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Need help flushing a very dirty radiator
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Imknifes
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Jul 30, 2010, 4:57 PM
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Need help flushing a very dirty radiator
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Hi guys and Gals first post here. I recently went to a friends car to help him with his car problems, and after checking his coolant reservoir i noticed that he mixed orange dex-cool with the existing green radiator fluid because after sticking my finger in the res. the fluid was very thick and greasy. How would i go about flushing a radiator this bad? Could i just try to drain the radiator (if even possible because the fluid is so thick) and fill with a flush? Or would i need something with some pressure to it like a hose and stick the hose into the radiator fill hole and let it run through the radiator with the drain plug out? Thank you for your help.
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Hammer Time
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Jul 30, 2010, 5:16 PM
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I don't know what your seeing there but mixing Dexcool with regular coolant won't do that. They are completely compatible with each other and will cause no issues at all. You could have rusty sludge build up or you may be getting oil in the coolant for one reason or another.
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Imknifes
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Jul 30, 2010, 5:26 PM
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thats interesting because ive read alot of replies on other forums that is exactly what happens when you mix two different types of coolants. My auto tech teacher also has said this is what happens if you dont fully flush the previous coolant before adding a new type. I am not saying your wrong at all they could all very likely be wrong and your right. I will just have to see what others have to say on this matter. I thank you for your speedy reply sir.
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Hammer Time
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Jul 30, 2010, 5:30 PM
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I'm telling you they are all wrong. The only thing different about Dexcool is that it is silicate free. that's what makes it last 5 years. When it is mixed with green coolant, it all becomes a 2 year coolant as the green was. Some testing has shown increased corrosion when mixed but that opinions differs. If you have a slime, you need to find out if it is oil based or rust based because that will determine what you use to clean it. You could have a leaking trans cooler that mixed trans fluid with the coolant.
Here is some info
Background and reasons for our recommendation. Until 1995 most automotive coolants sold in North America were compatible with one another. Heavy truck owners were beginning to use some more sophisticated technologies, but a lot of those customers were using the same coolant that they had for 20 years! In general, buying quality antifreeze and mixing it 50-50 with water was the only requirement. Big truck operators needed supplemental coolant additives (SCAs) to protect diesel engines.
Oh how the situation has changed! GM cars now use DEX-COOL. Though still an ethylene glycol based coolant, the anti corrosion chemistries are dramatically different.
As a laboratory compatibility test, we intentionally mixed DEX-COOL with a conventional coolant and subjected the mixture to a sample of fresh aluminum. The resulting data suggests that aluminum corrodes at an accelerated rate when subjected to this mix compared to pure DEX-COOL or pure conventional coolant. As a result, Amalgatech recommends that the coolants not be mixed.
Further, it is our experience that it is best to maintain GM vehicles with genuine DEX-COOL through the warranty period of 5 years, 150,000 miles. After the extended cooling system warranty has expired, the end user is on his own anyway, so any quality extended service coolant is a good choice. PEAK® and Prestone® both have products that are available. It’s best to stay with extended life coolants in the 1995 and newer GM cars.
Note 1. DEX-COOL was initially dyed orange. In 2000 model year cars, most of the GM coolants that we’ve seen are pink in color. All of the aftermarket supply that we’ve seen so far however, remains orange.
Note 2. Ford presented a technical paper years ago that concluded that the conventional ‘green’ factory fill coolant that they used was just as durable as carboxylate-inhibited coolants, like DEX-COOL. Nevertheless, Ford and Daimler-Chrysler both appear to be changing to an advanced hybrid technology in the 2001 or 2002 model year cars. This coolant is easy to identify because it is golden yellow. It offers the same extended life benefits as DEX-COOL, but without the compatibility questions. Further, it meets the new ASTM D6210 specification so it can be used in diesel trucks.
Note 3. The diesel engine community has now embraced fully-formulated coolant as defined by ASTM D6210. These coolants do not require any initial additives, but for diesels they must be supplemented. Most can be operated for the life of the engine, using advanced maintenance strategies such as the Penray Need-Release® or Fleetguard ‘ES’® filter systems. $$$
Editor: Ed Eaton is Chief Engineer of Amalgamated Laboratories.
E-mail at: ereaton@amalgatech.com.
NEW LABORATORY ADDRESS AND PHONE!
2965 West Osborn Road, Phoenix, AZ 85017-4927
Phone: 602-252-0280; Fax: 602-252-0282
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 30, 2010, 5:35 PM)
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Imknifes
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Jul 30, 2010, 5:36 PM
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How would i go about that, just by touching it or get a little test kit and test the fluid? When i stuck my finger in there it was very sticky and very thick almost like the grease you would use to repack wheel bearings with. And when you look further down into the res. you can see chunks of deposit or whatever floating ontop of the fluid. Not sure if it is rust or coagulated fluids
fluid
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Hammer Time
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Jul 30, 2010, 5:38 PM
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Take a chunk and see if it dissolves in gas. If so, it is oil based.,
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Hammer Time
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Jul 30, 2010, 5:54 PM
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I was having trouble capturing the whole thing from a PDF file. Here is the complete paragraph about compatibility
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 30, 2010, 6:16 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Jul 30, 2010, 7:53 PM
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EG = Ethylene Glycol. Both DexCool and so called green stuff are both EG. DexCool has additives and is dyed to an orange pinkish color for what GM wanted as a 5 year antifreeze - that's about it.
EG is colorless by itself. Tons of product out there is now colorless and states can be added to any EG system. IMO mixing types defeats the longevity of anti corrosives and alone that's about it.
There are some so called non toxic products out there - not EG at all. That I wouldn't mix but would only expect less life to the additives to prevent corrosion.
If you want to go blind reading about antifreezes go to www.GoHTSN.com ---- HTSN stands for "heat transfer service news" full of info about as interesting as watching paint dry! Site isn't selling anything - it's a news site for the heat transfer folks be it A/C or engine cooling....... John Hess runs it at IMCOOl@IMCOOL.com ,
T
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Imknifes
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Aug 1, 2010, 6:49 AM
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Thanks for all your help guys we flushed the radiator successfully i think. Only thing is the res. was very very dirty and we need a solution on how to get it clean we tried dish soap and tonic water to try and lift all the sludge off but its stuck in there very well, any suggestions? And because it was so dirty we left the res off the radiator and left the radiator empty for the time being is this going to cause any problems to the radiator because there is no fluid inside of it? Thanks again for all your help.
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Hammer Time
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Aug 1, 2010, 7:03 AM
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If you have the tank removed from the vehicle, you can use a toilet bowl cleaner on the inside. Most of those cleaners require water to activate them. In a worst case scenario, muriatic acid will clean it but you have to be very careful handling that stuff. You don't want to breathe it or touch it.
Be careful of any rubber parts using either of those but especially the muriatic acid.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 1, 2010, 7:04 AM)
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Imknifes
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Aug 1, 2010, 7:58 AM
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ok ill try the toilet bowl cleaner and the rubber res. hose is still attached to the res. we couldnt get the clamp off the holds the hose onto the res. so we had to take off the clamp that holds the hose onto the nipple just under the radiator cap. And because it was a 98 the clamp was rusted badly and when we tried removing it the clamp snapped so it may be kinda hard to stop the toilet bowl cleaner from getting into the rubber hose. There was some kind of crazy plastic alligator clamp on the top portion of the hose we had no idea how to get it off without breaking it off.
And its ok to leave the radiator dry for the time being? The car is just gonna sit there till we get the res clean were not gonna try to start it or anything.
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Hammer Time
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Aug 1, 2010, 8:02 AM
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As long as you have the tank completely removed from the vehicle and not connected in any way so it can be thoroughly rinsed when your done, you shouldn't have a problem.
Swish around the pure cleaner first and then add some water and swish again.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Aug 1, 2010, 8:03 AM)
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Imknifes
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Aug 1, 2010, 8:45 AM
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you think it would be easier to go to a junkyard and see if they got one? Im not sure if they are a rare find or anything. Cause the sludge is in places thats impossible to reach with and kind of brush
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Tom Greenleaf
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Aug 1, 2010, 9:08 AM
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Quick re-read. What type car is this? Is a new radiator that expensive that you want to risk used? Some salvage yard are real good and specially check out used radiators and other parts and some it's just AYOR.
Guess is radiator could catch most junk but what does engine side look like as seen thru thermosat when removed?
Near all engines have plugs on lower sides of water jackets to fully drain and flush block of engine. Make sure you know which ones and some will be clogged so just a fine wire will clear the hole if plugged there too.
If engine just wont flush out this could be trouble or a ton of work,
T
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Imknifes
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Aug 1, 2010, 9:42 AM
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its a 98 monte carlo z34 the old radiator fluid was fine, nice and consistent no chunks of debris. Also when i took the radiator cap off and looked at the fluid in the radiator that looked great as well. Just the resevoir was very nasty because of the coolant mixing with air for so long, he hasnt driven this car for close to a year its just been sitting in his front yard. I didnt check the thermostat i only had a handful of tools with me, we were gonna change that out once it was driveable and he can get it here where i have some proper tools, its so hard working at a friends house that owns 0 tools and has his car parked on grass. So the radiator is fine from what i can see (fluid clean and flushed it once with water) its just the resevoir tank is disgusting, was just wondering if it would be easier to pick one up from the boneyard instead of spending an hour or two scrubbing this sticky sludge off of crevices impossible to reach.
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Hammer Time
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Aug 1, 2010, 10:24 AM
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All we're talking about here is a reserve tank. A brand new one is likely very cheap from the dealer. They aren't expensive.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Imknifes
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Aug 1, 2010, 10:55 AM
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its all good we just rinsed it out with thinner and it takes it right off
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Hammer Time
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Aug 1, 2010, 11:04 AM
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That will eat the rubber and level sensor right out of it.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Imknifes
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Aug 1, 2010, 2:31 PM
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yea we figured that much we got the rubber hose off and there wasnt any type of sensor on his res. everything was hard plastic. He has more serious problems now, turn his car on and it starts smoking from the front of the engine. His car is a mess.
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