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connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car


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kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 17, 2017, 11:44 AM

Post #1 of 20 (1017 views)
connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

I have a 1987 Honda civic 1.5 l. The carburetor went bad and I sent it to a factory. I got the carburetor back. It was put on the car but the car has extreme high idle. I have 2 questions. I can not find the person who took off the carburetor. I do not how to connect the wire of the fuel cutoff solenoid to the car. The fuel cutoff solenoid is on the carburetor and the wire of the fuel cutoff solenoid is not connected to any thing. To an extreme I need to know what do I do with the wire. The second question is I thought the car would not turn on if the wire of the fuel cutoff solenoid was not connected to the car but the car turns on. The solenoid has 2 wires - I think this connects to a thing that ends up with 1 wire - I do not know any thing about cars that is why I call it a thing. I guess this thing ends up around a thing that the oxygen sensor is connected to. There are 2 wires sitting around this place. There are 2 wires from the cover of the air filter hanging down over the 3 wires - the 3 wires are the end of the wire of the solenoid and 2 wires sitting there not connected to any thing. I am sorry that I am not good at naming the parts of the car. I have a big mess. Thank you for any answers. Kurt Stocklmeir


Sidom
Veteran / Moderator
Sidom profile image

Jun 17, 2017, 2:07 PM

Post #2 of 20 (1003 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Some pictures of this would be very helpful






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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jun 17, 2017, 3:50 PM

Post #3 of 20 (978 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Wild try here! There was a "3BL Carb" listed for this thing that model year and a fuel cut off appears to be a solenoid in a diagram that probably will not show wired to ignition switch.


Pic if it shows I try first and check...........

^^^^ Was there?
Seem to show.


Also seems this can run on just the third which is called an auxiliary which could pick up fuel if other items failed IMO by looking at the set up. Never saw this which isn't helping.


So since Kyle isn't a tech by admission but savvy enough to seek help see what I can do?
Kyle - The wire (one?) that isn't connected if you have the right carburetor back intact could just be a ground wire? It is unlikely to run well or at all without that connected so if you see the type of wire connector look for one it can reach and matches. Oh my friend, plug in anything almost always can't be mixed all up they shape plugs in male/female types that don't fit even sideways or upside down just one way or will not connect. Look for it.


If the end you have now and don't know it might just be a plastic covered "spade" terminal meant to ground to an exposed male spade or vs versa but a ground doesn't have to be covered by plastic at both ends so think the end you don't see is just a bit of metal to hook that wire up to.


That's totally guessing - never worked on one of these for anything to do with fuel at all so zero recall of how it's set up at all.


This is VERY late for a carburetor not the point but coincides with the era of shutting down fuel for vehicles in the event of a collision mostly. It has a mechanical fuel pump so that shouldn't be necessary if smashed from the front engine wouldn't run nor would the fuel pump so self shuts off in a hard wreck if so like about anything before fuel safety shut off anything.


It's worse and you need to find out who at least put this thing back on since you can't find the person who took it off?


You could if all is failing take several good pictures yourself and post them here as Discretesignals suggested. I did find in the hunt for a whole carb many were converted to an aftermarket just 2BBL is what should be called or a "barrel" not just "BL" which is listed a couple places so not a typo?


I'm beginning to think the purge valve is incapable of only running vapor or fuel one way and the problem was misdiagnosed but can't know Jack without this in front of me.


It's unsafe of course so beware and quit running it until it's known all hooked up properly and pics on line are NOT helping at all been everywhere looking for the exact one in place - found none,


T



(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jun 17, 2017, 4:22 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jun 17, 2017, 4:12 PM

Post #4 of 20 (970 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

This is a pretty complicated setup.






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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jun 17, 2017, 4:44 PM

Post #5 of 20 (963 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Hard to read but that helps. I see tons or wired grounds as my guess that posted before this. It's probably grounded just by being back on mostly so would work without a ground for some things just a verification those items are getting true intended grounding a very Honda and late carb type thing to do,


T



Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jun 17, 2017, 4:48 PM

Post #6 of 20 (959 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

This is an emissions nightmare. The point is that it has more solenoids than the engine has valves.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jun 17, 2017, 5:00 PM

Post #7 of 20 (955 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Yup - a nightmare. Hunted for almost an hour to find out most parts were to put a Holly made 2V on this! TMK Japan for itself had stricter emission requirements than even Calif. here for years so were early to adapt to sell to the US and put up with that nightmare longer probably perfect on CAD/CAM but useless on a real road for long,


T



kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 19, 2017, 11:35 AM

Post #8 of 20 (907 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Thank you for all answers. This has made me go insane. For about 1.5 years this carburetor acted bad and it started about the same time the head gasket broke. There was not any reason for the head gasket to break. The carburetor was sent to a factory and the whole thing was about 350 dollars. It is California emissions but the car is not going back to California. It is 3 barrels and I think there is some thing called lamba on the carburetor. I think if lamba changes a small amount the carburetor will not work - my carburetor does not have a plastic cap on lamba to stop people from changing it - I do not think this is true but the guy who put the carburetor back on the car may have changed it a small amount. The guy who put the carburetor back on the car said some thing like since I do not have a muffler the wire of the fuel cut off solenoid probably does not need to be connected to the car and this is associated with the oxygen sensor. I thought the car would not turn if the wire of the fuel cut off solenoid is not connected to the car. My solenoid has 2 wires. Some solenoids have 1 wire I think positive and the solenoid is connected through the carburetor to the car and this acts like 1 wire I think negative. The factory partly did not do a good job. The new fuel cut off solenoid had 1 wire that was messed up. The guy used my old fuel cut off solenoid. The car started but the idle was like 6000 rpm. The guy said the high idle may be is associated with changing the fuel cut off solenoid. The guy said he would put the new fuel cut off solenoid on the carburetor but he has not had time. It could be true using the old fuel cut off solenoid is making the idle go insane. I think the factory will tune the carburetors because it is almost impossible to find a person who can tune a carburetor that is about 30 years old. The factory is national carburetor and I think they say there is a warranty that goes on as long as the person owns the car but the guy at Bap Geon said it is only for 6 months - I did this through Bap Geon - I may have about 2 months before the warranty ends. I paid about 350 dollars to Bap Geon. I paid people to take off and put on the carburetor and play around trying to find out why there is a high idle. I spent a lot of money and I do not have a lot of time for the warranty. I do not think I can take pictures because I do not have a camera. I can see 5 wires that are not connected to any thing around where the wire of the oxygen sensor connects to the car. 1 wire is from the fuel cut off solenoid - I think the 2 wires from the fuel cut off solenoid end up as 1 wire at the end of the wire. 2 wires are hanging down from the cover that goes over the carburetor and the air filter. 2 wires are sitting under the wires that are hanging down. They all have the same size connections. I can look at the wires red and black to help know what wires are connected - negative and positive. May be 1 wire does not connect to any thing but I am probably wrong about this. The guys who are working on my car tend to know what they are doing like 1 guy is about 60 and he has been a car mechanic for about 50 years. The guys are my friends. The car is about 30 years old and a lot of mechanics do not know how to fix it because they have not seen 1 of these cars for a long time. I have not ever heard of a carburetor needing to be tuned because of a new fuel cut off solenoid. Please help if you can. This has been going on for about 1.5 years and the warranty may end soon. I plan to say a lot of prayers for any person who tries to help. Thank you. Kurt Stocklmeir


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Jun 19, 2017, 12:07 PM

Post #9 of 20 (905 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Kurt - Head gaskets can just rot from age not necessarily from overheating - it's old we know that. If it did overheat that heat didn't do the carb any favors then or a delay.
What do you mean no muffler? By context you meant to say catalytic converter which it would do better if it had one and must have the O2 sensor before it at least or you are just fudging with what was a nightmare new.
When carbs are redone it's greatly just cleaning and setting what you can OFF vehicle. The final setting should only be idle speed if you sent it out or bought an entire new one.


The wire isn't there to be unplugged - period. Honda knows enough not to waste an inch wire or anything not really needed so there's a total reason for it. Where's the other end or a spot meant to put it?


Hey - above all you are paying for this work. Friends or not as well they could have said I'm not touching that one and send it along for you or just say so. If an old phart like me got one of these I'd just buy the stupid kit still available and rebuild it myself. If I couldn't get all parts and know ahead of time refuse the work even if free to you and do plenty of that.


If your techs are having a hard time it's really up to them to figure it all out not the customer. If a freebie and they are all messed up that's another issue.


Pics: You shouldn't need your own what I was looking for is pics already taken out there and there are just didn't stumble on exactly a real car with parts removed to show everything about how it should look if OE and untouched new or older.


Other is to get direct info for this specific carb maybe even thru Honda. It's extra messy because it's CA equipped or do you know? The car should say so on a sticker underhood or another sticker that someone moved to CA and it was made CA compliant maybe ages ago now?


Speak for myself you are asking for others about your car but not a tech is 10 times harder now. It's info is available exactly how it was set up new and would likely be different for CA only in that year. You might have to pay for that info then would be possibly a paper book now on a download but still if paying for this work it's really up to them for the final decision to make this run properly.


The exception to this nightmare is if this car is in general lousy shape and lots of stuff altered to just make it run at all then all bets off this isn't going to either get expensive as all get out or take a lot longer to collect the specific info for this very late and last year they did this on Hondas - I did find that out,


Tom



kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 19, 2017, 12:47 PM

Post #10 of 20 (901 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Thank you for all answers. This whole thing is a mess. The car is about 30 years old but only 157,000 miles. I did not ever have any trouble with the car for about 29 years. The car has a lot of new parts. Not including the trouble that I am having the car is probably better than any new car. I always took care of the car. The head gasket was fixed. The carburetor was sent to national carburetor - the carburetor now has almost all new parts like new floats, seals, fuel cut off solenoid - remanufactured carburetor. The car does not have a muffler. The oxygen sensor is new and connected to the car. I do not know any thing about cars - I guess the guy does not think the wire of the fuel cut off solenoid needs to be connected because the oxygen sensor will not create good information if the car does not have a muffler. I do not know where the wire of the fuel cut off solenoid connects to. I see 5 wires - that leaves 1 extra wire - where does it connect to. There are 2 wires that hang down from the cover of the air filter - it looks like 1 wire goes in the cover and comes out not doing any thing. I do not know why 1 wire would go into the cover and come out to connect to a wire under it. I do not know - do fuel cut off solenoids open more and close more as the car changes speed or do they open when the car starts and closes when the car stops. Thank you for any answers. Kurt Stocklmeir


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jun 19, 2017, 1:34 PM

Post #11 of 20 (896 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

OK, first, It doesn't matter if it's going back to Cali or not. The car was manufactured with a setup that would be legal in the state of California. That system is there to stay. You can't make it a non-California car now. It will always be a California car and you are stuck with the emissions systems that it was built with.

LAMBDA, Lambda is a condition, not a part. Lambda means ideal air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1

It really depends on exactly what that solenoid is. If that is an M/C solenoid (mixture control), that means it is an 0/2 feedback system and the car has a computer that operates that solenoid to a specific dwell angle for mixture control. Does the car have an 0/2 sensor?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 20, 2017, 11:55 AM

Post #12 of 20 (869 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Thank you for all answers. The car has a new oxygen sensor and it is connected to the car. The solenoid is on the back of the carburetor. I do not know any thing about cars - I think these carburetors have a fuel cut off solenoid.

Link deleted ...................... not allowed
Kurt Stocklmeir


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 20, 2017, 5:09 PM)


kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 20, 2017, 12:00 PM

Post #13 of 20 (864 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

I found this picture on the internet - that is what my solenoid looks like - it goes on the back of the carburetor.
Link deleted ................... not allowed
Kurt Stocklmeir


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 20, 2017, 5:10 PM)


kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 20, 2017, 12:36 PM

Post #14 of 20 (858 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

I found this picture on the internet - it looks a lot like my carburetor. The green thing is associated with the wire of the solenoid. The guy connected the green thing to a plastic connection that has a wire - I do not know where the wire goes. Thank you.

Link deleted ............... not allowed
Kurt Stocklmeir


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 20, 2017, 5:11 PM)


kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 20, 2017, 12:56 PM

Post #15 of 20 (856 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

I found this picture on the internet it is a lot like my engine. The metal cover for the air filter has a black rubber thing - 2 wires hang down from the rubber thing. There are 2 wires sitting around the same part of the car. 1 wire from the solenoid of the carburetor ends up around the same part of the car. All of these wires - under the 2 red hoses for gas - a little to the right of the battery - under the black rubber thing.

Link deleted ....................... not allowed
Thank you for any answers.
Kurt Stocklmeir


(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 20, 2017, 5:12 PM)


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Jun 20, 2017, 1:03 PM

Post #16 of 20 (854 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

If you don't know anything about cars, playing with this old Honda's fuel system is definitely not for a novice. I remember those systems and they were very difficult to work on and get to run correctly even for a professional. If the emissions controller isn't working, it won't control the mixture of the carb and it will run like junk. If your on here asking questions for your mechanic, you need to find another mechanic. That vehicle needs to be troubleshot in person and not over the internet.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jun 20, 2017, 5:13 PM

Post #17 of 20 (828 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

Please stop posting links. They are not allowed here.

As DS stated, getting this motor running right would be a tough job for most professionals and that is definitely not you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 21, 2017, 10:56 AM

Post #18 of 20 (811 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

I did not know link are bad.
Kurt Stocklmeir


(This post was edited by kurtstocklmeir on Jun 21, 2017, 11:02 AM)


kurtstocklmeir
Novice

Jun 21, 2017, 10:59 AM

Post #19 of 20 (809 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

I will stop putting links here. I did not know that was bad. I am new.
Kurt Stocklmeir


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jun 21, 2017, 11:29 AM

Post #20 of 20 (803 views)
Re: connect fuel cut off solenoid wire to car Sign In

No problem. We realize that.

FORUM RULES



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.







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