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stripped ball joint stud / twisted boot / spinning shaft


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kulcousy
User

May 19, 2019, 5:28 PM

Post #1 of 31 (743 views)
stripped ball joint stud / twisted boot / spinning shaft Sign In

Hello
I am new to the forum and mad at myself. Working on my 82 Mercedes 300d front suspension ball joints and control arm. We installed new upper control arm and tightened the nut and found the stud spinning. I found out later that the steering knuckles were installed on the wrong sides! Now I can't remove the nut to return the knuckles to the correct sides.
What can I do?
Thanks
John


(This post was edited by kulcousy on May 25, 2019, 7:16 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 20, 2019, 4:04 AM

Post #2 of 31 (711 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

The stud is tapered and is designed to hold itself once tightened into it's seat. You have to somehow force the shaft down into the seat, maybe with a large prybar or something like that.

It may also help to use a strong air impact gun hitting it in spurts.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kulcousy
User

May 20, 2019, 10:22 AM

Post #3 of 31 (698 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Thank You Hammer Time
Further inspection shows that the shaft under the nut does not turn with the nut. I was told by my partner that it's a lock nut having a plastic sleeve. The steering knuckle turns with the nut. It's quite bizarre. Your explanation and the lock nut idea would account for it. The passenger side nut can be removed normally.
I"ll try gripping the nut strongly with some plyers.
Thanks.


Tom Greenleaf
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May 20, 2019, 10:44 AM

Post #4 of 31 (696 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Just an idea if one side just isn't cooperating. First you need powerful air and a good shot with it. If this is going doomed to fail tighten the thing and get that shaft to stick hard and it should be hard and locked tapered shaft to tapered hole.
Understood the locking nut is the plastic end if that can with control arm may also have used some thread locker isn't like being welded on. It should with a hard knocking air wrench right at it take nut out and off. If you've spun that way too many times now I question if you should serious inspect the hole and tapers when it's out if messed up now? Good luck, strong fast tools or you might make it worse,


T



Hammer Time
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May 20, 2019, 10:53 AM

Post #5 of 31 (691 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

No, the knuckle is not turning with the nut. That would be impossible.

Force the ball joint down into the socket and it will stop spinning.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kulcousy
User

May 20, 2019, 11:24 AM

Post #6 of 31 (686 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Thanks Tom
You guys are helping me understand. We have spun it numerous times. Very unprofessional hopefulness. Since there are no power tools available we are considering cutting the stud and replacing the control arm.
Hammer- the problem must be the nut being stripped. My thought is to try to slide the nut off the stud while turning/prying. The nut is tight against the knuckle which will turn up to it's limit of travel. How can stripped threads do this?


Tom Greenleaf
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May 20, 2019, 11:48 AM

Post #7 of 31 (682 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

? Stripped threads - really doubt that. Strip the hex or round that you should notice that visually is trouble. I totally doubt there's room to cut the nut, nut splitters they are called and it might not anyway. I can't suggest getting it to glow with torches that wrecks the hardness of the metal would work but not here.
There's a wild strong "C" clamp with adaptors if nut was off and stuck hovers the ball joint and presses the daylights out of the stud still requires the shot at it.
Other? IDK, take all parts that have that off so it's out on a bench. That's going to pretty wild extremes IMO if you are going to fail and harm things that arm and joint are lost for new anyway.
I'll leave that up to you to find quality OE spec replacement units that have everything. ? A Benz - not a clue how much or if quality up to real spec worries me with all kinds of things this included.
Yes you could get this out but by the time you had the entire grouping of tools to force this it would buy the whole car big time and then some so that's out. Keep trying,


T



kulcousy
User

May 20, 2019, 12:15 PM

Post #8 of 31 (680 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

I haven't been clear.
The nut obviously turns. The stud doesn't. The nut has a nylon core. Somehow it is snug against the knuckle holding it to the ball joint even though it is "theoretically" stripped.
It may be the nylon core has come loose from the steel nut.
I would cut it off by exposing the stud underneath the grease boot.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 20, 2019, 1:37 PM

Post #9 of 31 (669 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Look, what you are saying sounds just ridiculous to someone that does this all the time.

If the shaft truly is not turning which I doubt, it means someone cross threaded it and used extreme force to strip those threads............. not likely.

I'm sure the shaft is spinning and all you have to do to stop that is force it into the socket. We deal with this problem all the time and it's usually not a big deal. If it's that much of a problem for you, then you just need to have it towed to a competent shop and they will resolve it easily.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
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May 20, 2019, 2:19 PM

Post #10 of 31 (659 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

?? Sorry if I misunderstood you? If a nut is just spinning like that it should just about pull off or now old tool a battery cable puller - pull the nut off. I really doubt that the shaft is spinning you can't tell quite that easily. Look or mark (paint or a notch/scratch) the stud. Now turn it watching socket or box wrench just a tad you'll see it moved with the nut.
Can only guess what the hell went wrong you said first they were on wrong sides of this thing! That must be some wild mistake no telling now I guess what else was back-asswards to undo now?


Tom



kulcousy
User

May 20, 2019, 4:16 PM

Post #11 of 31 (644 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NwM_EQaWC6oFXbf13Snpjnd8WvqnhPitZA/view?usp=drivesdk

I have glued aluminum foil to the bottom of the shaft to demonstrate this
Thanks again
Tom- I agree


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 20, 2019, 4:22 PM

Post #12 of 31 (639 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

That video won't play



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kulcousy
User

May 20, 2019, 4:25 PM

Post #13 of 31 (633 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Sorry
You have to download it probably


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 20, 2019, 4:30 PM

Post #14 of 31 (626 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

That's not going to happen.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kulcousy
User

May 20, 2019, 4:39 PM

Post #15 of 31 (621 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

https://youtu.be/DGzOzxpZg8o


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 20, 2019, 5:00 PM

Post #16 of 31 (613 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

OK, so it really is stripped. I don't know how he accomplished that.

That means you need to apply pressure in the opposite direction. Maybe wedge something between the nut and the knuckle to push the nut off as you turn it.

Other than that, you just have to cut it off. Using a cutoff wheel or acetylene torch would work the best.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kulcousy
User

May 20, 2019, 5:04 PM

Post #17 of 31 (606 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

OK
Great
Thanks for the advice


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 20, 2019, 11:08 PM

Post #18 of 31 (584 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Good one! How the heck did that happen? May never know.
Just FYI, these are not my strong suit of vehicles going back. Did I see a BLUE dust/grease seal there on the joint? I suspect some cloned part now would explain a lot. Colors of "rubber" products used to mean something doesn't that much but not BLUE for OE that I recall.


Looks to me like time for this to be cut off to see what you have to work with. Oxy/Acetylene is my default for a "one size fits all" wrench just takes serious care not to glow the metal that must be kept strong will cut that right off.


There's room there for a "nut splitter" if they worked well (not for me so far) would do that. So would the right shot with a cut off wheel.


Still a maybe is if you could get a good shot at the nut with a very powerful air wrench while under wild force of a "pickle fork" (just my term for the joint splitter) it might just come off.


Watch out for what gets damaged with what you try up to and including replacing the whole assembly again. You just can't let this be weak with what works to get this flipping thing apart.


Please do beware, the best tools to do this are all dangerous. Sounds like a warning label that now means nothing is on everything but this is real. Don't get hurt doing this is always #1,


Tom



kulcousy
User

May 22, 2019, 8:57 PM

Post #19 of 31 (547 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Tom,
I appreciate the support.
The installation was not done with a torque wrench so maybe...
I am not familiar with any of the tools you mentioned and may take the joined parts to a shop if it will come off the car that way.
yes, the rubber is blue.
John


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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May 23, 2019, 2:56 AM

Post #20 of 31 (539 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

John,
You got this, this way with all the errors of this installation that could possibly happen. Parts probably not top rated or OE quality, strike #1. Oh, then installed on the wrong sides! Strike #2. Parts installed without proper tools and or not torqued as you said. Strike #3. In baseball that's a FAIL and you go back and sit down on the bench.


Now it's all yours. How special.
Yes - all this would come out with incredible tools. What they do to save any of this stuff to use again remains a question to me. Just that nut with plastic (locking nuts) that do NOT require a cotter pin that type is really meant for one time use no mistakes the first time.


Just good luck there's such a mess you've inherited/bought that wasn't your fault is just a bummer. Be ready if this goes on never mind here or the web to just do this stuff over the right way and get on with who knows what else you'd like to do with this car. For now it's stopping the whole show.


Do know and bet you do at the end of all this it needs a real nice alignment job that can't be done if any of this type stuff is way out of specification or like this so totally wrong can't even begin to do that last thing. Good luck getting it to that point,


Tom



kulcousy
User

May 25, 2019, 2:44 PM

Post #21 of 31 (508 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Thanks Tom,
I removed the 2 parts and had a shop separate them.
Now to the control arms. My misadventures continue.
The replacement for the replacement control arm mounted difficultly and the shaft didnt drop fully through the hole in the knuckle. I installed the nut anyway and it didn't go well. The boot is all twisted.
I am posting pictures and so I don't have to needlessly remove the locking nut. Could I get an opinion on whether things are installed and aligned adequately?
Thanks again


kulcousy
User

May 25, 2019, 3:06 PM

Post #22 of 31 (503 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In




(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 28, 2019, 3:42 AM)


kulcousy
User

May 25, 2019, 6:42 PM

Post #23 of 31 (481 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

OK
I got it. The problem was the shaft of the ball joint was spinning. I could feel it break loose each time I tightened the nut. The bottom of the boot is attached to the shaft and twisted when this happened.
Hammer Time's suggestion to use a pry bar was the solution


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 25, 2019, 7:20 PM

Post #24 of 31 (473 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

What to do John? Nothing is working out with this. Just spent an hour looking this thing up for parts and OMG none of it is that sure or easy.
Your new stuff just isn't right. Just FYI pics are or aren't a pest here yours too wide widens the whole thread but leave it for a little while
it shows the mess.
This is what I expect looking for parts which I guess isn't going to happen with this car? Put old parts on a counter and match to the new stuff. In pics or in person by part #s and crossed over part #s.
Lost for the moment? I think it's going to take going to a dealer and beg for a printout of the OE part and number thru maybe a VIN search. My hunt just made me ill seeing parts for this thing cloned, any color you want many didn't look fit for a shopping cart wasn't too thrilled.


Here just a sample pic of how I'd approach this as an example bet the picture doesn't show at all or disappears will come back to edit if I can't see it.


Anyway - this still has to be right, strong, alignable when all done and doesn't seem it's any closer to that. My pic below if it shows if not just lost in the hunt to info? Sorry about that, Tom { PICTURE DIDN'T SHOW, LOOK HOW SCREWED UP THIS SEARCH WAS!! }}
>>944 x 568 ยท jpegmercedessource.com



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on May 25, 2019, 7:22 PM)


milleniaman
New User

May 25, 2019, 8:57 PM

Post #25 of 31 (452 views)
Re: stripped ball joint stud (new install) Sign In

Hi Tom,
I couldnt sign in as myself so Im milleniaman now
Thanks for your advice. Funny the part I ordered originally is the brand Kent uses in the video. It fit very well. The 2nd is a Lemfoerder which I thought was a good brand but the geometry (head angle) was about 10 degrees less and it was much harder to fit than the meyle and the head bushings don't seat exactly right.
I'm assuming that the cores are all recycled. ?..
The Lemfoerder geometry funnily matches the part that was worn out to begin with.
If you think it is a serious problem I could re-order a Meyle replacement part and use a better nut
I'll edit the pic. Sorry about that.
I appreciate your advice.
John






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