and the starter secured and the inspection plate off. It was still meshing a bad tapping noise. I already am going to replace the bolts and the flex plate because of what you told me was very very helpful. I'm just asking do you think that's all the problems I have. I am taking it serious, I love this truck and want to keep it running without causing further damage. That's why I explained everything else so you could say it's a definite. I appreciate your time and trying to help me. I was very confused about this and have been scratching my head for 3 days.
The TC I just got and I tapped the 4 holes. Would it be OK to get the plate and the bolts and if the bolts go into the tc all 4 I don't need to replace... or are you telling me I'm going to have to replace the TC again no matter what.
(This post was edited by GeanoZ on Oct 25, 2023, 3:08 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 25, 2023, 3:27 PM
Post #6 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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You only need the TC if you can't satisfactorily repair the threads. The bolts have to be very tight.
I'm confident all your issues are external to the transmission. Make sure you have the correct TC.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 25, 2023, 3:28 PM)
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GeanoZ
Novice
Oct 25, 2023, 3:42 PM
Post #7 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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I have a 93 Dakota 3.9l w/ 42RE/A500 trans. (A500 Trans.; 11" Outside Diameter, 4 Mounting Pads, 26 Spline, Codes: White Sticker, 853)
I bought a: Pro-King Automatic Transmission Remanufactured Torque Converter which said was an exact fit from advanced auto.
The truck ran for 2 weeks no issues until that noise started. I believe you saved me from an expensive fix. Thank you so much, I'll let you know how things go. Truly appreciate you and have an amazing day/ night. You truly helped me so much I can not thank you enough. I found a plate for $50 and bolts for $12 for a500. If the bolts give me issues I'll replace the TC again.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 25, 2023, 3:45 PM
Post #8 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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You're welcome.
Don't tighten any of the bolts until you have all four started. That's how you get in trouble with the threads.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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GeanoZ
Novice
Oct 25, 2023, 4:16 PM
Post #9 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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If correct from what I found on internet. I need to hand tighten them first and in a star pattern? So I think if I hand tighten #1 I hand tighten #3 then #2 then #4.
Then if I'm correct(I'm extremely unsure about this part with the torque specs)
I'm being told go 20lbs after hand tighten then 40lbs then 60lbs. However(not sure at all) when I looked up my truck it said torque specs for converter was only 22.5lbs.
I'm glad you brought this up cause I forgot about this problem.
Also with seating torque converter I should hear two "thunks" kinda noise and keep shaking/ twisting till it goes over 1st great on input shaft and then the 2nd. Someone told me I should hear 3 "thunks" but, I could never get it to do 3 just the 2.
After seated and have air gap of 1/8 - 3/16 you slide TC forward to put bolts in. I'm wondering tho if I pull it forward to bolt right to flex plate won't that take it out the trans oil pump?
(This post was edited by GeanoZ on Oct 25, 2023, 4:19 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 25, 2023, 4:55 PM
Post #10 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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You shouldn't have to pull it forward more than 1/8". It won't pull it too far. It's not fully seated until the entire unit is below the edge of the bellhousing and it doesn't rock side to side. It should be pretty obvious when it's fully seated.
Just bring the bolts down but not tight at all. The thing is the converter still need to be able to move to line up the threads for the remaining bolts without cross threading them.
The torque spec for the bolts is 55PSI
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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GeanoZ
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Oct 25, 2023, 5:17 PM
Post #11 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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I'll keep that in mind, maybe I need a spacer just in case? I hear they have spaces for TCS.
I say that because when I bolted it before it went from almost 3/16th to under 1/8in. It would bring the TC ask the way to the flex plate.
I will take everything you said seriously and use that knowledge to fix my truck. Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes.
It could had just been my bolts, I see a lot of TC bolts with some kind of "loctite material" I should probably get bolts with that material in the middle. I think you have answered all my questions and problems. Thank you again. I'll figure the rest out, I know exactly how it should be and 55lbs if torque awesome. I think I will get a new torque wrench that's digital. I'm using a manual torque wrench that's mad old and I think it's giving me the wrong readings.
Alright have a good one.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Oct 25, 2023, 5:19 PM
Post #12 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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Definitely NO to any spacers. The TC has to bolt directly to the flexplate.
Don't worry about the gap. It will be fine.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Oct 25, 2023, 5:20 PM)
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GeanoZ
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Oct 25, 2023, 6:21 PM
Post #13 of 13
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Re: Just replaced bad TC but now I hear bad knocking
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Roger that! No spacers, got it. I hear everything you've said and I will do everything you suggested and take your advice 100%.
This is way better than paying a mechanic like 3k for a Tc and flex plate replacement.
I hope many good fortunes find their way to you and have a great night.
I'll let you know how things go in a couple days. Thanks again 👍
(This post was edited by GeanoZ on Oct 25, 2023, 6:22 PM)
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