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1993fordprobe
Novice
Jun 19, 2009, 9:04 AM
Post #1 of 13
(2828 views)
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My car's system is R12, and I just bought an R12 kit for it. Anyway I used the can of sealer stuff, and fixed the leak. Now my issue is getting the can of freon in the low port side like the sealer stuff. The sealer stuff went in fast and easy, but the freon I can't get to go in the low side port. I contacted the company I got the kit from, and they told me I have to find the A/C compressor, and locate the wires for it. Take the positive wire from it, and touch it to the negative to jump start the compressor.
I have no clue where the compressor wires are, but I do know where the A/C compressor is located.
My question is how to get the freon out of the can into the car if there is another way, and if not I need help finding the wires. I would go to an A/C mechanic, but after spending a lot on this kit I just want to use the kit.
Also the pressure gauge in the kit says that there is nothing in the A/C system. Nothing at all. Completely empty so I have a can of oil charge too which I will add after the freon since the hose is already connected to my freon can.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 19, 2009, 1:19 PM
Post #2 of 13
(2808 views)
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You may have destroyed the whole A/C system with sealer! They (some) will make gum when in touch with moisture and you were so low you had to have moisture in there and it even wrecked or sealed the port.
It's not really your fault as the warnings for sealers aren't on the containers but the repair now may exceed the value of the car!
T
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1993fordprobe
Novice
Jun 20, 2009, 11:37 AM
Post #3 of 13
(2797 views)
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I hope not cause I contacted the company I got the kit from and asked them if there was any specific step to take first, and they said there wasn't. I told them my system was completely empty too.
Thanks for the info. I didn't know if it would seal where you put it in or not, and I don't know if it did.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 20, 2009, 12:17 PM
Post #4 of 13
(2794 views)
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I'm not into regulating stuff or lawsuits but some of these jokers need their A$$ kicked! The warnings of it costing you merge times the amount of a proper fix isn't ever included! I've spend hours on the phone with Interdynamics a huge marketer and know more about
A/C then anyone I spoke to! They don't care - they are selling product that really can work but probably only once or the nightmares begin.
I only ask that labeling include lots of instructions and buyer be ware warnings.
The thing is what to do about it now. Damn stuff ruined a $10,000 buck Snap on reclaim.recycle machine of friends of mine who since don't do A/C as it cost them so much!
Company plain lied to you! You start with either a well held vacuum or a working system with a known leak if using a sealer definitely NOT from an empty system which is about any that would show a static pressure of less the 50 psi at 70F or so. Pressure is a known with refrigerants right to the fraction! 68F is the cross line with 134a for example. It deviates from that but if you tell me a temp I can tell you a pressure right on the money!
I'm ranting and need to stop it. Folks trying to DIY stuff need to know when and what the consequences are and so far it's not mandated. Arggh!
T
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1993fordprobe
Novice
Jun 21, 2009, 2:18 AM
Post #5 of 13
(2785 views)
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I read that R12 hurts the environment, and that if you have an R12 leak you need to fix the leak before adding anymore to the system which is why I added the sealer first. Are you sure that if I get the a/c compressor turned on it won't suck the freon through? Most of the sealer stuff if not all of it didn't go in the system. I connected it to the low port, and it leaked out at the low port. I am not 100% sure that any of it went in the system.
Also is it illegal if I go to an A/C mechanic, and give them the R12 kit to use for my car? They only use R134a around here, but I was just wondering if it is illegal or not? The company I bought it from said it wasn't illegal, and I read online that its not, but it is banned from getting imported to the US.
Also thanks for all the help so far.
(This post was edited by 1993fordprobe on Jun 21, 2009, 2:20 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 21, 2009, 3:19 AM
Post #6 of 13
(2782 views)
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Opinion: R-12 - AKA "Freon" by Dupont is the only best MVAC refrigerant - it's harmless! The problems were legal issues and patent rights. It was the only propellant for medical use for Asama and other breathing disorders. Taken off production for stupid reason by the Montreal Accord in 1993.
YOU CAN BREATH THE STUFF! The earth shows a slow cool down not a warm up over last ten years so IMO and it's just that it's a harmless product that worked taken away at the cost of all of us to find inferior replacements! It's all bull motivated by $ + greed IMO.
No matter - acidic short life replacement are available OTC in the US that doesn't work as well as simple Propane but we realistically can't have a total flammable as a refrigerant.
My view!
T
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1993fordprobe
Novice
Jun 21, 2009, 3:32 AM
Post #7 of 13
(2776 views)
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So you think its bogus? People can let R12 in the environment, and it won't change much is what you are saying?
I totally believe that cause our government, prices, and economy are so messed up right now. That is why I am going the cheapo route.
So if I take the R12 freon to an A/C mechanic, and tell him to put it in my car system I can't get into trouble or anything can I?
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jun 21, 2009, 6:32 AM
Post #8 of 13
(2774 views)
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The only thing that has my curious here is....... How did you get that R12? For years you've needed to have a recyclers license to buy it, unless something has changed I'm not aware off. Haven't used my license in years..... Hopefully it's not some of that propane based junk.....
Now I might of missed something cuz I've just been skimming but it sounds like the end is bad on that cheap kit & it isn't depressing the schrader valve....that's why it's reading empty & won't fill...... If this has already been covered then disregard.....
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1993fordprobe
Novice
Jun 21, 2009, 7:02 AM
Post #9 of 13
(2770 views)
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What do you mean? I know for fact what I got isn't the propane base. Its legal, and not flammable.
Anyway, what do you mean about the shrader valve? Is that the low port thing that gets pushed in when you try to recharge? Cause I know that little nibby thing does go in when I use the psi valve I bought for the unit.
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jun 21, 2009, 7:42 AM
Post #10 of 13
(2768 views)
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Just to ease you mind cuz you seem to have the wrong spin on this.... The laws that are concerning you are EPA violations not crimminal (although if bad if enough can become such)& since I'm assuming you aren't a shop owner or licensed professional are pretty much safe..... Basically I'm not gonna see you on COPS getting hooked up.
It's total curiousity on my part. Reason being when they went to having to be licensed to get R12, any of the sources in my area were very strict on it....No license no R12, now anyone could buy R134a or any non dichordiflorementhane (sp) base R12 just not R12. Maybe things are different in your neck of the woods or things have changed. I honestly haven't kept up with that end of it.....I see so few R12 systems any more & the ones I do get converted to 134.....
As for you problem. A good can will normally have a static charge of around 90 lbs psi. If you system is in fact empty, you should be able to get at least 1/2 that can in with out starting the system. So the problem is with the can, the charging system, the port, the line, (no offense) operator error, but something..... You suggested taking it in.... If you've already double checked everything you can think of on your end then it might not be a bad idea.... When working with gases & pressure there is always that chance of injury. So just becareful while checking your system out
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 21, 2009, 10:08 AM
Post #11 of 13
(2760 views)
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Obey rules and local laws - period! The world has altered climates for a zillion years without mankind's help.
Vote and change what you believe in.
R-12 took years to perfect by Dupont. It's a fat molecule and far less propensity to leak and doesn't need more than mineral (baby oil) to move with it. Leave it to some a$$ hole to screw up what was already perfect or close to it.
It's greed and money motivated to change this crap all the time. That too IMO.
It is an agreed on law to restrict it in some nations - not all! It's still made new! Not for the countries that agreed to the Montreal Accord.
No matter - 134a can work as well until some jerk decides it's no good either. The whole thing is created bull crap IMO again.
The whole reason for A/C at all is that buildings and cars are not made to do without. I've owned many with vent windows front and rear, floor vents that just don't exist anymore??
OK: I don't live in AZ which would still be a ghost town if not for A/C. It gets below zero F here in Winter routinely but heat is easier to make than cool.
It's somewhat off the topic but the regulations make it near impossible to always comply and quaded the price of A/C work! The world ain't perfect in any respect and will only be worse if we stop trying. Any and all opinions welcome!
Tom Greenleaf
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 21, 2009, 12:47 PM
Post #12 of 13
(2754 views)
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FACT - R12 depletes the ozone layer and it is against Federal law to knowingly vent to the atmosphere. (usually only enforced to licensed dealers)
FACT - R12 is not illegal and readily available in the US. Sale is restricted to licensed dealers from licensed dealers but readily available on E-Bay and other sources with this disclaimer (Buyer must Fax, E-mail or Mail a copy of their EPA approved 608/609 refrigerant Certificate ( Card) or a signed statement that this refrigerant is being purchased for resale to a certified technician before shipment.)
FACT - R134A has already been superceded by R1234yf which will be OE fill on new vehicles soon although there are no plans to retrofit R134A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 21, 2009, 1:34 PM
Post #13 of 13
(2749 views)
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Fact: Simple propane works as well as R-12 and better than 134a. Govt should not get involved with things they don't kinow anything about - IMO,
Propane = 
Not a great idea!
T
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