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kia sedona rear heater


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Anonymous Poster

Jan 28, 2008, 2:11 AM

Post #1 of 18 (13144 views)
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i just had the rear lines replaced do to them rotting out, now the rear heater does not work i have had it back two the shop they told me i had an air blockage, they told me it was fixed but nope. i have tried to fix it myself twice, both times by letting the van run with the rad cap off, after a while a do have heat ibn the back but when i replace the rad cap it starts to blow cold again, any thoghjts on this?
Thanks in advance


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Anonymous Poster

Jan 28, 2008, 3:14 AM

Post #2 of 18 (13135 views)
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sorry it's a 2002 v6 3.5 litre engine


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jan 28, 2008, 3:31 AM

Post #3 of 18 (13135 views)
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Probably does have air in it but that should be the shop's problem to purge out. I might hoist up the front pretty high and run it so air purges to the front and perhaps pinch off the front heater a bit to allow more flow thru the rear core??

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


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Anonymous Poster

Jan 28, 2008, 5:37 AM

Post #4 of 18 (13132 views)
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Thanks for the replay Tom, i am going to take it back to the dealer 1 more time, if they can t get it i will try your suggestion myself. I have no faith in this Kia dealer the van is not a bad veichle but the service is????????????????. Thanks again.


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Anonymous Poster

Jan 31, 2008, 1:45 AM

Post #5 of 18 (13119 views)
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I took this van back to the dealer today to try to get rid of the air, only to have them tell me after 20 mins that they think my head gasket is gone, thats why i have air in my system. the is no antifreeze in the oil and no smoke coming out of the tail pipe, temp on van runs right were it always has. Can they be right? i don't feel like spending 1200 dollars (on a i think thats the problem) Man i hate Dealers.Mad


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jan 31, 2008, 3:53 AM

Post #6 of 18 (13117 views)
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Don't blame "dealers" just because they are but rather the way any shop operates on any problem and the amount of time allowed to really get a job done or even diagnosed. 20 minutes is hardly enough time to be reasonably sure about a head gasket with minimal evidence that you pointed out.

A head gasket is sealing everything from everything else and COULD leak in any direction between anything it's sealing.

For this I would diag with a pressure test, fill and purge cooling system, run a while and if air shows up in cooling system repeatedly then the diagnosis is by preponderance (sp?) of evidence.

With your symptoms and the lack of classic head gasket failures I would check to see if the cooling system built up pressure from ZERO faster than just heat expansion of coolant by either a pressure tester or with lots of experience just feeling an upper radiator hose can tell this.

You said you had it behaving when running without pressure and that's a clue! The diagnosis shouldn't be taken so lightly. It's a lot of money and there's room for being wrong with the best of testing as sometimes it can be a flaw or problem with head or block itself and not just the gasket.

Where do you want to go with this?

T
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Long retired now


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Anonymous Poster

Feb 1, 2008, 4:47 AM

Post #7 of 18 (13112 views)
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Thanks for the reply Tom, i ahve it going in for a pressure test to be sure. do you have ant tricks to really make sure the air is out of the rear heater core, if i was sure there was no air back there i feel a little bit better about putting out another thousand dollars on this van Thanks in advance.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Feb 1, 2008, 6:54 AM

Post #8 of 18 (13111 views)
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Obviously this one is a pest. I might separate the rear heater and bleed out just the front and engine and at least get this thing stable ruling out any head gasket causing this. At your first post you indicated this all started with just replacing the rear hoses so I don't know why it's all of a sudden a head gasket in the picture at all.

I also don't really know why it worked for you with the cap off.

Ok: With this much fuss I'd try to bleed out the back with the two hoses off and just pour coolant thru till it came out the return hose - plug that off sealed for hook up back to the system. So if front can be ok and back now known it would be fast work to hook it all up without letting more air in or just minimal.

For a tough one I might jack up the vehicle as said before with the radiator cap as high up as reasonable to just let air rise to the top. It's only going to purge out air on its own when the thermostat is open. That can be done by warming up the whole engine to operating temp and shut if off and wait like 2-3 minutes. Heat should rise and unseen the thermostat is likely wide open with the hot coolant rising at it when waterpump is not circulating the whole mix. That's a great moment to start it up and the air about has to burp out to rad and to recovery tank.

That and when close to fully purged just driving on a windy road shifting the gravity on the vehicle back and forth can persuade some bubbles to come out of hiding.

It can take as long for a shop to get this right as it did to replace a hose(s) or something and they don't like spending the time on it. I simply up and left two shops I worked at because they didn't like me spending time at the end of a job to really test it out. Who the heck wins if a ticked off customer is back the next day?? They look bad, tech looks bad as you know. I had to just up and open up for myself and do things my way. There is equipment to speed this up that I've never owned and would hope a dealership would have it as lots of vehicles are fussy like this.

I suggest talking to the tech that will handle this for you not just the white coat at the desk. This shouldn't be that big of a deal!

T
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Long retired now


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Anonymous Poster

Feb 4, 2008, 5:56 AM

Post #9 of 18 (13101 views)
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I'll keep you posted Thanks Tom.


Tom Greenleaf
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Feb 4, 2008, 6:13 AM

Post #10 of 18 (13099 views)
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Getting air out of cooling system 2-3-2008 [In reply to] Sign In

This below was posted to help with understanding the problems encountered with air in the cooling system. It migh be of interest to take peek. We are working on writing up something like this for re-use as it takes a lot of work to write these one at a time,
T



Ok: Let me give this a shot at explaining. I spent the day thinking of how I could write something about this that could easily explain this problem and the solutions so it could be referred to for many as this is a common problem. There are some tricks for exact makes and models but basically the same thing.

* Think of the cooling system as two areas - engine side and radiator side. About always a thermostat is at the highest point between them and shuts when cold and gradually opens when it approaches the set temp then fully open to circulate the coolant to radiator and return the cooled, coolant to the engine.

* The T-stat is capable of being somewhat air tight when cold/closed. When coolant is drained or lowered on purpose or from a leak it will lower the level in the engine side and the radiator side. When filled again at the radiator side the coolant fills what it can but can't push the air on top of remaining coolant in engine back thru the T-stat so it's locked in there till the thermostat opens and the air (naturally at the top) goes out to radiator, liquid coolant should return thru the lower radiator hose to the engine and you would notice the drop in coolant level at the radiator - a good time to fill again BUT.......... vehicles without a radiator cap on the radiator itself just don't manage to get that air out to where you would fill it at the pressure recovery tank so you have to be assertive with them.

!! I'm winging it here so bear with me. The idea is getting the air out of the locked engine side to where you can replace it with coolant of the side you are supposed to be able to add directly to, to replace air with coolant. By itelf it would purge air out to recovery and return just liquid... note the tank has a little hose at the bottom that allows coolant flow to and from the radiator. Just that smaller hose is slow to accomplish this without intervention when system has been drained.

It's hard with these to just let the engine warm up enough to have the T-stat open and stay there long enough to on the difficult ones you would let air out of the engine side before the thermostat with a bleeder if equipped or taking a hose off on that side as high up as possible and fill it there and re-attach. When you have most air out just normal driving around will get any remaining insignificant air out to that recovery tank a little at a time over the cycles of warm and cold - expansion/contraction of the coolant.

Warning: When dealing with a cooling system don't open up when under pressure. You can feel that there is pressure fairly easily at an upper radiator hose - use a rag and don't get burned. Water/coolant is a liquid at temps below 212F (rough ave) and a vapor above that with no pressure on it. Water/coolant will remain a liquid at about 3 extra degrees per lb of pressure. If that pressure is released it can and will flash to a vapor and can cause serious injury! Apply common sense folks.

Now a snag with assorted ways the heater operates. When filling and testing the heater should be on full temp request and low fan. Feel for the heat. That proves that liquid coolant is there as even hot air going thru a heater core won't exhange much heat. Some heaters have a constant flow of coolant and adjust the temp desired by controlling flow of the coolant itself or use a diverter door to blend heated and ambient air temp to deliver disired air temp to cabin. This will vary in assorted vehicles.
NOTE: Some vehicles use the heater/core - coolant flow as part of the by-pass system which allows the water pump to maintain even temps inside the engine's coolant. This is necessary so that the thermostat gets the real overall engine temp or it would fluctuate and cause problems of its own.

Note again: This is with the components of the cooling system all in good shape and able to work properly. Debris in cooling system, leaks, head gasket problems, or defects of assorted kinds can and will complicate the success of purging air out of a cooling system.


Ask away as needed. I'll try or others please jump in and edit this as needed. This is a common problem. Techs and DIYers alike have to deal with this frequently,

Hope that helped for now..........

Tom Greenleaf, 2-3-2008
_________________________________________
Long retired now


sierra
Anonymous Poster
gjchkriger@yahoo.com

Mar 5, 2008, 6:20 PM

Post #11 of 18 (12992 views)
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How old is your Kia van? We just had to have our lines replaced because they rotted out. Our van is a 2002. I am wondering if this is a common problem. Kia told us no but the dealership had the parts in stock to fix it. NOt something they should typically stock if it is not a common problem.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Mar 5, 2008, 6:33 PM

Post #12 of 18 (12990 views)
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Guest mentioned it was a 2002,

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


Guest
Anonymous Poster

Mar 6, 2008, 3:15 AM

Post #13 of 18 (12988 views)
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It's a very common problem also with the ac line under the van as well, i am in the mist of have a bleeder valve installed in the lines to get rid of this air in the system as well.


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Anonymous Poster

Oct 27, 2008, 11:23 AM

Post #14 of 18 (12286 views)
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I just had the problem with my 2004 Kia van. After filling the system, the rear heater core / pipe assemblies can be bled of air by temporarily clamping off either FRONT heater core connection while raising the engine speed to approximately 2500 RPM for about one minute.


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Anonymous Poster

Oct 27, 2008, 12:38 PM

Post #15 of 18 (12282 views)
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.
Just a thought here..
Is there anywhere in the cooling system with a bleeder to vent out air after the system has been opened?
I don't know Kia's at all but many GM vehicles have this available and as the car heats up the bleeder can be cracked open with a screwdriver and allow trapped air to vent out thus relieving the system of air leaving only coolant as intended. The bleeder is often near where the thermostat is.


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Anonymous Poster
devee0@yahoo.com

Mar 10, 2009, 2:23 PM

Post #16 of 18 (11486 views)
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I had the same problem the dealer wants to charge me 405.00 to replace and their is a tech doc out there for dealers on this issue


martin99
Anonymous Poster
mwade99@msn.com

Apr 12, 2009, 2:02 PM

Post #17 of 18 (11338 views)
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hi have read the above coments and just replaced my heater pipes so i thought i would raise the front and yes its cleared the air out of the system no problem, i will also concour that the pipes are a common fault and the hand break linkage which i replaced for £14 pounds due to no grease on it at service. this i find is a common fault at services yes having an eye for detail. i find a smaller garage now more reliable than the dealer


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Apr 12, 2009, 6:08 PM

Post #18 of 18 (11333 views)
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Martin - old thread and still valid issues. Some of this could be prevented by asking for items to be greases like cables and the corrosion-likely spots on fittings, lines of all kinds. Include hood latch the the mechanisms, trunk (boot) door lock and hinges all thru the vehicle.

Some of that is going to be itemized as a routine and once a year is enough for some things. There's a lot to be said for local shops and the personal touches for some common sense maintenance.

I really like aerosol grease, real oil squirt cans and WD-40 by brand (others may be just as good) for areas that might get on paint or cake up too much grease but it's less likely to make permanent damage, grease up clothing on latches etc.

The purging problems vary one vehicle to another. There is now a machine that can apply vacuum to an entire cooling system which I don't own and most won't but speeds up this process for shops as so many are a pill and once vacuum achieved you switch to add just coolant back which will find more hiding places that just gravity. Cooling systems are NOT meant to be under a full vacuum as rubber hoses would collapse in most so it would just be a slight vacuum and advantage. I think the day will come those will be more affordable and or available for rent,

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now




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