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technoweener
User
Jun 25, 2011, 1:06 PM
Post #1 of 35
(22918 views)
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99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Greetings forum,
I have a 99 Burb 5.7 4x4, 180k mi. (30k on new heads, injectors, and manifold). Recently the AC stopped blowing cold and it appeared to be low on refrigerant. After a recharge up to 35 psi, still not cold and the compressor clutch does not look like it is engaging. Lost my job and trying to get this fixed as inexpensively as possible.
Thanks,
TD
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 25, 2011, 1:15 PM
Post #2 of 35
(22910 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Start from scratch here. Does this have dual A/C? What the heck does charged it up to 35psi mean without all the other info involved including high side pressure, temp at grille, RPM when taken? If you are using a can with the gauge on it you are wasting even more money and will be real sorry. This is a monster buck system if dual especially and doing it wrong will set you back even more,
T
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technoweener
User
Jun 25, 2011, 1:49 PM
Post #3 of 35
(22907 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Dual A/C - yes.
Added freon up to 35 psi according to the gauge that came with the can.
RPM - about 1200
Trying not to be real sorry which is why I am here.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 25, 2011, 6:45 PM
Post #4 of 35
(22892 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Bear with this as this vehicle like others with dual evaporators is expensive to make mistakes.
Those cans should only contain pure 134a refrigerant and I havent't seen one yet. Sealers and who knows what else are NOT helping you and worse the silly color gauges are 50/50 wrong so they and other quick fix thing get the name "Death Kits." Google it - no kidding.
You have a mega thousand dollar system and are playing with fire - no joke. Check out the top post (locked) in this section which is pages long just to charge a system should be informative and worth printing if need be.
If it is not cooling and pressures are low the #1 reason in any A/C system is low charge. Why? Leak(s) of course. If this particular Suburban is mostly original it's OE compressor is well known for "body" leaks. Check it. Bet there's oil around and under it.
The only way to know the correct charge is in there is to start from empty, a full vacuum of 29.92Hg at sea level and fill to spec listed under hood. Without even looking this one holds about 64oz 134a and 11oz of PAG150 oil! There's a sticker or should be underhood I think on the accumulator that will tell you or if there have been changes should be marked by the tech.
Before you touch it again go rent (free) for full deposit at many large parts outlets some real gauges and post observations now at what temp going in thru grille and center vent output temp w A/C on full blast front and rear on lowest fan setting or off for now is fine. The rear uses an expansion valve and will hog the bounty as it goes low over the front which is CCOT (clutch cycling orifice tube) set up. O tube can be accessed by taking out RF directional lens as it's in the condenser. Don't go there as you only can with it empty and don't need to just yet or never - can't tell.
This is likely the Vortec 5.7 (R code) with Delphi compressor right up top and both high and low ports right at compressor. Those valves leak famously too and are counting on good caps (sounds stupid but I've been corrected by a GM engineer) and could be Shraders or ball valves or perhaps one of each. If you don't have good OE caps go get them from GM.
I retired before this vehicle was made but there's one in the family still so I know what you are dealing with. I own the same system in a single system all OE untouched from new, 97 C/K pick up truck w no miles and crossing fingers myself but not the world for my location but want it to work of course.
Note: When a system runs low you need to know why and how fast. If untouched it wouldn't be all that surprising for the age to need a boost and short of starting from empty you seriously need to know all the conditions and performance at the time observations are taken. Know the dirty - if it is run low on charge the compressor will fail as the oil is carried by the refrigerant and will not lube it and will keep on trying (stupid engineering IMO) when it should just quit in time. Compressor should be quiet too and it not just unplug it now and prep for a new, not a rebuilt one and suggest Sanden as the replacement if we get there.
Saving money: Join the club, it's bigger by the minute. I just want to save you from messing up especially since this is so expensive and many are.
For right now get two wired (cheap) household type thermometers - heck - I use those instead of A/C dial ones. Wally world or perhaps a home center like Home Depot, Lowes or other. You can get real vent output temps and put it on the dash and the other for incoming air temp. When this is over and hope it's easy you still have them for home use. I must own a dozen of them and monitor vent temps in everything (too many) vehicle I own myself AND real outside incoming air temp which is not the forecast temp but what the vehicle really is dealing with. It matters a lot as the pressure to temp relationship will vary some or a lot depending on that. A hot road or driveway surface is what the vehicle is dealing with.
If you see ice on return line with the silver muffler near compressor on this it's a good sign it's low but a working system. Overcharging is a huge NO-NO in any system, more is NOT better. You want it right.
How high is the demand for A/C for you? Give me a location and I don't need to and can't find out who you are so don't be intimidated by that "moderator" status of me or the guys here. Just volunteer police work to keep a clean site as it gets spammed like others do too.
I'll follow you thru but get some stuff and real readings now or if already intimidated send it out for a recovery, vacuum and charge to spec professionally so we know if the system is up to par or not at least even if it doesn't last then can chase down the most efficient fix. Put a Q-tip's worth of PB on the connections at the accumulator now as if you are ever there they don't like to come apart.
Hang in there but don't mess up. Enough for this post for now,
Tom
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technoweener
User
Jun 26, 2011, 11:39 AM
Post #5 of 35
(22875 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Thanks for the reply. I've only used 134a refrigerant I bought from wally world and the gauge that came with it. In doing more research I found that the compressor should not engage if the coolant pressure is below 40 psi so (ignorance is bliss) last night I added more to get to 40. As soon as I did this the clutch engaged but only for about 2 seconds. Then it would engage for 2 seconds, stop for 7-10 seconds, then engage for 2 seconds. No change in cabin air temp while this was happening.
This morning after reading your post, I check the pressure again (with the gauge that came with the coolant) and the pressure has returned to 35 psi. Also, no visible signs of fresh oil on the compressor body but there is a significant buildup of dirt and oil due to age maybe? Here are pictures from both sides of the compressor body taken this morning.
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EMQfGh0-bPCnONY2u54jjZmXmBO_m_oSh_pBCQkmjiA?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/2QHQkiZvfEQWCwiuMIhWq5mXmBO_m_oSh_pBCQkmjiA?feat=directlink
The unit is the Delphi OEM with original caps. If you think replacing the caps is critical, happy to do it. Also, I am in Kansas City where we can hover in the upper 90's for weeks. Will get my hands on some real gauges and let you know what they say as well.
Thanks,
TD
(This post was edited by technoweener on Jun 26, 2011, 11:41 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 26, 2011, 11:54 AM
Post #6 of 35
(22872 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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You can plain bubble test the ports for now. Couldn't get to the picks so relying on your eyes that oil is just commensurate with age and other dirt. Real bad ones are usually obvious.
Throw that can away and get gauges please!
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 26, 2011, 12:02 PM
Post #7 of 35
(22872 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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I don't know if it's just the lighting where you took the picture but there seems to be an obvious division between clean and oil stained right at the front barrel seal which would be a leak point.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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technoweener
User
Jun 26, 2011, 12:31 PM
Post #8 of 35
(22863 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Sorry, should have mentioned I cleaned off that part a bit. Before, it looked like the passenger side bottom picture.
So bottom line, if there are leaks coming from the compressor body would it be easier to replace the whole thing?
(This post was edited by technoweener on Jun 26, 2011, 12:34 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 26, 2011, 12:57 PM
Post #10 of 35
(22853 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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YES! Whole thing and pay for NEW not reman one. Again - I like Sandens fit right in and have new O rings which should come with it but it not be ready with everything you need. You do need a snap ring pliers for the thermal switch in the rear of it which should come with a plug.
Stay with us. Snap rings are DIRECTIONAL! One side is sharper than the other so pay attention or it could shoot the thing out You use your old switch unless for some reason this doesn't do that then leave the plug in. As they go these are not monster bucks and find out if it's oiled or not.........
Hit back before you start for last minute suggestions,
T
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technoweener
User
Jun 26, 2011, 12:58 PM
Post #11 of 35
(22852 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Check for leaks with soapy water on the hoses, fittings, ports (with caps on), and compressor housing. Did not see anything  Could not see the under-side of the compressor though.
(This post was edited by technoweener on Jun 26, 2011, 1:01 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 26, 2011, 1:04 PM
Post #12 of 35
(22847 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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They'll be fine then. In my massive missive back several posts I did mention that the caps are really the final seal, not just to keep ports clean but of course if when you took one off it went nuts that isn't right for those ports,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 26, 2011, 1:18 PM
Post #13 of 35
(22842 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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That is a Harrison HT6
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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technoweener
User
Jun 26, 2011, 2:48 PM
Post #14 of 35
(22834 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Thanks Hammer, is that model infamous for anything particular?
One MORE thing I forgot to mention, I replaced the AC control relay before starting any of the other steps. No difference (obviously).
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 26, 2011, 2:51 PM
Post #15 of 35
(22827 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Yes, barrel leaks
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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technoweener
User
Jun 26, 2011, 8:11 PM
Post #16 of 35
(22817 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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So, in the forum's opinion should I save myself some time and hassle and just go get a new compressor? What is the likelihood this could result in a "cheap fix"?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 26, 2011, 11:59 PM
Post #17 of 35
(22812 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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If a compressor and seems like it (just leaking there) this is a cheap fix as A/C goes. Can more happen - sure. This stuff and life doesn't really come with a warranty. Again - go new and might be surprised it's not that much more. You do want a "drop in" that requires no funky alterations of anything.
The remanufactured ones seem to be mostly spray paint IMO and a good clean up of a junky compressor. Keep your old one if new as you might need the clutch or coil assembly at some point. If this is to happen (it's your vehicle and your call) it's my and our motivation to make this work out as smoothly as possible.
Many (none needed if just this) specialty tools are free rentals with deposits to cover safe return at places but get a whole compressor with the clutch already to go except for some minor prep and proper O rings. Common on these to leak and still work if charged - debris if let go that far just complicates the whole show.
While here and folks will search out this no doubt, PAG oils are "hygroscopic" meaning they absorb moisture and dammit becomes acidic so plug off or just wrap up open parts to keep that at a minimum.
If timid about this just say so but this is not as difficult as most are to do. Employ common sense,
Tom
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 27, 2011, 12:52 AM
Post #18 of 35
(22805 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Just FYI - GM engineers and professors of A/C engineering have informed me that Harrison HT6 was never used as OE compressor for this Hammer - check you resources - this is my thing! It was Dayton Electric Company AKA "DELCO" -------- Part of the name Delphi,
Tom
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jun 27, 2011, 12:55 AM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 27, 2011, 3:10 AM
Post #19 of 35
(22797 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Maybe you want to check your own resources Tom. The HT6 was made by Delphi/Harrison and was used on the suburban.
http://www.gcsnetwork.com/...d2ed7cd4e0235f614e74
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 27, 2011, 5:17 AM
Post #20 of 35
(22790 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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If pic is correct that's the compressor exactly. If "Harrison" got in bed with Delphi I can't keep track of that crap. I make a feeble attempt with NYSE and NASDAQ and since GM now stands for "Government Motors" there's no telling. Got my info from an engineer who worked where they made them is as strong as I can get. Smile bro - we are here to fix this Burp and really think we can,
Tom
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technoweener
User
Jun 27, 2011, 8:01 AM
Post #21 of 35
(22783 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Went out and cleaned off the label. It is a Delphi/Harrison model # 1136582. I will be pricing out "new" today.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 27, 2011, 8:25 AM
Post #22 of 35
(22780 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Call the # I gave you via PM,
T
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technoweener
User
Jun 27, 2011, 9:54 AM
Post #23 of 35
(22769 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Here is what I have found so far:
AC Source - Sanden clone - $206 (includes shipping to my KC address)
GMC Dealer - AC Delco - $333
Advanced Auto - Delphi CS0120 - $214
OReilly - Delphi CS0120 - $299
Since the last 2 listed are right down the street I'll probably go with Advanced Auto.
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technoweener
User
Jun 27, 2011, 12:05 PM
Post #24 of 35
(22766 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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Bought the Delphi compressor and drier. Getting ready to pull the old, any tips or advice?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 27, 2011, 1:11 PM
Post #25 of 35
(22763 views)
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Re: 99 Suburban No Cold Air
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I told you they weren't that expensive as A/C goes Follow directions with one you have. New is new to me no matter really what brand,
T
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