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brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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ZmanWA
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Dec 27, 2008, 10:16 AM
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brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Hello,
'95 Jeep Cherokee, 6.0 liter engine, 150K+ mileage
Trying to remove the front brake calipers so I can change pads and rotors. Have unscrewed the top and bottom bolts that should hold in place. Trying to slide out. Only moves slightly. Have tapped with rubber mallet. Any movement has something in the way to allow it to slide all the way out. What am I missing or what do I need to do here?
Thanks.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 27, 2008, 10:28 AM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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There will be two bolts holding the caliper to the mount, then two large bolts holding the mount to the spindle. It is easier if you remove them individually. You'll need to depress the piston a bit, usually, to pull it off.
Loren
SW Washington
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Anonymous Poster
Dec 27, 2008, 10:51 AM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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I'll give this a try and get back. Thanks.
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Dec 27, 2008, 4:27 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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OK, got them taken off - thanks. Just needed to be pried. ... Put on new pads and rotors. They went on OK but were very tight. They did go on. Drove the vehicle a couple miles and the right front started smoking. Seems like it was very tight. When clamping the caliper piston, it was very difficult to get the piston to suppress. Did it but it took way more effort than the other one. So two questions I guess...
1) will the pads simply wear in and be OK? Or not?
2) Given the situation with the caliper piston. Should it be replaced (is it a must)?
Thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 27, 2008, 6:18 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Seems like you are in the middle of this and Loren might be off line for a while so let me add my 2 cents:
You noted one more difficult to compress/push back than the other. Not good!
Ok: That's enough to worry right away but also need to know more. This is a judgement call on the overall corrosion condition of the caliper which isn't all that easy to guess but a warning is there that a frozen piston exists OR a flex hose has failed such that fluid return isn't happening.
If the wheel is dragging now (smoke with test drive on one side only isn't good of course) and just loosening the bleeder for a quick bleed frees that wheel right up then I'd replace both flex hoses and strongly consider the calipers too. In fact if you know they haven't been done it's about time anyway for that age vehicle.
If just like that the part is under $22 bucks and not worth ruining the job over or worse losing braking with them failed.
Be warned that if it's dragging now and you continue driving this it will ruin the pads and possibly warp the rotor that you just replaced!
You may notice that old pads were markedly more worn on one side - that's another warning that calipers and flex hoses are in the cards.
Hey - it does mean you will need to bleed out brakes which is best anyway. The metal line where it threads into flex hose if original or any rust/corrosion going on there will be a pest to remove and may break off requiring a replacement segment of the metal line or as far back as line is very good in a place to properly splice in a section.
Are you up for that?
If it breaks or twists up the line there you need to be ready with line, flaring tool, tubing cutter, to do a legal job of just a line section replacement. These tools aren't that expensive for basic work with lines and should be available at any parts store.
Whatever you do just know it can domino into more work like this. Do youself a favor and go put some penetrating oil on that flare nut to flex hose connection now to have a better chance of it behaving for you later - still might not. The OE Crysler flare nuts were long sleeved over the line and were a nightmare with any rust there to remove without twisting them up.
Be ready if you go there,
T
Ps: Loren - you can give me and Kitty a punch for jumping in or fix my confusion of this
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Anonymous Poster
Dec 27, 2008, 6:57 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Tom,
Here are some answers for you to ponder. Know that I am clearly an amateur.
* It seems replacing the right caliper is the thing to do. Do I need to put in two new ones or is doing just one OK?
* Old rotors appeared to be OK visually, but there was a shimmy when braking so I got new ones.
* I'm not comfortable performing any "operation" on the hoses. I usually get decent advice at the auto parts store if they simply show me the new part and I make a straight put the new one in replacing the old one.
*Obviously I need to do this right so the vehicle is safe, but I don't want to sink any more $$$ than needed - thus the do it myself approach.
Thanks for all your help!
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 27, 2008, 7:19 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Tom and Kitty are right on! I'd recommend replacing the calipers in pairs. Nowadays, they are relatively inexpensive, and usually come with pads. The phenolic pistons tend to 'bind' in the caliper and cause what you are experiencing. The manufacturers' went to the phenolic from stainless to save weight and they tend to dissapate heat better. But...
Loren
SW Washington
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Anonymous Poster
Dec 29, 2008, 4:30 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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OK, went out of town for a day and am back at it today. Got new calipers and put them on. Went very well. No leaks, fit great, pretty simple operation really. Now trying to bleed the brakes and do it right. Have tried to do it twice but they continue to feel spongy, so there must be air in the line. Perhaps you have some tips. Let me share what I've been doing and then you can correct/instruct.
Made sure master cylinder tank was full. Started with front passenger side then moved to driver's side. There is very little fluid coming out unless I have partner pump the brakes. Does this mean there happens to be A LOT of air in there?
I instruct partner to push. When they verify they are pushing I open the valve on the caliper. This is where I'm unclear. What exactly am I looking for so I know when to close the valve and tell partner to release? With so little fluid coming out it is hard to detect air.
Hopefully I'm missing something simple. Thanks for your help. You've been great!
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 29, 2008, 4:55 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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As Tom had mentioned, it is very easy to 'rupture' the seals of the master cylinder while bleeding. You want to be very careful while doing this. Have a helper press gently on the brake pedal. (Tell him to not let the pedal go all the way to the floor.) Open the RF bleeder just a bit, letting the fluid out slowly. Watch for air bubbles. Close it off before too much fluid comes out. It is a slow process, but taking your time will lessen the chances of damaging the master. Have your helper pump the pedal slowly, a couple of times, then repeat the process. (pumping it quickly can aeriate the fluid, causing MORE bubbles). Continue doing this until no more air bubbles are present; Then, move to the LF. If the master cylinder went dry while you were changing the calipers, it's possible that you've got air in the rear half, as well, in which case, you'll need to bleed the rears starting at the RR, then LR. Remember, if you got air in the rear, it will be all of the way up front, and will take some bleeding to get the air to the rear of the vehicle. On both the front and rear, if you can get the fluid to move on it's own (gravity bleeding), that's the best and safest way.
Loren
SW Washington
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Anonymous Poster
Dec 29, 2008, 5:27 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Loren,
I really want to make sure this is done right since this is such a major safety factor. I'm reading a lot of variables that can cause issues -- that concerns me. I don't want to cause further problems.
Please tell me more about gravity bleeding. How is that done? If it is best and safest I'd like to try it. Time in on my side with this.
Other than that will go through the process slowly and deliberately. Hopefully nothing has been damaged so far. If not, should be able to solve this.
Thanks again!
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 29, 2008, 5:34 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Gravity bleeding is just that. You open the RR bleeder and let it bleed on it's own. Takes a while, though.  Sometimes, if there's much air in the system, you may need to do the pedal thing to get the fluid moving; But, once it starts moving, it will bleed on it's own. Just need to keep the master cylinder full while doing so. Then, the RR, RF, LF. Once you are done, pump the pedal a few times until you get a 'good' pedal, then go back and hit them again, just to be sure you've got all of the air out.
Loren
SW Washington
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Anonymous Poster
Dec 29, 2008, 5:40 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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I think I'll try this. ... When I open a valve to let it bleed on it's own and it starts to flow, what exactly am I looking for? I presume there won't be heavy flow levels. Is that correct? How do I know when it is done and valve closed?
If I understand you right and if I need to pump the brakes just do it slow and gently. 2-3 times?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Dec 29, 2008, 5:41 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Thanks Loren for kicking in with this as it may do the Domino thing. I'll be off line most of Tues, 30th but right back.
ZmanWA
Sign in if you think of it so we know it's you. It will still post as you've seen.
To add as this is the whole "enchilada" going on: Eventually pedal will feel firmer and the squirt from bleeding will be more than a dribble. Know that now that calipers aren't frozen they retract like they should so aren't going to feel hard as a rock like frozen ones AND new pads even with new rotors can take a while to set themselves to each other so the "feel" of brakes should improve over the first 200ish miles of assorted use and stay stable from about there.
If you are still not convinced they feel proper - adjustment of rear especially if drum (disc style self adjust by nature and drum type can need help when a bit older) will restore a more proper feeling pedal. That's a page of notes just to do that right too.
Also note: The new caliper was empty so you plain know there was air to remove.
When ready for good test run, give gentle but sure stops at first. Again - brand new stuff doesn't always feel perfect right out of the gate but will (should) be secure rather quickly with a few stops. When in biz - all brake jobs went out for a good ride before customer got it back.
If bleeding really rears it's ugly head we can work on some tricks or blame the master at some point. Hang in there,
T
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ZmanWA
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Dec 29, 2008, 5:52 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Tom,
Signed in for you. Didn't realize I wasn't logged on. ... Going to try to gravity bleed tomorrow (I teach am off school all week so I have time). I've never fully understood the bleeding process. I've always been the helper!
I'm sure you're right that the new calipers were full of air + the system did endure some pumping (likely too much) during the first time through. Hopefully nothing is damaged and the "domino thing" doesn't happen. There are no apparent leaks. Want to proceed in the safest way possible. Assuming I don't break anything can get this done and actually learn something for the future.
Any and all advice (in layman's terms) will be truly appreciated. Have accomplished a lot so far in large part to you guys!
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 29, 2008, 6:05 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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When you see nice, new, fluid coming out of the bleeder...with NO air bubbles, you'll be done. Thanks for being a teacher, btw... A VERY important career. Which means, you have a LOT of patience! LOL.
Loren
SW Washington
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ZmanWA
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Dec 29, 2008, 6:20 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Thanks. I'll get more fluid in the morning and then tackle this. I'll report back so you know how this turns out - hopefully without any further issues.
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DanD
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Dec 30, 2008, 5:01 AM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Sorry to jump in here, so far into a thread but it seems that you’re having a problem figuring out when you’ve got the air out of the system.
What I’ve done with my apprentices, while training them on proper brake bleeding; is to have them use a bleeder bottle.
Easy to make and it takes all the doubt out of; is there’s still air in the system?
Any type of clear bottle, a rubber hose that will fit the bleeder screw snuggly and is long enough to reach to the bottom of the bottle; while attached to the bleeder screw.
Here’s how to use it; put about an inch of brake fluid into the bottle, place hose into bottle so that the end of the hose is submerged into the fluid.
Place your wrench on the bleeder screw and then attach the other end of hose to the screw.
Have your helper pump the brake pedal as described above in previous posts.
Open the bleeder screw and watch the bubbles coming out of the hose end that is in the bottle.
When there are no more bubbles; close the bleeder screw and you’re done.
As tempting as it may be; do NOT reuse the brake fluid in the bleeder bottle!
There may be contaminates in the fluid picked up from the hose, the bottle or whatever that could damage the hydraulic system.
Keep it fun and when it’s not anymore; take the vehicle in!
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
(This post was edited by DanD on Dec 30, 2008, 6:08 AM)
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Anonymous Poster
Dec 30, 2008, 7:38 AM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Dan,
I'll give this a try today. Love simple solutions. This has been fun so far.
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Anonymous Poster
Dec 30, 2008, 3:49 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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OK, got all the lines bled. First did the gravity thing. That took a long time but cleared the lines pretty good. Followed it up by doing all four wheels in proper order using the clear tube into a clear bottle of fluid to see the bubbles (worked very well).
Have taken on a 1-mile test drive with multiple stops. Two symptoms to diagnose now. Brake pedal is not firm. It must be depressed quite a ways before brakes engage. When they do, they work smoothly & efficiently. Also, the brake light is "on" all the time now (as if the parking brake is engaged).
Thoughts?
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 30, 2008, 3:59 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Dan; Is that brake fluid in the bottle? Looks a little more like Tequila?
Loren
SW Washington
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ZmanWA
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Dec 30, 2008, 4:06 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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OK, got all the lines bled. First did the gravity thing. That took a long time but cleared the lines pretty good. Followed it up by doing all four wheels in proper order using the clear tube into a clear bottle of fluid to see the bubbles (worked very well).
Have taken on a 1-mile test drive with multiple stops. Two symptoms to diagnose now. Brake pedal is not firm. It must be depressed quite a ways before brakes engage. When they do, they work smoothly & efficiently. Also, the brake light is "on" all the time now (as if the parking brake is engaged).
Thoughts?
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 30, 2008, 4:06 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Sounds like you've still got some air in the lines. Should have a nice, firm, pedal. If drum brakes in rear, be sure they are properly adjusted. Sometimes, it takes a few miles for the pads/shoes to seat. Also, once the pedal has been 'pumped' a few times, caliper pistons extended, should re-bleed the calipers. Hopefully, once all of the air is out of the system and master cylinder full, brake warning light will go out. If not, will need to do some more diagnostics. (sure hope you're not an English teacher..looking at spelling and punctuation )
Loren
SW Washington
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ZmanWA
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Dec 30, 2008, 4:17 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Don't teach English! Hopefully I'm just getting my thoughts across though.  ... I'm more than willing to do it all again. Just so you're clear, saw no air bubbles until the final wheel (LF). On first pump there were several, second pump there was one, third pump none. Did a 4th pump to be sure and no bubbles.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 30, 2008, 4:44 PM
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Re: brake caliper removal 95 Cherokee
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Whew! Not an English teacher. You are doing an excellent job of getting your thoughts through, btw. It's hard for me to get mine through. Just keep at it, and I'm sure you'll get it.
Loren
SW Washington
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