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greasy one
User
May 23, 2022, 4:48 PM
Post #1 of 29
(2940 views)
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This has been a nightmare for a long, long time. 2002 Subaru H-6 wagon. I first thought of a bad rack with play. I have been constantly balancing and rotating tires, for years, which usually helps for a short time. The car goes down the road, fine, then the steering wheel goes back and forth rapidly and then stops and repeats. In 2020, I put on 4 new tires for a good price from some questionable place. I went back a month ago and the guy says the tires look brand new but will gladly sell me 4 more for 225$. I just changed the 2 outer tie rods, with no change. Between 3 places, no one delivers. I wonder about bad and shifting tire belts but did see 2 tires, on the front, on the balancer, and they spun true and in balance. My Father had a, late in life, Jeep, with the same effect. I guess it was called "Death Wobble.". I would go perfectly and then wobble like you wouldn't believe. My car is the same but not quite as bad. No one found anything wrong either.My first set of tires, sat a long time before I got the car. Does this sound like tires? The rack boot is wrecked and original rack. I still have a very bad rotor on the front and wonder if that could set up a vibration. My most trusted guy thinks needs struts. That seems wrong.
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greasy one
User
May 23, 2022, 4:51 PM
Post #2 of 29
(2938 views)
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The car rolls true except at highway speeds but comes and goes
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 23, 2022, 5:38 PM
Post #3 of 29
(2933 views)
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Of course a distorted rotor can do that. So can any steering component with play.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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greasy one
User
May 23, 2022, 9:45 PM
Post #4 of 29
(2914 views)
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Everything is tight in the front end. Your thoughts about the rotor give me hope. I have asked these mechanics with no answers. Parts with play dont usually give any let up, I guess. The last went over it pretty well and he actually is pretty good, even with a guess of struts, after checking those too.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 24, 2022, 1:05 AM
Post #5 of 29
(2906 views)
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What era and type of Jeep did you say had that "Death Wobble?"
They sure did - the era of the CJ types were scary on highways, roads with lot of crest wasn't supposed to be a race car more of an ATV legal for roads.
Not a Subaru anything I can think of.
Nobody in person is helping you but suggesting costly things THAT ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.
Rotors on several vehicles if removed and just replaced can have rust flakes between them and hubs are nasty feeling to outright dangerous but you can see that just spinning the wheel when back on car.
Some styles use such a pressed on fit and a screw beating on them to remove just wrecks them.
Can you hoist this car yourself safely and plain spin wheels ALL up in air plain see it not the useless tossing parts so far. Ask for the used parts back - if you can't see the flaws or be shown THIS IS A HORROR SHOW.
Knowing tires are without tread separation is why it too is a trade if mishandled could mess up from the get go.
Sitting for a while wrecks rotors any decent tire will work out of it unless it was way too long.
This is mechanics 101 don't put up with it.
LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT NOW MORE THAN EVER IS WHEELS TAKEN OFF MUST BE TORQUED TO SPEC IN WRITING ON YOUR BILL.
No air tools for final putting lug nuts back on that should be by hand with torque measuring tools or risk of wrecking parts and or wheels,
Your call, you questioned the work already done sounds scary to me enough to find another whole place,
Tom
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greasy one
User
May 24, 2022, 6:22 AM
Post #6 of 29
(2901 views)
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The Jeep was a late 80s pick up. I really was the only driver and it only was used to empty household items into a couple storage units. It was insanity when the shaking occurred. It appeared normal. On my car, I think a caliper is sticking. The car came with a, ground up, inner surface, on the rotor, and I just slap some pads on to quiet the grinding. I wonder if this rotor is acting like an unbalanced tire.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 24, 2022, 6:38 AM
Post #7 of 29
(2898 views)
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YES. Noted by me I look for new rotors showing they were balanced if small enough less need if close they go out the door to you,
T
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greasy one
User
May 24, 2022, 7:26 AM
Post #8 of 29
(2890 views)
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You are saying that rotors get balanced? This must be the problem then, The rotor is in bad shape.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 24, 2022, 7:57 AM
Post #9 of 29
(2888 views)
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Package should say so. Non vented rotors would cut metal off where heavy the vented types add weight into the holes.
IDK anyone who could check or redo that if the only issue?
If lousy to see now that's a problem is it rusty or some other thing observed?
If you can see thru the wheel the surface should be uniformly shiny used if not or a pocked area those have to go means total brake job if not even the problem at hand!
T
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greasy one
User
May 24, 2022, 8:39 AM
Post #10 of 29
(2884 views)
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The rotor has had a few metal on metal periods, The inner surface is very thin and ground up as in grooved. I put this off until shaking could be solved. The brakes work, if a little shimmy on use.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 24, 2022, 9:02 AM
Post #11 of 29
(2880 views)
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Generally new ones are not so bad. Grooved alone don't really mean shaking but it wasn't right or brakes unevenly worn means wear one side to the other probably isn't even and should be.
Calipers, hose issues also the bracket bolts. If been there long enough I take those apart and re-lube hardware and where pads need to slide to retract.
That if uneven pad wear would cause funky feelings if dragging even without using brakes.
That could be it? Hate to say that if you want this car do it up - all of it BRAKES can and do feel like a warped item and even cause it.
If hot enough they won't work properly either focus on this vehicles just must stop as intended,
T
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greasy one
User
May 25, 2022, 5:39 PM
Post #12 of 29
(2863 views)
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I saw a mechanic today about my rotor. He owns a good shop and checked the car in the past. He remembered and repeated that a bad strut is my problem and might not be constantly doing it like an unbalanced tire or rotor. Make sense? I only know shocks from working at Kmart Auto. Did a few a day. Out the door, done, in 35 min. for four. Used torch,air power and a water fire extinguisher. A lot of other work too and still mounted more new tires than anyone on east coast in 1980, said my boss.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 25, 2022, 5:55 PM
Post #13 of 29
(2861 views)
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No, shocks/struts do not cause vibration.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 26, 2022, 1:59 AM
Post #14 of 29
(2846 views)
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Just plain DITTO on what action of struts and or shocks do. Those and alignment out of whack do NOT cause vibrations alone. Those things help control a vibration the source is something else, Tom
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greasy one
User
May 26, 2022, 7:21 PM
Post #15 of 29
(2824 views)
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Its more the steering wheel going back and forth quickly. I have been blaming the rack. Thanks for answering, I wonder about this guy, lately although he has been ok on other jobs.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 26, 2022, 7:43 PM
Post #16 of 29
(2822 views)
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Have you checked the tires for separation. If it's happening at low speeds, that's the #1 suspect.
Run the car in drive with the front wheels off the ground, make sure the parking brake is on and look for a deformation when spinning.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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greasy one
User
May 27, 2022, 5:36 AM
Post #17 of 29
(2812 views)
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The car is fine at low speeds, it starts at 55mph+ It goes for 10 secs or so and stops and just repeats. It shakes pretty hard. I saw the front tires, at the time, on the balancer and they spun perfectly and one was !/4 oz. off. He added that. I will try what you said.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 27, 2022, 6:16 AM
Post #18 of 29
(2807 views)
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? It starts this, stops it, then repeats. It's Subaru so AWD what you described could be anything on 4 wheels.
It's a combo something lining up when two or more wheels/tires that just can't all turn the exact same RPM nothing is that perfect.
It's felt thru front and obnoxious I take it when it does this?
Take a super hard look at you tires for any tell-tale wear pattern and even tread, tires - brand and wear really wants to be equal + can't be.
IDK, not fan of the 4X4 craze now 20 year old might not take much.
If this passes all checking there may be tricks with tire pressure may help. IDK - I meant IDK.
If these tires are NOT marked directional I don't see why if known in balance what's left?
It all has to be right. I trust the road you use is OK and different lanes or another road it still does it.
Your tires just must show wear evidence that would lead to the real cause.
Who if not just you familiar with tires up the butt has looked at this with this complaint?
It's too extreme by your description to not show evidence on tires IMO needs all up in air inspected super carefully it has to show the clue,
T
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greasy one
User
May 27, 2022, 7:56 PM
Post #19 of 29
(2794 views)
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The tires are not wearing at all. Only maybe 10,000 on them . The old tires wore well also, except for a rear tire that totally went bald, inside, without me knowing. The transmission or something was redone before me. It shifts and goes fine. I have thought about the tire pressure and seem to remember trying to mess with that and seemed to maybe work, awhile back. Now whenever I stop for air, they are broken, to try again. This same back tire is staying well and I just paid for alignment on 2 tie rods that did nothing to help.
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greasy one
User
May 27, 2022, 8:03 PM
Post #20 of 29
(2790 views)
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After what you said about not all rolling at same RPM, I wonder about my messed up rotor but now about my inner pad that must be dragging which caused the grooving only on that pad.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 28, 2022, 4:44 AM
Post #21 of 29
(2777 views)
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Clues: A dragging brake leaves evidence will cause this all by itself. I took "grooves" as a prior problem not current. Dragging can cause temporary warpage then retract and return. That's one to fix but do both.
Tire pressure? Forgot (not enough coffee yet) try but be able to fix is make them diagonally off a few lbs. Try that front to rear also.
10,000 miles on* tires show clues you need fine touch to feel it. Should be on 3rd cross rotation or you caused this! Why? BC front wheels do all the steering, hit road first, do 80% of the braking so rear ones do not. Right side rides lousy side of ordinary roads also depends on what types of road you use about that felt by the tires.
*Tire brands and ratings matter greatly on that.
You have to be able to do this yourself or mark them where to go at shops - that' rotating tires alone. Torque lug nuts no guessing or that's another reason especially alloy wheels,
Tom
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greasy one
User
May 28, 2022, 3:21 PM
Post #22 of 29
(2760 views)
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In between testlights I fired up my little Ryobi compressor and put in 30lb on one diagonal and 35 on other, thanks for diagonal tip I would have just gone side to side. I drove in heavy rain but not the full 60 mph and was good, at least for a couple miles
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greasy one
User
May 29, 2022, 6:41 PM
Post #24 of 29
(2735 views)
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Not exactly a perfectly smooth ride but 20 miles one way at 65 was a way better trip. Not shaking nearly as much. I was ready to alternate the diagonal pressures but left it for now.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
May 29, 2022, 8:04 PM
Post #25 of 29
(2726 views)
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IDK if it's valid now but what is the suggested tire pressure as listed usually on a driver's door jam? Also, what brand are these tires?
I still say with the right touch you'd feel the uneven tire wear even at 10K on new set now perhaps lost info what locations they've been in.
They make those paper grease pens can mark tires if playing locations and pressures keep track what did what.
CT roads - interstate I-95 perhaps? I'm not that far but a while since on that stretch is heavily travelled with heavy semi truck-trailers seems to matter along with a mix of concrete areas and hopefully good grade asphalt. Some was cheated on and just put asphalt over concrete doesn't work out well long term - a few years too much.
Hot one day colder the next typical.
This was in rain (did that here) wasn't out in it doesn't matter but just might now the right touch of the tires.
Tires wear on the leading edge more than what's to the rear just FYI. Slight bit should be even inside and outside or tire + all around.
Changing pressures a little also changes how may feet per 100 revolutions it is goes is listed virtually all are a smidge off some types of cars you just don't notice - this one a full complaint?
With that it's back to brand - some just do better than others or tolerate imperfections better.
Other issue (one of my own) is was (gone now) newer to me was serious brake dust build up inside wheel seen or unseen if off you would.
Has to be clean to wheel if deeply dished many are IDK all cars ever made or wheel choices new. TMK Subarus could have either steel with hubcaps or alloys optional or with a package of trim details. This from an owner of a regular Subaru not wagon lost cheapo OE hubcaps so badly they finally gave her a new set free no doubt a chronic issue for some years of them?
Feel the tires if they have been on same side for even 2,000 miles will wear the forward nub on them a little more that trailing edge on same can feel that. Moving them left to right they turn the other way is my way to stop that and works on my own.
OMG - couldn't speak for how lost the info could get for millions of vehicles out there where they were at what miles and date.
At some point you'll be told just toss all those tires when and if anything like a dragging brake is ruled out that wheel will have more dust.
These issues may never be found unless clues aren't there those in biz don't have the time if it's not obvious but proves "safe" with all other careful inspection stinks but you end up owning it for life of your time with the thing.
Safe a must if this a small detail/complain it's going to fall on deaf ears after a try a two at common stuff that would do this short of help (most every place) no time for this bull other stuff wild and serious must take priority.
At some point you're probably just going to have to put up with it or trade out this car for another! Costly move may be worse in some other way??
Tom
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