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HemiMoparGuy1981
Novice
Oct 1, 2016, 8:59 AM
Post #1 of 18
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(5)45RFE acting up
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99 Jeep Grand CHerokee 4.7L 160K miles
Hey Guys, Need some advice on my wife's Jeep. Started off with a grinding kind of noise, which I put off as being the brake pads digging into the rotors, lack of time and energy caused for her to have to drive on it for several months...it didn't inhibit stopping ability much at all, otherwise I would have fabricated time. ANyway, I wasn't completely wrong, the brakes were part of the issue, but after replacing them, SOME noise was still there. I found it to be the transfer case chain slapping and likely one of the sprockets grinding/slipping on the chain. I checked the transmission fluid, since some vehicles get the fluid for t-case right from transmission, it was pretty low, not sure where it went, no leaks, and I checked it a few months prior...I added fluidto tranny. I later found out the t-case has it's own fluid, and added it to the t-case as well, but my main concern here is the transmission. While trying to figure exactly what was going on before tearing apart (again, time constraints of planning our wedding) I brake torqued it a couple times. Ever since then, the transmission has been acting up and got progressively worse. We finally had our wedding last week, now I actually have time to dig into this thing.
It started off being hesitant to shift into prolly 3rd gear. Then it got to the point it wouldn't shift without feathering off the gas. And now it is acting like it has about a 3K rpm stall torque converter and I have to really gas it to get it to move in any gear selection, R, D, L, 2. Then once it gets going I have to feather the gas to shift into 2nd prime and then 3rd.
I'm hoping someone can give some hints as to whether it may be best to put in a new tranny, or if it may be the torque converter, or something like the valve body where I can just swap it out without ripping the tranny out, etc. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thank You In Advance,
Eric
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gsferraro
Veteran
Oct 1, 2016, 12:07 PM
Post #2 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Hello,
First, congrats on your wedding.
Since you had an issue with 3rd gear and now it got to the point where the car doesnt move that well, i feel that you have internal issue, but first make sure this trans is full, this gets checked with the car running and shifter in neutral not park, if its full what is the condition of the fluid? does it smell burnt? On this unit 3rd gear is common to go bad, When this was acting up in 3rd did it seem like it would go into neutral on the 2-3 shift? Gary
(This post was edited by gsferraro on Oct 1, 2016, 12:08 PM)
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HemiMoparGuy1981
Novice
Oct 1, 2016, 12:48 PM
Post #3 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Thank you for the congrsts and the reply. It did feel very much like neutral. Went fromm 2500-5500 instantly still felt like it was pulling a little, but mostly a neutral coast feeling. I haven't checked the fluid since it started happening like that, but did just top it off a few days prior. What little fluid in it didn't seem burnt at all.
So, where should I go from here? I do need to get this back on the road as quick as possibly. Would a used tranny be the route, or is it something that can be done without a full rebuild. I have done a little inside the tranny to an old Intrepid I used to have with some instructive help, but I'm not super familiar with tranny's but am kinda confident with my skills of being able to pick up on it...but I know some things can be very tempermental and need to be done perfectly, and others are more tolerable. Is this tranny one that is relatively simplistic?
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gsferraro
Veteran
Oct 1, 2016, 2:17 PM
Post #4 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Hello,
At this point, the trans would have to come out, this trans is similar to the one you worked on, but it does have its differences. I would say that either it would have to go to a shop for a rebuild or you can swap it out with a used one(try to get low mileage if you go that way). One thing that will need to be done with whatever you decide is what called a "quick learn" this transmission is a clutch to clutch shift transmission and timing has to be right on.
As the clutches in the transmission wear out the computer compensates for this to keep the trans shifting normal until it cant anymore, so if you put another unit in this car and dont perform a quick learn, there is a chance the unit will burn out again because the computer doesnt know the unit has been swapped out and will keep applying the clutches the same way.
At my shop when i rebuild one or even repair one(like swapping out a solenoid pack) i always perform a quick learn through my scan tool. Gary
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HemiMoparGuy1981
Novice
Oct 1, 2016, 2:41 PM
Post #5 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Is the "quick learn" similar to when my buddy who helped me with my Intrepid told me to drive it like a rental car for the first couple days?
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gsferraro
Veteran
Oct 1, 2016, 2:48 PM
Post #6 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Hello,
I would say yes, couple of things though, there cant be any codes present(engine or trans) and the cars usually adapt when hot(temp above 130degrees).
I prefer the quick learn because somethings it can take a little bit before it adapts and possible damage to the clutch packs can happen, does your friend have a scanner? Gary
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HemiMoparGuy1981
Novice
Oct 1, 2016, 2:54 PM
Post #7 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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He does, but we now live 3 hrs apart.
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gsferraro
Veteran
Oct 2, 2016, 5:55 AM
Post #8 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Hello,
Then try to drive it after repair is done to see if it will adapt, but if it doesnt feel any different after 10-15 minutes of driving you may need a scan tool to do the quick learn. Gary remember, there cant be any codes present.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 2, 2016, 8:40 AM
Post #9 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Just FYI:
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: Dec. 4, 1998
SUBJECT:
Quick Learn Clutch
Volume Procedures
On 45RFE Transmissions
MODELS:
1999 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
NOTE:
THIS INFORMATION APPLIES TO 45RFE TRANSMISSIONS.
DISCUSSION:
To prevent an incorrect clutch volume to be learned and cause potential shift quality problems, the following steps must be performed prior to running quick learn procedures.
With the DRB III(R) Connected:
1. Start the engine and shift the transmission into drive.
2. Leave the transmission in drive for a minimum of 5 seconds and then shift the transmission into park.
3. Initiate the quick learn procedure and follow all prompts given by the DRB III(R). The above steps will purge any air that may be trapped in the underdrive clutch.
A DRB III(R) feature enhancement will be added at a later date that will prompt for the above procedure to be completed prior to initiating the quick learn procedure.
POLICY: Information Only
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 2, 2016, 8:56 AM
Post #10 of 18
(3211 views)
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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The Snapon software already tells you to drive it ahead a few feet before activating the quick learn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Oct 2, 2016, 9:03 AM
Post #11 of 18
(3209 views)
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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I personally don't like the idea of driving it like a mad man to get it to learn another transmission.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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HemiMoparGuy1981
Novice
Oct 11, 2016, 2:23 AM
Post #12 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
On to more issues. I finally got the swap done, and so far not liking the results. Still on the jack stands, and the tires don't spin, not even the drive shaft when in any gear, even with revving the throttle. I am REALLY hoping it is one of two simple problems that I will scope out after work today, just wanted some input as well. I tried with Transfer Case in 4 all time and 4 Low, I reach under and try to turn driveshaft manually, it is definitely much harder to turn when in a gear vs neutral, but I can still turn it. The engine changed RPM as I select different gears, it wasn't at first, but I dumped in about 4 qts then ran through the gears, then added one at a time, running through gears after each quart. After adding a few more is when the engine changed like the solenoids were kicking in, but still no movement from anything. I have a total of 9 qts in now.
According to a website this vehicle takes about 6.5 qts for service, and about 14.5 for overhaul. So I'm REALLY hoping it is just still low, but am skeptical because I drained the transmission, but nothing came out of the lines and not much came out of the torque converter. I didn't tear into the transmission, and I know a bunch is still inside when you pull it apart. It shows fluid way up into the waves on the dip stick, but it is blotchy all the way up, like it isn't true and is just scraping te fluid running down the sides of the dipstick tube, the fluid isn't even sticking inside the bubbles for hot and cold levels, so it seems it is still low, but it's just hard to believe since I should need the amount somewhere between service and overhaul, and I have added about halfway between that amount. I'm about to go check it this AM before heading to work now that is's had all night to drip out of the tube, I just want some reassurance so this isn't bothering me all day.
My other hopeful thought is the P0700 code is still showing, which is expected because I haven't cleared it, will this code prevent the transmission from responding correctly?? Do I need to go buy a scanner to erase this code? I've heard hit and miss about unhooking the battery to clear it, plus it was unhooked for a couple days during the swap to drop the starter.
Any info is greatly appreciated,
Thank You in Advance,
Eric
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gsferraro
Veteran
Oct 11, 2016, 5:17 PM
Post #13 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Hello,
The P0700 Is just a generic code, you would need to scan the trans to see what code is present. How is the fluid now, does it still show way up on the stick? also when checking the fluid, put the car in neutral. Gary
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HemiMoparGuy1981
Novice
Oct 12, 2016, 3:57 AM
Post #14 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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I bought a scanner and erased the codes. When I added one more quart last night, it started spinning. I dropped it down and it acted as before, slipping like a high stall torque convertter is installed. I still didn't like the reading on the dipstick as it was blotchy and not thick like my motor oil dipstick. I added another quart and it started a combination of normal and slipping. It'd start off slipping then kinda slam into gear and jerk foward, kinda like an inexperenced driver with a stick shift, letting the clutch pop out the last little bit after very slowly letting it most the way up. The dip stick doesn't seem to be chanhing on the dipstick over the last about 4 qts I poured in.
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gsferraro
Veteran
Oct 12, 2016, 5:03 PM
Post #15 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Hello,
According to the dipstick is the trans now full? if so, what is it doing when in gear? Is this a used trans that you put in?
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HemiMoparGuy1981
Novice
Oct 15, 2016, 6:14 AM
Post #16 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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I ended up with about 12-13 qts of fluid, and after about the 5th qt it didn't seem to change on the dipstick, just kept showing a little thicker each time. It was shoing about 1/4 the way up the first wave on the stick, but blotchy. FInally after adding so much more fluid it is finally showing pretty thick and no blotch on the dipstick, still up in that wave, and is slightly foamy. Yes, this was a used transmission...out of a vehicle with a seized motor. It's doing the slipping shifting into second and then third.
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gsferraro
Veteran
Oct 15, 2016, 6:52 PM
Post #17 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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May have to try a quick learn first. Gary
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HemiMoparGuy1981
Novice
Oct 15, 2016, 7:46 PM
Post #18 of 18
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Re: (5)45RFE acting up
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking...got outta work too late all week to get to a shop to program it
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