Main IndexAuto Repair Home Search Posts SEARCH
POSTS
Who's Online WHO'S
ONLINE
Log in LOG
IN









Search Auto Parts

2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning


  Email This Post



j_c.1982
User

Dec 6, 2017, 1:32 AM

Post #1 of 20 (470 views)
2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

2007
Ford
Focus
2.0
143,000

Good morning,

About 3 weeks ago my power steering started making a groaning noise when turning. I replaced the power steering pump, bled the air, and the groaning was gone until i went around the block.

I took it to Midas and they wanted to charge me $950 to replace the hoses. I went to O'Reilly and got the high pressure hose for $60 and replaced it myself. bled the air, and the groaning was gone until i went around the block.

I then replaced the reservoir. bled the air, and the groaning was gone until i went around the block.

Took it to my dads mechanic. He said the new power steering pump was bad, and that the color of the fluid should be red (O'Reilly had given me fluid that was golden/clear). So I had him fix what he thought was wrong. It was nice and quiet until about halfway home, then the groaning came back.

Today I replaced the low pressure return line. bled the air, and the groaning was gone until i went around the block.

At this point i've replaced everything, had 2 different mechanics look at it, and im no better off than i was when i started. Any advice would be very appreciated. im at my wits end and dont know where to go from here.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 6, 2017, 2:57 AM

Post #2 of 20 (450 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Good morning back at you. Not funny but with that read would say quit going around that block as it always comes back but not the funny.


OK: So far IMO it hasn't been to a real mechanic by chances only. Midas was born from a well respected "Muffler Place" specialists for ages as custom exhaust work then spread out to take on more and more could be excellent or not by brand name isn't fair so up to you to check credentials of the person you are going to deal with.


O'Reilly's is a parts store not there to fix a thing rather supply and sell parts that YOU request they are not responsible to be mechanics at all so don't expect them to be. Correct parts YES.
PS fluid? Generic is frequently without much or any color what might be compatible is the most common of ATF fluids but would go by what's listed there are exceptions if really totally wrong you'll never be done with this.


This groaning is no doubt now from the pump lacking fluid so would expect a mess of fluid all over the place to find what dang part is leaking for real even items you already did perhaps. Pump will fail again and again if run dry and blow debris along make this more of a project possibly back to why you heard $950 for a quote might have included a rebuilt power steering rack if you've let this groan enough probably does or will soon.
So suggestion is find the right shop nobody is finding the exact cause so pass on DIYing this. It probably will get more involved now and would expect the rack is gone and pump NG all over again from new or run dry too long can't say with this. Good luck but expect to part with some $$ for the right work once and be done with this,


T



j_c.1982
User

Dec 6, 2017, 4:58 AM

Post #3 of 20 (446 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In


Quote
This groaning is no doubt now from the pump lacking fluid so would expect a mess of fluid all over the place


It hasn't leaked a drop before or after the replacements. It has leaked while changing the parts, but that's to be expected (when i was first replacing the pump, i disconnected the return line and emptied the reservoir down the front of the engine. a rookie oversight. lol). But like i said, after everything's been connected and cleaned up, it has no leaks whatsoever.


(This post was edited by j_c.1982 on Dec 6, 2017, 5:00 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 6, 2017, 5:54 AM

Post #4 of 20 (440 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

OK - It wasn't leaking when first groaning was heard? Pump could have failed. Trouble is it doesn't have to stop with just a new pump as you've found out. Hydraulic pumps for things - power steering is actually VERY high pressure to do that must deal with no air, just the fluid to work.
Does it assist you before and after now? That's just a clue that at least it's partially good. I just don't have a crystal ball to know every last check valve, spring, and contraption this could have would have to see and be looking it up.
(insert here) I didn't hear that you replaced the return hose should be a low pressure hose if bent or somehow collapsed inside would cause this alone then slowly destroy other parts.


I have a strong guess of a feeling you are going to end up with a new rack and pinion (rebuilt) over this. Can't know.
This model by name for me is tougher as it's been a real Ford or not at all since the name has been used so lost a bit there for details of all it's designs and features.


Stuff common to PS in vehicles will lower amount of assist it provides to give better road feel at speed then allow full force for no speed parking and gradients of power assist. Likely that's done inside the rack can't be sure. These small controls may be electrically controlled knowing vehicle speed so lots to consider.


If it hadn't failed with what you did and doesn't leak that you should know as fluid would be missing it's another failed part and may be playing "ping-pong" with fixing one then it fails for lack of lube or debris in system?
If it works properly noise or not also must rule out being fooled that it's a pulley or belt issue!


Oh boy - this like other things replacing parts one by one may never work as quickly the source problem hasn't been solved so it just repeats and repeats the same failure but lasted "around the block" fine suggest a few minutes and did it all over again. It's probably going to without some help is where I'm suggesting as this isn't working out.


How about this? Take it to a tech/mechanic and will say want YOU to know who and that they are certified in Power Steering to at least diagnose the repair(s) and parts it should have to be done with this. That would save you a lot of this recurrent trouble.


I lack the specifics on bleeding out this PS system. Many are done hoisted, filled and fully turned full left and right with no load (wheels off ground) then prove itself back on ground is quiet and provides full assist usually good to go. A few have other procedures that are mandatory or speed up that to remove all air.
With no intention to belittle place you've been as it always comes down to the specific tech and experience not a brand named place but do suggest you find the right help for diagnosis if nothing more or have it done then it's not your ongoing problem.
IDK - could get down to pressure testing what pressure should be where to pin down then tools, equipment and procedures to accomplish that are not free to you some rentable some not the technical software should be available if you insist carrying on alone thru AllDataDIY.com for about $30 for a year's subscription.


Good luck. There's only so much I can do for you with this perhaps another has ideas to end this merry-go-round of failing to fix it,


Tom



j_c.1982
User

Dec 6, 2017, 6:34 AM

Post #5 of 20 (433 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In


Quote
OK - It wasn't leaking when first groaning was heard?

No, no leaks anywhere. hoses, pump, reservoir, pulley, belt, ground below the car... not a drop.


Quote
Does it assist you before and after now?

It does assist, and steering feels as it should, nice and easy. a little (very little) vibration when its groaning during turning, but not something id probably even notice without the groaning.


Quote
I didn't hear that you replaced the return hose

Yes, I replaced the low pressure return hose yesterday.


Quote
I lack the specifics on bleeding out this PS system. Many are done hoisted, filled and fully turned full left and right with no load (wheels off ground) then prove itself back on ground is quiet and provides full assist usually good to go.

I bled it by putting it up on jack stands and turned the wheel back and forth for about 5 minutes without the engine running, and checking the fluid level every minute or so. after 5 minutes i put the cap back on, started the engine, then turned the wheel back and forth for another 5 minutes. shut it off, took the cap off, and made sure the fluid was at the right level. after bleeding it like this, it is always quiet with no groaning, until i take it off the jack stands and actually drive it. then the groaning comes back.


(This post was edited by j_c.1982 on Dec 6, 2017, 6:36 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 6, 2017, 6:42 AM

Post #6 of 20 (425 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Just this, quoting you">I bled it by putting it up on jack stands and turned the wheel back and forth for about 5 minutes without the engine running, and checking the fluid level every minute or so. after 5 minutes i put the cap back on, started the engine, then turned the wheel back and forth for another 5 minutes. shut it off, took the cap off, and made sure the fluid was at the right level. after bleeding it like this, it is always quiet with no groaning, until i take it off the jack stands and actually drive it. then the groaning comes back.<"


Noted with just that: WITHOUT the engine running! How the heck if pump is still is fluid supposed to purge out air? It couldn't. So any air remained where it was till it's actually working while driving. There's an initial problem. Remains unknown now if doing it right will even help if the hydraulic parts could tolerate lack of lube while working hard and not self destruct it's broken again. You'll just repeat this over a detail like that if that was a typo on your part I apologize,


Tom



j_c.1982
User

Dec 6, 2017, 7:02 AM

Post #7 of 20 (421 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

After replacing the low pressure return line yesterday, the system was pretty dry. i filled the reservoir, and then turned the wheel for about a minute. i then checked the reservoir and it was empty, so i filled it again. after another minute of turning the wheel, the fluid level had dropped only a little bit.

So it is moving the fluid without the engine running. I found out to do it this way from several videos on youtube. Im not saying they are correct, but if theres another way to do it, im all ears.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 6, 2017, 7:19 AM

Post #8 of 20 (400 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Let me add one thing that I have seen in the past. If you have a remote reservoir, the line between the reservoir and the pump can have a small leak. What happens is that instead of leaking fluid, it allows the pump to suck air instead of fluid and causes the fluid to get aerated and cause noises.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Dec 6, 2017, 7:24 AM

Post #9 of 20 (398 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Is the fluid full of bubbles?


Ford's procedure to bleed the system is to use a hand held vacuum pump and adapter to apply vacuum to the system to remove air. The fluid must not be agitated. If the system is sucking air into the system for somewhere you'll never get all the air out.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 6, 2017, 7:44 AM

Post #10 of 20 (395 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Arggh! Yes it very well could fill some air just by turning without pump, pumping but fluid goes into a complete loop high pressure out as diverted to assist where on thru and leaves enough pressure to "return" hence the term "return line" for hydraulics. It's a brilliant machine by itself and a literal MAZE of passages with hiding spots for air.


All things new with light pre-lube filled and operating will purge out the air and be done. There's a time limit how long a pump can operate without lube from seconds to lots longer I don't know of one for vehicles that can tolerate zero lube there could be but doubt that.


Beware of billions of videos out there. They are not a replacement for being there or a universal way for each thing they claim to show you how. If they were so wonderful there'd be no need for experience, years of training and seeing the results of things that were NOT done properly that experience provides.
Forced (ME) to guess. If you haven't driving this much with it groaning it's possible parts are still good and air can't purge out just normal driving. They do need to turn to the extremes of stops as the same fluid is in the rack force those out. If wet with lube debris is less likely even if not bled out fully but not out of the picture.


OMG - variables are endless, risks are high. How the heck is anyone sure the replacement part (near always rebuilt for these things) is in fact OK at all? Most are redone from a failed one perhaps beyond what should have been done but gets along and sold anyway. That totally stinks and too common. IDK - how do any of us know the "rebuilder" had a way to test one or did they if so?


I'd like to see input from other regulars here as I may be missing something critical but this problem repeating itself exactly is proof it isn't being done right nor diagnosed right.
I'm lost for the moment off on thinking of what else could do this repeatedly WITHOUT this in front of me. For all I know right now the rack was hit by something, hoisted by it prior to all this and damaged, falling off it's mounts and doesn't show any problem till the weight of the car is on it and steering it. Stuff like that we can't see or guess at or every thread becomes a total program on how to become an experienced tech. That doesn't happen on a web site,


Tom



j_c.1982
User

Dec 6, 2017, 8:11 AM

Post #11 of 20 (391 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Then i will have to look into bleeding it in a more correct way. Im a security guard, not a mechanic, and the experience you speak of; thats what im trying to gain at the moment. lol. thats why i went to youtube to find out about all of this. im re-watching some videos now.

You mentioned maybe the rack may have been hit. that is not out of the realm of possibility. This Focus sits so low to the ground and the tires are so thin that even a small pothole sounds like the end of the world (it was bought this way. i hadnt even considered how low it sat. i probably wouldnt have bought it if i had considered it).

Thank you for your time and advice. it is very appreciated.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Dec 6, 2017, 10:40 AM

Post #12 of 20 (378 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Smile at the "experience" factor. You don't have the time and could never break even with the cost of equipment, space to do stuff and be paying total attention. The world has gone somehow making people thing you can do open heart surgery if you find it on YouTube or another which is such bullshat it's scary.
I'll leave out how many things I screwed up on countless cars I've owned near all given to me either worked out or once just find the same thing and make one great one. Too dang many different cars, trucks and changes so quickly like YOU just said cars sit so low now. That alone is real high on my "stupid" idea list. Roads stink where I am and is a snow belt if too low bust everything on underside if not familiar plowed snow banks if wet when plowed is as solid at rocks you drive over does the same type of damage way too easily.
Just don't rule it out on this. Rack and pinion is mounted to absorb vibrations but can wear out bushings and be the problem. Worse some you need lift the engine up to get at!


I want you to win just careful of mis-info out there on stuff. I would have to be exactly your make, model and year for a lot of things or doesn't count.
Have a couple things to do other than this site but keep looking and thinking. It's infectious to do stuff yourself never mind if it saves a buck. Sometimes it doesn't like now bet this will end up even if you finish it totally more costly than if done right the first time early enough too. Still not the point the experience from just this unless you do several with the same problems chalk it up to just learning what to take on and what not to as best you can,


Tom



j_c.1982
User

Dec 6, 2017, 10:51 AM

Post #13 of 20 (374 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Sorry, i didnt see your reply until now : (


Quote
Is the fluid full of bubbles?


Yes, the fluid is foamy with bubbles.


j_c.1982
User

Dec 6, 2017, 10:55 AM

Post #14 of 20 (372 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In


Quote
Let me add one thing that I have seen in the past. If you have a remote reservoir, the line between the reservoir and the pump can have a small leak. What happens is that instead of leaking fluid, it allows the pump to suck air instead of fluid and causes the fluid to get aerated and cause noises.


There is no remote reservoir. Ive replaced the high pressure hose (which goes from under the pump directly to the rack), and the low pressure return hose (which goes directly from the reservoir to the rack).


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 6, 2017, 11:15 AM

Post #15 of 20 (368 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

OK, I checked. You don't have a remote reservoir but you do have a removable reservoir. In between there is an "O" ring that can cause the same problem if it's bad.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Dec 6, 2017, 11:16 AM)


j_c.1982
User

Dec 7, 2017, 3:53 AM

Post #16 of 20 (344 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In


In Reply To
OK, I checked. You don't have a remote reservoir but you do have a removable reservoir. In between there is an "O" ring that can cause the same problem if it's bad.

That is a possibility also, one i hadnt considered. When i first replaced the ps pump and was putting the reservoir back on, i broke that little "nozzle" off by twisting the reservoir the wrong way. I went to pick n pull and got a replacement. so i will check the o-rings on that nozzle and see if they are bad. Thank you : )


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 7, 2017, 4:39 AM

Post #17 of 20 (342 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

You can't "see" if an O-ring is bad. You just need to replace it.

It never should have gone together without replacing the O-ring



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



j_c.1982
User

Dec 13, 2017, 6:02 AM

Post #18 of 20 (318 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

Just posting an update.

I ordered a hand vacuum pump from amazon, and bled it that way. Its been nice and quiet for a few days now. So i guess the problem was that i hadnt bled it properly. Anyway, thank you to everyone that helped, i cant thank you enough : )


(This post was edited by j_c.1982 on Dec 13, 2017, 6:03 AM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Dec 13, 2017, 7:39 AM

Post #19 of 20 (309 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In

I kinda doubt that was the issue. These things pretty much bleed themselves because the air rises to the top overnight.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



j_c.1982
User

Dec 14, 2017, 1:21 AM

Post #20 of 20 (290 views)
Re: 2007 Ford Focus Power Steering Groaning Sign In


In Reply To
I kinda doubt that was the issue. These things pretty much bleed themselves because the air rises to the top overnight.


I dont know. it was noisy until i vacuum bled it, and has been quiet ever since. Either the vacuum bleed fixed it, or it coincidentally fixed itself at the same time that i bled it (im not a mechanic, so i wouldnt rule that out. lol).






  Email This Post
 
 


Feed Button




Search for (options) Privacy Sitemap

shopify
site analytics