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starting problems


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chucky1997
Novice

Jun 9, 2013, 3:48 PM

Post #1 of 17 (1315 views)
starting problems Sign In

i have a 1974 ford 302 engine, and it won't fire. The engine cranks over, but no spark to the spark plugs. The engine is getting gas, and all the spark plugs are new. I have replaced the ignition coil, ignition module, and the magnetic pickup in the distributor. please help.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 9, 2013, 4:00 PM

Post #2 of 17 (1309 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

'74 was first year for electronic ignition for most real Fords (a couple models were foriegn with just a Ford nameplate) whatever this is. Modules plugs had I think either a yellow or blue connector and wrong one wouldn't work but I think fit?

What brought on this problem?

T



chucky1997
Novice

Jun 9, 2013, 4:08 PM

Post #3 of 17 (1297 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

I just walked out to the garage one day. And it just kept cranking. But no fire. So I talked to a few mechanics I know and they problem shot for a while which ended up in those various parts I talked about being replaced. And yes it has an electronic ignition in it.


Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 9, 2013, 4:24 PM

Post #4 of 17 (1283 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

I guess you want to keep what this is a secret but not totally important. Does the rotor in cap even turn when cranking? These under my watch either failed something right when new or lasted forever. Pick up coil in dist in newer EI set ups anyway you had to remove a spacer held with a roll pin, then gear that didn't want to come off and frequently broke.

Just one, the roll pin sheared off and dist didn't turn. Another just recently the nylon cam gear of timing chain completely disappeared so no dist turning properly or close but that one did make erroneous sparks,

T



chucky1997
Novice

Jun 9, 2013, 4:48 PM

Post #5 of 17 (1267 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

It is a 1970 ford Torino. And if the rotor is not turning, what could be the problem. Not saying the rotor isn't turning but I'm just not sure if it is right now.


Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 9, 2013, 5:02 PM

Post #6 of 17 (1264 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

Gear at bottom of distributor turns the shaft via the camshaft. If cam can't turn the dist can't turn. If roll pin holding gear of dist shaft is freewheeling it either wouldn't turn at all or be so off no spark. You might be able to just take cap off and see if rotor turns without engine running in your hand.

You've swapped engines to a 1970 which all were wired for a point distributor. Whatever wiring was done to run EI to a module now is all in question never mind trauma of swapping engines pulling on, bumping wires etc.

If rotor isn't turning for any reason engine cranks funny if cause by cam gear being off but would still probably show power to distributor as directed by ignition switch,

T



chucky1997
Novice

Jun 9, 2013, 5:58 PM

Post #7 of 17 (1247 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

The wiring is fine because it ran like a charm two weeks ago. It just recently wouldn't start. And the engine doesn't crank funny. It sounds like it should and turns like it should. I will have to check out the rotor though and see if it is turning. Do you think it could possibly be a bad ignition switch?


Tom Greenleaf
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Jun 9, 2013, 6:25 PM

Post #8 of 17 (1229 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

Just because it ran two weeks ago means nothing. You are loaded with ~40+ year old wires, plugs and haven't bothered to tell me/any of us what the heck it is yet or check to see if the rotor even turns either by hand or watching it and keep posting. This is going nowhere fast. The sound of it cranking is tell tale of no compression with timing chain issues or totally broken. I doubt an untrained ear would know that sound.

No point in this until you begin to rule things out,

T



chucky1997
Novice

Jun 9, 2013, 6:47 PM

Post #9 of 17 (1221 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

You have no idea how trained the ears have been that have checked out this engine. One has 60+ years of experience completely rebuilding cars and engines from the ground up. And another has 40+ years of the same. I came on here for suggestions. Not to chat with someone who is condescending. And the car isn't with me right now in order for me to check. And as far as ruling things out, I've ruled out half the ignition system. And all the plugs and wires are brand new installed by professionals. You need to stop commenting. Unless you have half way useful suggestions.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 10, 2013, 3:28 AM

Post #10 of 17 (1195 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In


Quote
One has 60+ years of experience completely rebuilding cars and engines from the ground up. And another has 40+ years of the same.



So.... in other words ............. he's right.

You have back yard, shade tree DIYers that are not employed in this business looking at the car.

Careful how you run your mouth around here. You won't last long.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 10, 2013, 5:07 AM

Post #11 of 17 (1180 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

Total of 100+ years experience working on cars and they can't figure out a simple no spark on a Duraspark ignition?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 10, 2013, 5:09 AM)


chucky1997
Novice

Jun 10, 2013, 9:16 AM

Post #12 of 17 (1162 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

You had better recheck your information. I never said the people looking at it weren't employed in the automotive industry. They have been, and a couple still are. And your exactly right, so far you both have criticized my professionals, and have offered terrible advice. And as far as finding the problem with the spark goes, there are at least fifteen different things that could have gone bad. I challenge anyone to find the problem and solution in less than a week without replacing some of the things we've replaced.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 10, 2013, 9:20 AM

Post #13 of 17 (1157 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

I guaranty you that I could find the culprit in less than 2 hours using a lab scope and a wiring diagram.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


chucky1997
Novice

Jun 10, 2013, 9:44 AM

Post #14 of 17 (1150 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

Sure you could, slick.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jun 10, 2013, 10:06 AM

Post #15 of 17 (1144 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In


Quote
I guaranty you that I could find the culprit in less than 2 hours using a lab scope and a wiring diagram.


I'm sure of that. I'm sure I could too, probably wouldn't even take 2 hours. The system doesn't get any more basic. Any diagnostic tech that couldn't figure it out in 2 hours shouldn't be employed there.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



chucky1997
Novice

Jun 10, 2013, 10:54 AM

Post #16 of 17 (1133 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

I'd love to continue this pissing contest, but some of us actually have lives to attend to.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Jun 10, 2013, 11:50 AM

Post #17 of 17 (1128 views)
Re: starting problems Sign In

We'd love to assist you in finding your problem, but you have to be at the car.

You already have one thing you need to check: distributor rotor rotation.

The other things are mainly power, ground, signal, and coil control tests.

Have they done any electrical tests before slapping a bunch of stuff on it?

Does this have the Duraspark II system?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jun 10, 2013, 12:09 PM)






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