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Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem


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Thumper0911
New User

May 18, 2013, 8:39 AM

Post #1 of 10 (20530 views)
  post locked   Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  

I'm not a mechanic, or even close to being one. I bought a 2009 Ford Escape brand new from my local Ford dealer (Holiday Ford, Peterborough, Ontario, Canada), and always had it serviced there. From the end of the second year I started having air conditioning problems (a/c blowing hot). The dealer 'repaired' it and charged me for it, three times over the course of fourteen months. I had to store the vehicle for six months, and then, when it started again, guess what? So back to the dealer we go! (A 40 mile journey...each way!) Now they tell me that there is "a bag of chemicals in the air conditioning system which has degraded...when this happens the chemicals blow throughout the system, damaging everything...the entire a/c system will need to be replaced". Interestingly, Ford put out a service bulletin to the dealers three years ago about this problem. I have a couple of concerns here. The first is that if these chemicals are damaging the air conditioning system to that extent, what have they done to the health of my family and myself? Secondly, I asked the dealer to go back to Ford and get authorization to repair this under the warranty extension...from that point forward, the Service Department got difficult to get through to. I had made the point that they had attempted to repair, and charged me for those 'repairs' on three separate occasions before the vehicle went out of the warranty and the warranty extension, and it wasn't until AFTER that, that they decided that this repair was the "REAL" problem. Several calls were not taken, and messages were not returned over a two week period. There is NO QUESTION that they were avoiding me and hoping that I would go away. Finally, I drove back to the dealership (yeah...ANOTHER 40 miles each way). When I tracked down the service advisor whom I had been dealing with, he said that there was nothing that they could do to help me, because the vehicle was now out of warranty, and that the repair was going to cost $2,100! I called Ford Customer Care, and got the usual scripted runaround, and no help whatsoever! Now I will take the vehicle to a mechanic whom I trust (what choice do I have, really?) and I guess we'll see what he thinks is wrong and what it will cost to fix!!! If you have an a/c problem with an Escape (or for that matter ANY Ford) take it right back to the dealer and DEMAND that they check this chemical pack! At least that way, you'll get their incredibly poor and unsafe design fixed before the car is out of warranty, because they clearly have no intention of issuing a recall or fixing the problem any other way! And if you were considering purchasing a Ford, I would bear my awful lesson here in mind. By the way, I have all of the vehicle's service records and repair documentation to substantiate everything that I've said here, about both the vehicle and my treatment by the Dealer.

I can remember a time when Ford used to publicly that "Quality is Job 1!" These days, I'm pretty convinced that poor design, dealer honesty and incompetence, and utter indifference to the customer are competing for first place, and I'm really not sure which one is winning.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 18, 2013, 9:50 AM

Post #2 of 10 (20502 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  

Shoot - No telling what they might have done for those three time. Most common reason for no cooling is low charge due to a leak. What did they do those three times to fix it? You may not know but see if receipts tell anything.

If they used sealer that can gunk up the whole system if it doesn't work perfectly the first time some will make junk when charge is lost. Can't say, not there.

Other and a bit rare for this is "desiccant" which is a moisture absorbing thing held in the accumulator dryer could have blown thru the system. Whether an accumulator or receiver dryer used in X valve set ups either could do that.

Yes you could need a ton of new stuff to fix this but I suggest getting a Canadian certified A/C shop to give you another opinion. I haven't heard of too many desiccant failures tossing crap thru a system but stuff can happen.

Look at what they claim they did on the receipts going back. My guess is you are out of luck with them or Ford for help with this,

T



HT
User

May 18, 2013, 9:51 AM

Post #3 of 10 (20499 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  

They must be referring to the accumulator which contains a desiccant bag which are drying crystals. The bag can deteriorate but it's kinda rare and it should have been replaced with the previous repairs anyway. It should be replaced whenever the system is opened and you don't have these problems.

I would really be pissed if they did me that way. I would argue that they should have already replaced that and you want the damaged repaired at no cost. You need to talk to their regional office and meet with the regional service manager. That is his job.


Stomopolis64
New User

May 23, 2013, 8:24 PM

Post #4 of 10 (20419 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  

Hey, I just found out that I have the exact same problem.
This is an issue that Ford knows about. It is an engineering defect
that will cause the breakdown of the desiccant material cup and
releasing the particles clogging the A/C unit, causing complete system
failure. Ford has known of this defect since Aug 2012. The faulty design
is in 2009-2012 Ford Escape and some Mariners. My warranty just
conveniently ended as well and I am currently fighting with
them too. Just search for "2009-2012 Ford Escape desiccant material,
you'll find a whole lot of people who are in the same boat. Not sure
if the desiccant material would be toxic, I was wondering that myself.
I guess I'll research that now. Don't back down!! There is no preventative
maintenance that could be performed to stop the failure, so that means the
dealership can't say well, you didn't get all the recommended
services. There is none to prevent this issue. They knew about this problem
close to a year ago and kept it under their hats. In my opinion, in hopes
of peoples warranties running out so they didn't have to foot the bill.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 24, 2013, 3:23 AM

Post #5 of 10 (20410 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  

No, this is not a widespread problem for this vehicle any more than any other vehicle as they all use the same components with just different piping. Nearly all the related articles originated from the same person who has blogged everywhere they could. There are no TSBs issued by the manufacturer and it could never fall under any type of recall category so don't make it something it isn't.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

May 24, 2013, 4:43 AM

Post #6 of 10 (20402 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  


In Reply To
I'm not a mechanic, or even close to being one. I bought a 2009 Ford Escape brand new from my local Ford dealer (Holiday Ford, Peterborough, Ontario, Canada), and always had it serviced there. From the end of the second year I started having air conditioning problems (a/c blowing hot). The dealer 'repaired' it and charged me for it, three times over the course of fourteen months. I had to store the vehicle for six months, and then, when it started again, guess what? So back to the dealer we go! (A 40 mile journey...each way!) Now they tell me that there is "a bag of chemicals in the air conditioning system which has degraded...when this happens the chemicals blow throughout the system, damaging everything...the entire a/c system will need to be replaced". Interestingly, Ford put out a service bulletin to the dealers three years ago about this problem. I have a couple of concerns here. The first is that if these chemicals are damaging the air conditioning system to that extent, what have they done to the health of my family and myself? Secondly, I asked the dealer to go back to Ford and get authorization to repair this under the warranty extension...from that point forward, the Service Department got difficult to get through to. I had made the point that they had attempted to repair, and charged me for those 'repairs' on three separate occasions before the vehicle went out of the warranty and the warranty extension, and it wasn't until AFTER that, that they decided that this repair was the "REAL" problem. Several calls were not taken, and messages were not returned over a two week period. There is NO QUESTION that they were avoiding me and hoping that I would go away. Finally, I drove back to the dealership (yeah...ANOTHER 40 miles each way). When I tracked down the service advisor whom I had been dealing with, he said that there was nothing that they could do to help me, because the vehicle was now out of warranty, and that the repair was going to cost $2,100! I called Ford Customer Care, and got the usual scripted runaround, and no help whatsoever! Now I will take the vehicle to a mechanic whom I trust (what choice do I have, really?) and I guess we'll see what he thinks is wrong and what it will cost to fix!!! taIf you have an a/c problem with an Escape (or for that matter ANY Ford)ke it right back to the dealer and DEMAND that they check this chemical pack! At least that way, you'll get their incredibly poor and unsafe design fixed before the car is out of warranty, because they clearly have no intention of issuing a recall or fixing the problem any other way! And if you were considering purchasing a Ford, I would bear my awful lesson here in mind. By the way, I have all of the vehicle's service records and repair documentation to substantiate everything that I've said here, about both the vehicle and my treatment by the Dealer.

I can remember a time when Ford used to publicly that "Quality is Job 1!" These days, I'm pretty convinced that poor design, dealer honesty and incompetence, and utter indifference to the customer are competing for first place, and I'm really not sure which one is winning. ____________________________________________________ A re-read of this just smacks of Ford bashing. Quote "If you have an a/c problem with an Escape (or for that matter ANY Ford)ke it right back to the dealer and DEMAND that they check this chemical pack!" *********************** Oh yes, let's blame all Fords. That desiccant TMK is not some deadly poison it just can like any get spewed thru a system and choke on it, lube could quit for compressor and other parts that can't effectively be flushed of debris from any cause. Also mentioned that this is such a danger to the family? So don't use gas, oil, antifreeze, or any other fluid in any vehicle. OP has never been back and IMO this thread serves no purpose to anyone, T




Thumper0911
New User

May 24, 2013, 11:44 AM

Post #7 of 10 (20389 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  

I'm really not sure to what to make of the above! Are all of this site's moderators such bullies? I'm not "Ford Bashing" at all...simply describing my experiences in dealing with Ford on this problem. Telling me to 'take it back to the dealer' demonstrates how little of the actual post you actually READ, despite re-posting it in its' entirety...it's been back to the Dealer no less than FOUR TIMES, and I've had no joy with Ford Customer Care either! They've HAD every opp ortunity to fix this problem. With respect to the 'chemicals', the terminology which I used is word for word what the Dealer's Service Advisor told me. I can hardly be faulted for wondering about toxicity, when I raised the issue of toxicity with both the Service Advisor and Ford Customer Care, at no time did anyone attempt to reassure me or inform me that it wasn't toxic! As I said, I have every bit of documentation related to this entire mess, and Ford's utter failure to fix it. Not only that, but try Googling this specific problem with Ford Escapes, and see how long it has been going on and how many other people are having this same problem! That, sir, isn't 'Ford Bashing'...it's reporting a serious problem, warning others about it, and trying to find solutions. If that isn't the purpose of this forum, perhaps I'm in the wrong place, and if you haven't figured out that a moderator on a forum is supposed to be neutral and not jump all over someone who they disagree with...with all due respect, perhaps you are too. Just my thoughts...


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 24, 2013, 12:20 PM

Post #8 of 10 (20385 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  


Quote
That, sir, isn't 'Ford Bashing'...it's reporting a serious problem, warning others about it, and trying to find solutions.


From that statement it appears that you are simply here to have an audience to air your complaints about Ford. If that is the case, then yes, you are at the wrong forum. This forum is staffed by a small group of active and retired professional technicians that donate their time to help people with technical problems with their vehicle. You were told very early in this thread exactly what happened and why. There will be no further ranting about people in out trade. We aren't here to gicve you an audience to "warn others about it" as you state. There is nothing specific about your vehicle that warrants warning anyone.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Thumper0911
New User

May 24, 2013, 1:58 PM

Post #9 of 10 (20363 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  

Fascinating! This will be my last post here, frankly you've lost your credibility with me. To clarify, I'm not out to bash your profession, but EVERY profession has those who just don't meet the expected standards. On 26 Aug 12, Ford issued a Special Service Message (22492 - 2009-2011 Mariner / 2009 -2012 Escape - A/C Lack of Cooling Due to Desiccant Material) - Some 2009-2012 Escape/Mariner vehicles may exhibit an A/C lack of cooling. This may be due to desiccant cup molding releasing fine particles/debris into A/C system which eventually contributes to a restriction in the system. Symptoms may include excessive high side pressures, low side pressure can be extremely high or low, A/C compressor may not engage or engages for a short period of time. Pressures slow to equalize after compressor shuts off. If rotund flushing machine is not available replace all components of A/C, including lines. A month earlier, I had been there for the problem, with the car still under warranty, it was a known problem at Ford at the time, but the bulletin hadn't been issued yet. They didn't call me back in, less than a month after the vehicle had been in for exactly that problem. The vehicle went back in again that October, and no reference was made to it (just out of warranty at that point, but should have been covered). Each time, they made 'repairs', and charged me for them, but didn't bother to do what Ford had told them to do. Now, they don't want to know about it and neither does Ford. If you still think that I am wrong, fair enough...but do me a favor if you wouldn't mind. Look up the Facebook page that contains the names of a couple of THOUSAND angry Ford Escape owners with precisely the same problem and treatment, and gently explain to all of them why they too are wrong. Best of luck!


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

May 24, 2013, 2:07 PM

Post #10 of 10 (20357 views)
  post locked   Re: Ford Escape A/C Toxicity Problem  

I already Googled it. All I found was the same person posting in every possible place they could.

This thread has run it's course and you already know what is wrong with your car so I am now closing it.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



(This post was edited by Hammer Time on May 24, 2013, 2:07 PM)






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