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Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback


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Lverano
User

Feb 5, 2016, 4:22 PM

Post #1 of 22 (1557 views)
Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

I believe I installed wrong size o-ring in the groove of my Subaru Outback transmission input shaft. The o-ring was a little big and did not fit snug. I drove the car for a while with no problems at all, then all of a sudden all gears except 1st and second went bye bye. I didn't realize such a little o-ring would create such problems. How is this possible? What does that little o-ring actually do?
2001 Subaru Outback VDC H6


gsferraro
Enthusiast

Feb 5, 2016, 4:57 PM

Post #2 of 22 (1536 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

Hello,
Question, do you have reverse? Also, what was done to the trans?


(This post was edited by gsferraro on Feb 5, 2016, 5:02 PM)


Lverano
User

Feb 5, 2016, 7:37 PM

Post #3 of 22 (1528 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

I had the motor out cause I did a motor swap. The transmission was good. I replaced the o-ring while the motor was out. Yes, I have reverse. Thanks for the reply.


gsferraro
Enthusiast

Feb 6, 2016, 4:25 AM

Post #4 of 22 (1494 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

Ok, when this shifts to 3rd, does it rev up like its in neutral or does the trans just stay in 2nd? The o ring on the input shaft is used for torque converter clutch application. Are there any codes present for the trans? How long did you drive this car for before issues with the trans?


Lverano
User

Feb 6, 2016, 8:49 AM

Post #5 of 22 (1488 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

It revs like it's in neutral in 3rd gear or higher. You can drive it really slow, but as soon as you try to go above 25 or 30mph it just revs. I drove it home with the automatic shifter in 2nd gear. The car drove perfect for about 20 miles. I stopped at a light and it stalled out. When I started it back up all gears except 1 and 2 (and reverse) were missing when I took off. I didn't check the code. Check engine light went off. I can say for sure the o-ring on the input shaft was very loose and not tight fitting when I installed it. Out of that 20 mile drive, most of it was in the city at slow speeds.


(This post was edited by Lverano on Feb 6, 2016, 9:17 AM)


gsferraro
Enthusiast

Feb 6, 2016, 9:16 AM

Post #6 of 22 (1484 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

This possibly could be caused by a few issues. I will explain how this trans works. First, this unit called the 4EAT, has the same design as a nissan pathfinder(say a 2002 model year), inside the trans pump there is whats called a pump slide and a pump slide actuator. The pump slide moves to increase pump pressure when it goes into the higher gears or when higher pressure is called for. The pump slide actuator is constanly moving back and fourth, by doing this it develops burrs and sticks in the low pressure positon causing the high clutch to burn out due to lack of pressure to keep the clutch applied.

Now im not sure if a subaru has this, but another issue that can cause what your feeling is a stuck WOT(wide open throttle)switch. A stuck WOT switch will cause the solenoid to become energized before the 2-3 shift takes place causing a cut-loose or over-speed on the 2-3 shift. Pull the dipstick out and see if the fluid smells burnt. Gary


Lverano
User

Feb 6, 2016, 9:21 AM

Post #7 of 22 (1482 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

not sure what any of that has to do with an o-ring, is what you are saying a result of the o-ring being the wrong size? The transmission was perfect prior to installing the wrong size input shaft o-ring. It's as simple as that. If there is fluid blowing past the o-ring when it should not be, then what happens? That's my question. Thanks for your help.


gsferraro
Enthusiast

Feb 6, 2016, 11:46 AM

Post #8 of 22 (1468 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

The o ring is for torque converter clutch application or the lock-up function the transmission has. Lock-up is when the transmission locks to engine rotation and you would get around a 200 rpm drop, with the o-ring not there or broken the converter cannot lock-up. Almost every automatic transmission that has the lock-up function takes an o-ring on the input shaft, with the o-ring left out trans cannot lock-up. Lock-up comes in around 45mph, with the function not working, the trans will produce a trouble code and run hotter than normal.


(This post was edited by gsferraro on Feb 6, 2016, 11:59 AM)


Lverano
User

Feb 6, 2016, 12:04 PM

Post #9 of 22 (1466 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

Does this somehow contribute or translate to no gears like I've described? Is that possible? Thanks, Lester.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Feb 7, 2016, 8:35 AM

Post #10 of 22 (1427 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

I'd say if you installed the incorrect o ring, you should take it back apart and install the correct o ring. Then see how it operates. If it works fine after that, you'll know your answer. Either way it should have the correct o ring installed for proper TCC operation.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 7, 2016, 8:36 AM)


gsferraro
Enthusiast

Feb 7, 2016, 10:07 AM

Post #11 of 22 (1418 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

If it feels like it goes into neutral when shifting to 3rd gear, i would think you have a 3rd clutch problem, the o-ring seals the torque converter circuit does not seal the 3rd clutch circuit.


Lverano
User

Feb 7, 2016, 12:42 PM

Post #12 of 22 (1411 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

Yep that mission will be started in the upcoming week. (Replacing o-ring)


(This post was edited by Lverano on Feb 7, 2016, 12:47 PM)


Lverano
User

Feb 7, 2016, 12:46 PM

Post #13 of 22 (1410 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In


In Reply To
If it feels like it goes into neutral when shifting to 3rd gear, i would think you have a 3rd clutch problem, the o-ring seals the torque converter circuit does not seal the 3rd clutch circuit.


I'm just going to replace the o-ring. I know I seated the torque converter correctly. I know the shaft I pulled out at one point, and then slid it back in all the way by hand until I couldn't turn it by hand. I don't know if that had to be finessed a certain way similar to how the torque is seated. I'm very fresh and new to learning about transmissions. Appreciate the help. I'm sure this forum will come in handy for someone.


gsferraro
Enthusiast

Feb 7, 2016, 12:50 PM

Post #14 of 22 (1403 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

Can you please let us know how it goes


Lverano
User

Feb 7, 2016, 2:07 PM

Post #15 of 22 (1395 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In


In Reply To
Can you please let us know how it goes


Yes. It might be a week or more. I May post a test drive YouTube video or something. Keep me posted.


Lverano
User

Feb 10, 2016, 3:44 PM

Post #16 of 22 (1378 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

Did a cold start today and no gears at all.... I'm beginning to wonder what an o-ring is really gonna do for that....


Lverano
User

Feb 13, 2016, 6:46 PM

Post #17 of 22 (1344 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

(links not allowed especially to another site)
You've had Gary's attention on this to check and do things all along. You know you screwed up and blew this transmission already don't you?
T


(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Feb 14, 2016, 12:54 AM)


Lverano
User

Feb 14, 2016, 8:52 AM

Post #18 of 22 (1324 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

 Well ironically the O-ring was absolutely fine, and as a matter fact it did just what I thought it would do, it got compressed and it ended up sitting beautifully inside the groove on the input shaft.

Unfortunately early in the process of removing my engine, which was the first time I've ever removed an engine, I forgot to unbolt the torque converter. So as it happened about a year ago at the beginning of this project, I was pulling the engine for the first time. I ended up dropping the weight of the engine on the end of the input shaft accidentally, while the torque converter was still bolted to the flexplate. I thought I might've caused some damage, but I ended up convincing myself I got away with it.

I'll try to add a picture of the carnage. So what happened is the metal casing inside of the transmission got cracked. This explains why my car was driving so great initially on my test drive, it was initially just a crack, but ultimately the crack spread until the shaft casing snapped clean off and the rest is history.

I'm not really sure what part is cracked. it looks like a different kind of metal. I also wouldn't be surprised if all the damage was from when I bolted the engine to the transmission bell housing without having the torque converter fully seated, which is a well know way to crack the oil pump/ oil pump body/housing.


(This post was edited by Lverano on Feb 14, 2016, 9:01 AM)


Lverano
User

Feb 14, 2016, 9:07 AM

Post #19 of 22 (1319 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

Yes, T, but not 100%. Maybe like 70% sure, but so hoping that everything was ok that it came down to being only like 20% thinking things were
Screwed.
(changed a word not allowed


(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Feb 14, 2016, 9:13 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 14, 2016, 9:16 AM

Post #20 of 22 (1314 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

OK - Bummer. Wait for Gary to see if you can get out of this or another core at least needed? I know about what you did to smash it just haven't done that.
Please don't use properly spelled "bad" words. I changed it so something more PG rated.


Family friendly site please no matter how frustrated we can get,


Tom



Lverano
User

Feb 14, 2016, 2:50 PM

Post #21 of 22 (1304 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

nah, it's over for the Subie. I promised no more money was going in it. It's got rust, and that's the only reason i'm not searching out a used VDC transmission on ebay right now and moving forward. I am confident I could definitely do it, but it's just not worth it. I'm going to find a better donor car that needs, or will be needing a good engine. The JDM I have is ready and waiting when needed.

I'm not frustrated. I'm satisfied. I pretty much taught myself how to completely swap an engine, and besides destroying my transmission, which I would not do again, I did everything perfectly on my first try. I learned a heck of a lot. The car is a 2001 with 176,000 miles. The transmission could have gone a lot longer, but screwing it was the price of admission for a semester in 101 mechanics, school of hard knocks style.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Feb 14, 2016, 4:55 PM

Post #22 of 22 (1295 views)
Re: Input shaft o-ring wrong size and now I have trouble Subaru Outback Sign In

Glad you've made up you mind on the car as a whole anyway and sorry a lesson learned had to be such a critical one.


Good luck with your next car and project,


T







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