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Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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PACNOR-RUNNER
Novice
May 7, 2019, 9:24 AM
Post #1 of 10
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Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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2001 Toyota Camry
105K miles
4 cylinder
Got car from family member at 80K, previous reports of proper maintenance turn out to be wrong. This may be first fluid change (@ mile 105 K) ever.
Current problem:
Confused about transmission fluid level so I'm not driving it for now.
When cold, fluid shows as too high (too high makes some sense if you read background below). It's a bit below the "hot mark" when cold. Fluid (went black again) is very obvious, very easy to see, clearly demarcated. Not so when hot which is the reason for this post.
When running the engine and checking at 2, 5, and 10 minute intervals, fluid can be observed with each check growing increasingly thin and the stick ends up DRY with only the slightest very thin streaking along the very edge of the dipstick. Where is it going?
Comparing to my sons Corolla, his car- the fluid is nice pale red, in the appropriate "cold" spot on the dipstick and then moves up the stick to the appropriate "hot" zone over several minutes. All very visible, very good coverage of the stick, nothing looks dry at all, clearly demarcated.
Question is why would there be too much fluid when cold and then it all seems to vanish when hot? Shouldn't it simply move way up the dipstick vs disappearing?
BIGGEST FEAR is that too much fluid caused fluid to bust through something when hot, maybe going somewhere it shouldn't and it's unable to stay in ciculation. I don't know enough about cars to know if this is even a real possibility.
Do additives interfere with reading fluid when hot? Is my dipstick bent in a way that prevents accurate reading when hot? Any ideas?
Background:
Dropped the pan and replaced filter, pan back on. Mistakenly put only 2 quarts of trans fluid in. Drove 30 miles around town and there was slippage. Added 1/2 bottle of Lucas Trans Slippage Product. Then realized I was a short on actual trans fluid so added it. So that is why it registers as high. Drove for 3 weeks, rare slippage but prior to change there had been zero. Never observed any fluid on the ground, I was looking for any that might drip out. Pale concrete nice and clean. Checked fluid a few days ago and got the current problem described above.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 7, 2019, 2:53 PM
Post #2 of 10
(2533 views)
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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Site has a trans specialist please wait for his reply > gsferraro < is his user name.
Still, you know this is trouble just I'll try to contain a worse problem. Check engine coolant as in RIGHT NOW! If this is mixing with antifreeze it may not show anything wrong yet if mixing in radiator. If that's all mess up or can't hold pressure for a cooling system check AND you see trans cooler lines used in engine coolant radiator end tanks commonly done they QUIT driving it totally!
Those two oil and antifreeze will just be a horror show if mixing find out or get help don't end up needing both an engine and a trans job,
T
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PACNOR-RUNNER
Novice
May 7, 2019, 3:57 PM
Post #3 of 10
(2526 views)
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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Thank you. I am researching this now and will look in my radiator and coolant reservoir tonight.
Does my 2001 Camry have a transmission cooler? What are likely places trans fluid would push into the coolant system?
Thanks again.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 7, 2019, 4:21 PM
Post #4 of 10
(2518 views)
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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Yes - You have a trans fluid cooler. If guess I'd find out it's done two different ways in THAT one so not going to. When if trans fluid (an oil) and coolant (part water, part a just other for now) mix you get like a milk shake with a color not clear to see thru for either on their own. That's a disaster for trans if that way usually trouble for engine's rubber parts - hoses, seals for coolant etc. in trouble if not caught. Please check and just wait for Gary or the specialist. If this goes on without him for a day or more others will make suggestions too. Sorry - trying to be concise so not too much to read for the specialist, T (sorry saw my own typos above just read thru those)
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PACNOR-RUNNER
Novice
May 8, 2019, 1:44 PM
Post #5 of 10
(2503 views)
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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Thanks again. I removed the radiator cap. It all looks good and uncontaminated. Maybe contamination at the bottom where I can't see it? Engine oil dipstick looks good. Engine oil cap looks ok. Trans fluid dipstick looks uncontaminated (when I can see it ie cold). Coolant reservoir looks fine.
If I am in early stages of contamination do I have to pull hoses out of the bottom of radiator to detect it or is it obvious right away by looking through the top where the cap is?
Is the trans fluid cooler inside the radiator or mounted ouside and is that a good place to try and inspect?
Much appreciated!
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PACNOR-RUNNER
Novice
May 8, 2019, 1:49 PM
Post #6 of 10
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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Thank you. Radiator cap removed and fluid looks uncontaminated. Coolant reservoir looks good. Engine oil cap looks uncontaminated. Engine oil dispstick looks fine. When cold, Trans oil on dipstick looks fine (well, black but not contaminated).
Do I have to pull tubes out of the bottom of radiator to detect early contamination or would it be obvious right away through the cap at the top?
Thanks again
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 8, 2019, 2:16 PM
Post #7 of 10
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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OK: Trans fluid (special oil) doesn't mix with water based coolants BUT when it's there a water pump is like a kitchen blender it would stay really whacked looking. That means for engine isn't involved. Black trans oil said up top is a killer sign as in it really should never be called that or use the word slipping if fluid can stay right. If trashed it can't it's clogging up higher than any set level known right can't pump that they'll slip. That's game over IMO still want Gary to say that and what to do if anything to minimize the almost certain reality it's blown!
That isn't the end all it might have worn such that it's not good for rebuilding job means another just old that can take being done adds to costs. You didn't want to hear that I'm sure. Wait for Gary a bit longer this site is volunteers only some more time than others,
Tom
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PACNOR-RUNNER
Novice
May 8, 2019, 5:48 PM
Post #8 of 10
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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Thanks, Im having a hard time understanding your reply. Do you mean you think the head gasket is blown? Or the transmission is blown? Your reply makes it sounds like things are very bad but I thought things were not so bad since all fluids don't seem to have coolant mixed in with them.
I do know the black trans fluid is not good.
Thanks for the help.
Hopefully the expert can tell me where this trans fluid is going when it gets hot. It does all seem to go BACK to the pan though when it's cold. Same old easy to read level when cold. I think it might not drain back to the pan if it had intruded into other parts.
Do you think I should pull hoses at bottom of radiator to look for goop?
Thanks again
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 8, 2019, 6:38 PM
Post #9 of 10
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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I wanted to be short now a couple days this is stuck. So, just know an oil based fluid you called "black" is burnt. No real difference than burning a cooking oil, butter in a trying pan that's too hot. Transmission's and fluids do NOT like being too hot so it's cooled somewhere in or in front of the engine's radiator or both if added cooling.
The heat is friction of slipping a transmission (auto) isn't supposed to stay slipping just enough to be smooth for shifting. Certainly NOT when working hard.
Then the fluid is so useless no telling if it made fudge somewhere clogging things up doesn't drain back as it's using the same stuff all the time just recirculating it like a cooling system returns hot back to an engine cooled again.
The relationship is they are attached to each other so they share some space and things but really aren't a single unit.
I can't think of a reason for black or burnt fluids in a vehicle of any sort that doesn't mean a failure.
It's OK if you know this car and it's basically OK otherwise so you just get it rebuilt, check things routinely just anyway this thing isn't near new in years just try to know as much as you can where wearing things stand and make your own history on it.
Just one more for now to lighten the load now a mess of words. If you get a nice job done with a trans in a car this old and expect to have it for much longer it's a huge thing out of the way YOU benefit from it being done now it still needs to be 100% verified in person not on the web.
What stinks is (IMO now) is having a huge expense when you need to sell it.
*****************************
If you want you can just click on my name or > gsferraro < the trans guy "Gary" you get a page with a choice to send a private message is about like being off a site isn't viewable to public like this is. OK?
Tom
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gsferraro
Veteran
May 11, 2019, 8:29 AM
Post #10 of 10
(2441 views)
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Re: Disappearing and reappearing trans fluid 01 Camry
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Hello,
Sorry for late reply, my shop is packed. The only thing i can think of is when cold and you start it, you may have drainback, thas why it reads high on the stick. When you check fluid level when hot are you looking at both sides of the stick? If the dipstick is dry, then there has to be some kind of a leak. If you fill it, and check it a few days later, it's low again? Gary
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