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Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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steveonmars
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Mar 1, 2010, 9:22 AM
Post #1 of 28
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Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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I have a 1984 Cadillac DeVille with a 4.1L 250 engine and need to replace the water pump. the parts stores want to know if I have a bypass tube on mine or not. What is it and where would it be if I had one?
Thanks,
Steve
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 1, 2010, 9:40 AM
Post #2 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Hi,
Just hunted parts as a clue. Two different sources. Seems the 4.1 didn't use a hose for bypass system. Could be that it's metal, built into water pump, or isn't a specific part # but rather generic cooling system hose.
Roughly 1% of the engines for these were a 5.7 diesel - I think based on an Olds block which was just a couple inch piece of hose from water pump to thermostat if I recall correctly. You would just use heater hose (generic) and cut a piece of so and they are a pill as the two spouts are so close together you need to either heat the piece up so it's soft or remove the thermostat housing if I recall.
Not an issue as you said it wasn't that engine. It may be a metal tube that's popular to go bad. When back at parts store see what they are referring to and take a pic of your water pump with you,
T
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steveonmars
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Mar 1, 2010, 9:48 AM
Post #3 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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I thought it might be something similar to what I've seen before where there was a 3 or 4 inch tube near the thermostat housing that where the heater hoses connected. This one doesn't have that but since this is a special order part I wanted to try to find out for sure. I'll probably just pull the pump and take it with me when I order the new one.
Thanks,
Steve
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 1, 2010, 11:21 AM
Post #4 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Autozone list two pumps?
Without built in bypass tube looks like this.........
With bypass tube looks like this.......
I'm not seeing the total difference? Can't always go by the pics but that site is pretty good. Apparently neither list a hose??
Here's the site..........
http://www.autozone.com/...re&parentId=43-0
Check others too, NAPA on line, O'Reileys, Advance Auto - anyplace that shows good pics could save you a hassle - having the old on the counter helps the most but call ahead to see if they have it. Real parts stores if you call by 10am if it's warehoused locally you'll have it by 2pm or at least places I deal with. Good luck,
T
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steveonmars
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Mar 1, 2010, 6:15 PM
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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I've heard a couple different answers on other forums. One said it's a small tube at the bottom of the pump that has a hose going to the coolant overflow reservoir. The other said it's a small tube at the top of the pump that goes into the intake manifold. Either way it's supposed to bypass the thermostat when it's closed. My pump has neither one so I ordered the pump without the bypass tube.
Now I'm having trouble getting the old one off. There's a pulley on the front of the block under the power steering pump on the driver's side with a bolt through the center that needs a 3/8" hex wrench to take the pulley off. I can't get the bolt loose. The pulley turns free and there's no way to stop it from spinning to loosen the bolt. There's a bolt holding the water pump on that backs out right into the back side of this pulley and I can't get that bolt out so the water pump is still attached by that one bolt. The bolt that goes into the water pump is loose but it backs out into that pulley so it won't come out all the way to get the pump off.
Steve
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 1, 2010, 8:29 PM
Post #6 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Of course I'm not looking at the exact situation but have been thru zillions over the ions. A multi bolted pulley should be loosened with belt still on or use a stud and move along. If just one in center it may be pressed on so you would look to remove the whole thing if possible. Others have holes for access thru the pulley to something behind it.
Watch out with ratcheting box wrenches if used! If not the switch and reverse type (like GearWrench makes) you can back off a bolt and be unable to get wrench out - a stalemate of sorts!
Air tools and PB (power blaster penetrating oil) can be your best friend. Takes basic understanding how NOT to break off bolts! An art in itself sometimes as extracting flush broken ones can be a nightmare. Ones that are real sticky but have moved some ok go back and tighten carefully back and forth with more PB on threads. Sucks when they break when almost out!
Look hard again at the pulley in the way. Whole unit must cooperate somehow. It may have bracketing back/over to under a motor mount or something to cause bad language!
Use all caution not to bend up a pulley trying to hold it for a bolt. If bent up it will need to be replaced.
Can take a bunch of tools for what seems simple.
Make damn sure you get the correct water pump matched on the counter as you sure don't want to be back there again. Hang in there,
T
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steveonmars
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Mar 1, 2010, 8:38 PM
Post #7 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Tom,
Thanks for the advice. I already have have the car apart and then found out I had one more bolt behind this pulley. The center bolt wouldn't break at all and all the belts and everything are already off. It started to get dark so I loaded it up with PB and called it a night. I'll try again tomorrow. There's no holes or anything in this pulley to hold it from spinning so I might have to get a little imaginative. Maybe I'll get lucky in the morning.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 1, 2010, 9:08 PM
Post #8 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Get some rest and think about the approach in the morning. I'll be away most of am but whoever here or wherever watching may have ideas.
What does this pulley that's a pain go to? It would help me find out how it might come out,
T
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steveonmars
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Mar 1, 2010, 9:14 PM
Post #9 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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It doesn't really go to anything. It's just for the belts to go around. It sits under what I believe is the power steering pump. There's a skinny belt that connects the two of these and then a wider belt that goes to the AC compressor. I took some pictures but I haven't figured out how to post them here yet. If I can I'll post some pics.
Steve
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steveonmars
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Mar 1, 2010, 9:52 PM
Post #10 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Tom,
Hopefully I just uploaded some pictures as attachments. I couldn't figure out how else to do it.
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steveonmars
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Mar 1, 2010, 9:59 PM
Post #11 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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   It looks like that worked. Hope that helps a little.
Steve
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steveonmars
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Mar 1, 2010, 10:01 PM
Post #12 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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I guess that didn't work after all.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 2, 2010, 4:43 PM
Post #13 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Pic posting from your own stuff can be a pill. It won't take stuff from my own puter here but will from near anywhere else. A setting or some geeky thing that prohibits my own?? Try them as an attachment and then I can post them,
T
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steveonmars
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Mar 2, 2010, 6:31 PM
Post #14 of 28
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Re: 84 Cadillac DeVille 4.1 water pump bypass tube
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I tried attachments in post #10 and just tried again here. Hopefully these will work.
(edit - post pics direct - don't ask how or why this works?? Nice pics for archives - Tom)
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Mar 3, 2010, 1:12 AM)
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Attachments:
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100_2145-1.JPG
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100_2146-1.JPG
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100_2150-1.JPG
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steveonmars
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Mar 2, 2010, 6:34 PM
Post #15 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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It rained all say today so I didn't do anything. The bolt that won't come loose is behind the fan blade but you can see the pulley I'm talking about.
Steve
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 2, 2010, 8:10 PM
Post #16 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Not sure what you are trying to do here but what you have marked in those pictures is the power steering pulley which is pressed on to the pump. There is no bolt in the end. That is just a hex hole in the end of the shaft. The one above it is the air pump. You need a special puller to pull that pulley off the pump.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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steveonmars
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Mar 2, 2010, 8:43 PM
Post #17 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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The pulley I have marked pulley, is that what you're saying is pressed on the power steering pump? It doesn't look like there's anything at all behind it. What's the thing I have marked "power steering?" ?
Steve
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Sidom
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Mar 2, 2010, 11:07 PM
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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That's a vacuum pump that is labeled p/s pump.
On this model the p/s pump pulley needs to be removed to r&r the water pump. The pulley is pressed onto the pump and special puller is required to remove it... Some parts houses will rent the puller.......
(This post was edited by Sidom on Mar 2, 2010, 11:08 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 3, 2010, 1:20 AM
Post #19 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Posted the pics direct - came out huge but nice archives. PS pump pulley is pressed on as said. Rent-able? Yes at many parts outlets or perhaps not that expensive - I forgot what mine cost
Use of temps can help with pressed stuff - races, pulleys etc., put part you need smaller in your freezer if allowed (CAUTION! CAN CAUSE DOMESTIC PROBLEMS!) and they'll go back on/in better,
T
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steveonmars
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Mar 3, 2010, 5:09 PM
Post #20 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Thanks for the tips so far. Now I remember why I quit working on my own cars. I had a puller and tried pulling off the pulley from the power steering pump and it just twisted the arms on the puller. I had another puller from when I was a machinist so I tried that one. I had to grind just a little bit off the legs and it fit perfect over the end of the pulley. This is a solid piece with nothing to twist and nice and short so the pressure was nice and uniform. The legs fit perfect in the groove on the end of the pulley and all it did was start to bend up and cut through the end of the pulley. I tried tapping the pulley while the pressure was pulling. It was soaked with power blaster 2 days ago and again this morning so that had plenty of time to sit.
This pulley still doesn't want to come off. Is it safe to use heat on this? Will I damage the pump if I use heat? I really need some help here guys.
I've been working on my own cars for 30 years and I'm restoring a '52 MG so I'm not a total amatuer. I also built a couple muscle cars back in the 70's & 80's. I did stop doing my own work when I could finally afford newer cars about 10 years ago but now I'm disabled and divorced and had to buy an older car agian. I do have the background and all the basics even if I need to be reminded of some of this stuff once in a while. I've always taught myself so don't always know the proper names or terms but the basics are there. I do appreciate any help you can give me.
Thanks a lot,
Steve
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 3, 2010, 8:08 PM
Post #21 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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I hope you didn't try to use a jaw type puller to get that off. all that will do is bend and destroy the pulley. There is a special puller that grabs the lip on the hub area.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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steveonmars
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Mar 3, 2010, 8:21 PM
Post #22 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Thanks, I went to the parts store to rent one and they didn't have one to rent but tried to sell me a jaw type that said power steering puller for $30 so I tried my jaw type because it was the similar. It didn't work obviously. I can't afford to spend $30 on something I'll never use again but I may not have a choice.
Thanks for the pics, I know what to look for now.
Steve
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Tom Greenleaf
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Mar 4, 2010, 1:52 AM
Post #23 of 28
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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Steve,
Hammer said it - you can't fake what kind of puller and get the right one. It's been that style for those for ions, looks just like the one I have predating the invention of the wheel!
Forget $30 if that's all it is. (seems too low to me) That will look cheap vs a new pump and pulley if bent/damaged! If you can't rent it, sell the tool, buy a decent one and it will sell but make sure you are done and all is working.
You may need that tool if pulley is trashed now just to replace it so think about owning it if you want to fix your own stuff,
T
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Hammer Time
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Mar 4, 2010, 3:24 AM
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Re: Cadillac DeVille water pump bypass tube
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If you live near an AutoZone or Advanced Auto parts, most of them have loaner or rental programs.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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nickwarner
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Mar 4, 2010, 10:57 PM
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most likely if you used a 3 jaw on it the pulley is trashed. I know some excellent parts guys that know what they are talking about, and I know some whose hands I have to hold just to get an order in. Problem is when you aren't familiar with whats needing to happen and don't deal with a certain store enough to know who is good and who isn't. I hate to sound mean, but when I'm busy and call my local NAPA or O'Reillys I hang up if a certain employee that I know isn't competent answers. I call back later. They may be barely able to find an oil filter or something simple, but if they were that good at working on cars they honestly wouldn't be parts guys. They'd be mechanics. Some of them used to be mechanics and got into the parts store due to health problems. Those are the guys you want. Especially the old timers. They know all the tricks. But when a guy tells you that a 3 jaw is just as good as a power steering puller he should be taken out in the moonlight and beaten with hammers. If a 3 jaw was good enough, why would they make a special puller for power steering pulleys? Also remember that it takes a special tool to put it on without wrecking it as well. Like Hammer said, many parts store loan tools and you need to talk with them about those tools before you blow too much coin on this.
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