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Clutch Pedal Goes To Floor
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ironworker1143
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Dec 19, 2008, 10:57 AM
Post #1 of 21
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Clutch Pedal Goes To Floor
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Can someone help me,
I have a 1987 Chev 4x4 Standard...It is my Plow truck only used in my Large yard. A few years back there was a new clutch installed and both slave cylinders replaced also. Two nites ago I plowed my yard...had no problems plowing , worked great.It was very mild out. Today i went out to plow and when I got in truck the clutch petal went right to the floor with no effort at all....Nothing there....I had left the truck in Nutrel with blade down, so truck would start easy. Maybe in is Froze from cold weather ????Not Sure
Could the clutch be froze in nutrel? or maybe cable broke....I think I would have felt something break??
Any advise from anyone this problem??
THank you very much,
Ironworker
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 19, 2008, 12:12 PM
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Re: Clutch Pedal Goes To Floor
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Hmmm? I think the master cylinder is what helps the pedal back up and if it's behaving like clutch is pushed down then it must be jammed - either inside that or possible slave or some other exposed gadget to ice. I'm near certain if this is stuck from just "pack" ice/snow then running the engine and the heat will win out and it would work again.
Can you pull on on the pedal and have it work? It would be tricky as all get out but this year might start up in gear so you could hit and go if your good - not for the timid.
Again - if some funky ice jam engine heat should fix it. Try some time with engine off too as heat accumulates underhood and all the items better without the fan going for radiator.
Good luck. I'll be out in that crap with mine - bit newer and automatic later on tonite!
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Dec 19, 2008, 12:14 PM)
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ironworker1143
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Dec 19, 2008, 3:10 PM
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THanks Tom for your Help,
I ran the engine for over 1/2 hr still no luck.We had a very cold nite/day here with high wind chill. I think that my best bet is to get inlaws tractor to help get it in my garage in morning. Hopefully with the heat on in there.it will thaw in a few hrs ruling out cable broke and other things. Fluid level is perfect so guess no leaks. Worked great along. Iam no cracker jack when it comes to repairs .
Again thanks for you time . and will let u know how things turn out.
Merry X-mas, Thank You
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 19, 2008, 3:34 PM
Post #4 of 21
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Ironworker; Sorry, but no cables. It is hydraulic. Look under the dash and see if the pushrod from the clutch pedal is still in place (going into the rear of the master cylinder). I've seen those fall off of the pedal, and seen the pedal assys. break, also. Look for a crack in the pedal assy. Check the fluid in the master cylinder. Make sure it's full.
Loren
SW Washington
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ironworker1143
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Dec 19, 2008, 3:52 PM
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Re: Clutch Pedal Goes To Floor
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Thanks....I will look under dash and yes >>>Dummie Here<<<< I was wrong in saying a cable broke...>>>Your 100% correct,
THank You
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ironworker1143
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Dec 19, 2008, 5:51 PM
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Re: Clutch Pedal Goes To Floor
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Sorry to bother u again...It is dark out had a light but everything seems ok...I THINK....The pedal is all in tack..looks like new...no cracks etc The shaft goes in and out very easy in the Master.Can move petal with my hand in and out I poured aliitle warm water over it ,no luck. Fluids are up...wonder if its the slave thats froze...Its just a bummer I can't plow my driveway
Thanks for any help
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 19, 2008, 5:57 PM
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Gosh; I can't think of anything else for you to look at. Hopefully, it'll thaw out and be just fine? If you send Tom some food for Kitty, maybe, he'll come over and plow your yard for ya? When you pull the pedal back, by hand, does there seem to be any resistance at all when you depress the pedal? Is it possible that the master cylinder took a dump?
Loren
SW Washington
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ironworker1143
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Dec 19, 2008, 6:57 PM
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Re: Clutch Pedal Goes To Floor
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Master Could be gone ...Goes in and out very easy with my hand with no resistance . It was working so good....but u know more then me...o-rings etc could be gone and need new kit..or Master
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 19, 2008, 7:11 PM
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>>....but u know more then me...<< LOL. Thanks for the vote of confidence, but... Just giving you some ideas.
I'm certain that you'll get to the bottom of it. Have a great weekend.
Loren
SW Washington
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2008, 12:16 AM
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Question and thought on clutch master cyl:
Doesn't that have a STRONG spring to return clutch or at least part of the plan? I think some vehicles will return clutch pedal even if unhooked so don't know for this one.
Not many standards ever in my stable but brake master cylinders (same concept) have a strong spring as noted by bench bleeding them!
You can't sell standards (transmissions) in Massachusetts as most folks here have trouble figuring out which end of a vehicle is the front never mind making a decision on what gear it should be in -LMAO! Heck - you get put on Prozac if there isn't a CVS and a Dunkin Donuts at each intersection! How's that for bashing my own state?
'Nuff joking: If pedal can't come back up and is hooked up properly I'd blame that master cyl. Try one new for the resistance - I'm sure it's sprung pretty hard to return - right? Pressure plate would push back just so far but full return probably relies on the master. Still would think it might just pull up by hand and work once perhaps but not sure on that??
Good luck,
T
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ironworker1143
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Dec 20, 2008, 6:22 AM
Post #11 of 21
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Re: Clutch Pedal Goes To Floor
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Tom,
The petal works in and out, springs back easy all the way as it always has , nothing broke there i think.. It does not stay or stick to the floor...It just there is no pressure exerted from petal to hydraulics to make clutch pressure plate work in the trans. I know they are a bugger to bleed out...Guess its the master or slave or possible a leak>>>>BUMMER BUMMER. Have to get my bubby to help ..Hes a cracker Jack>>LOL...His name is Jack also...LMAO....Hes a lover of chev's 4x4 1987 and down .Just I hate to bug him near x-mas
Again Thanks,
Any comments are of great help to me
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2008, 8:34 AM
Post #12 of 21
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Ok: Let's refresh this as I know it:
Clutch pedal goes to floor and nothing happens? This suggests that it's also engaged - meaning if you are in gear it will move with pedal to floor if engine is cranked AND right now it won't shift into a gear if running but may grind rather handlily if you try reverse like a "Sammy Stud Snapper?"
Default if linkage of any kind failed should be an ENGAGED clutch. With this scenario the truck would start in gear with clutch pushed to floor enabling starter thru a happy safety switch that does't know better and take off.......
IS THIS WHAT'S HAPPENING?
Tom
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ironworker1143
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Dec 20, 2008, 10:34 AM
Post #13 of 21
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Tom ur a smart guy,
The truck will start....Had a good look at everything today in daylight....Looked more closely...There is fluid on the line that goes from the master to the slave...So I can almost guess thats the problem....You know how fussy they are bleeding out....Little air pocket no way it will work..Now Might have to order From GM to replace line...I live in Canada so not sure if I can get a aftermarket.
You Guys have been Great,
Merry x-mas to all
BIG STORM ON WAY>>BUMMER>>LOL
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 20, 2008, 11:29 AM
Post #14 of 21
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Ok; Now I got it. Was just in touch with Loren off site about this too! What you could do in a jam as I think the flex hose gave out is get a ton of regular line - and put same threaded fitting in where they attached to fixed other metal connections. Take that new line and twist is all up like a phone cord to be flexible around a hammer handle like thing and aim the fittings to connect and bleed it out and it will get you thru this bullcrap blast of snow which is here too just a couple hours earlier in Massachusetts.
That or a tubing cutter and small peice of brake line may fit in if it is the rubber flex hose and double clamp each end, bleed away and for a clutch it might work - all that if there's room for that type hackery. Don't ever fake that with brake lines for brakes - EVER though - too important and much more pressure!
What I'm saying is you can make metal line flexible with lots of twists and turns bent into it but keep it from rubbing on anything. This is temp and cheapo fix to get it going if just that.
Good luck. Dang snow won't stop here and it's your next so get going. I bet you won't find that exact line so quick over weekend thru GM or parts stores so see if faking it with plain line and hardware store stuff will work,
T
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ironworker1143
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Dec 20, 2008, 12:36 PM
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Well Tom and Loren ...U guys are cracker jacks also>>lol...I have spare brake line and fittings /tubing in tool box.. And I will make a few 360's on that line .give it movement....Bleed her out.....Put my chains on back wheels..drop her in 1...Plow away>>>I HOPE<<<lmao,
Great Guys !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 21, 2008, 3:28 AM
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It'll work - I just know it!
Loren is the real mechanic........
Kitty does my work and she's awesome with coat hangars, duct tape and hammers!
This is me......
Hope it works and the damn snow ends!
T
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ironworker1143
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Dec 21, 2008, 6:33 AM
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Hi again Tom,
Guess Iam driving u guys nuts.....Sorry...Got truck in inside where the heat is THANK GOD....Yes the Hyd. line is soaked...I'll replace like u guys said but can you give me a few ideas what way is best to bleed line...NOT A PRO...but have a clue>>lol,
I looked down at the slave and looks like theres a bleeder on top..But when I looked at the Master No Bleeder...I guess I could loose-in the fitting to get air out when the petal is being pumped. I know u pump it like brakes but is it possible to give me alittle run down on how to bleed it.
You Guys Are So Helpful
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 21, 2008, 7:40 AM
Post #18 of 21
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General Bleeding:
Normally you would bleed a master cylinder with it on bench (in vise) and make up or use line(s) at exit ports to return fluid to reservoir pushing as the actual rod would into cylinder hence "bench bleeding" as it's called. Full depth of travel and short pushes till bubbles cease.
Then you have to install it on the vehicle (in this case you decide if it's positioned level enough to try this with it in place or what) with those makeshift return lines and do a quick transition to the line(s) that will go on to slave cylinder in this case.
Attach the real line(s) quickly but don't cross up threads either.
Push pedal to floor and hold it! Open bleeder at slave cylinder for just as long as any action happens and close it off at once. DO NOT MOVE CLUTCH PEDAL TILL BLEEDER SCREW IS CLOSED, THEN REPEAT. A clear line/hose to a container with the line submerged in brake fluid can help for detecting bubbles AND help prevent air from returning. Do not reuse fluid.
Notes: One or more pumps before opening bleeder may help and eventually you should notice a few bleeds in a row with no air/bubbles present and call it done. With a clutch slave you may be seeing the motion begin to take place and end up working as it should.
More: Clutch or brake same bull: Some are a PITA and don't get started or leave enough air to be a problem. Assorted things such as pressure bleeders or applying vacuum on bleeder end can help. Those hand vacuum pumps are real handy and lots of clear line like used for aquariums. If using a vacuum pump - watch fluid and avoid drawing fluid into pump.
I love this exact tool with gauge too - not mfg'd for brake bleeding but works or help them get going.
Tricks: So far I've managed but I guess I'd think up some way to push fluid backwards from bleeder up to master if it really acted up.
Loren - others? Any tricks of your own for tricky bleeding of clutches? I don't think this is known as the worst of them to purge air out but haven't run across one in GM truck yet - all automatics or linkage and older than this truck!
Keep trying - it's gotta work!
Go get em!
Still freaking snowing like nuts here 12-21-2008
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Dec 21, 2008, 7:49 AM)
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 21, 2008, 9:27 AM
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Ya dun good, young man! Couldn't have said it better, myself! And, that shot of Kitty is priceless!
Loren
SW Washington
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ironworker1143
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Dec 21, 2008, 6:10 PM
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Well Men,
What a job trying to bleed...after 2 hrs got a clutch...Iam beat tired...What a job trying to get that air out....Man.. Just went out and pushed the snow banks back...Keep a eye on the LITTLE FLUID CUP......Think I;ll be ok....Storm Coming....
THanks Guys......HOPE SANTA BRINGS U A PLAYBOY BUNNY>>LOL
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 21, 2008, 6:35 PM
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>>HOPE SANTA BRINGS U A PLAYBOY BUNNY>>LOL << Me, too! But, not sure if the wife would like it, much.
Really glad to hear that you got it up and running. Have a great Christmas.
Loren
SW Washington
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