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1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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irishmantx
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Dec 5, 2010, 8:48 AM
Post #1 of 9
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1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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Dear Group,
1982 Ford Granada 3.3L engine. Oily soot found coming out of the tail pipe, and
uses oil more often than used to. (long skid mark / sooty oil stain) from the
exhaust pipe. Original engine since 1982, possibly warning sign engine might
go? It's used heavily and takes me to work back and forth serving as the only
family 'back up' car. (odometer has rolled a few times since original 25,000 miles
back in 1984.)
Is this a sign of bad times for this engine? This particular engine was assembled
in Canada, smooth good solid running engine. If possible, I rather go with a good
long block.
Things done to this car.
Replaced battery, MT-56 Interstate. Replaced Alternator, Water pump (at same time)
radiator hoses, belts, rear brakes (L/R), front disk brake line hose (L/R), coil springs
(x4 w/air conditioner), rear shocks, front struts, thermostat replaced, carb replaced,
front weather strip (L/R) replaced, ignition module, voltage regulator, negative battery
cable electrically taped black since it was originally 'red' possibly mistake of positive cable.
Wheel bearings serviced, rack and pinion steering unit replaced, and head lamps replaced.
Oily sooty exhaust noticeable after idle and running the engine, leaving approx 1 to 2 foot
long 'skid mark' or 'skid stain' on ground / floor of garage. Uses oil more frequently as it
takes a quart every week or after heavy use. Possible warning sign of engine failure?
Shalom,
irishmantx
76531
"OK Chewie, Try'er now! Woah! TURN IT OFF!!"
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 5, 2010, 10:08 AM
Post #2 of 9
(2092 views)
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Re: 1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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? Some confusion with just what this engine is. Is this the 200 CID straight six with one bbl carb? I just looked up a valve cover gasket with mixed info. 3.3 should = 200 CID inch and gasket like this.................
With the miles it's hard to say as so many things are possible. Any blue smoke? If any smoke out tailpipe what color? Does this oily soot run out tailpipe leaving a streaked mix of part burned oil and gas - did I understand that properly?
Is is running well now despite the mess it makes? What's taxing my mind is IF it runs on all six cyl. and doesn't smoke than a fair amount of raw fuel or oil is getting in the exhaust. Using some oil at VERY high miles isn't totally amazing nor means there isn't more left to go.
Lots to think about with this. Some engines will put out a trail a water from condensation in the cold exhaust but mostly when colder, humid air and would be dirty but would quit it when warmed up.
Could be sludge if any now not be allowing oil return to pan and valve guides are sucking down oil way too fast but if running well that would smoke and make a scene. You can get a good idea sometimes about sludge just looking in oil fill cap or take valve cover off for a real good look.
IMO if engine has to go the head need be in same condition or reworked. I didn't find reman whole engine available but they should be but not common parts houses. Used at the age would be rare to find a known good whole engine but if diagnosis shows this one is that worn I'd ask a reputable salvage yard for exact fit replacement.
It probably is worth paying for a professional diagnosis, compression and other observations to declare engine's needs.
Sorry for the long response - this has so many possibilities by age and miles it's an open book without some serious diagnostics,
Tom
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irishmantx
User
Dec 5, 2010, 6:24 PM
Post #3 of 9
(2082 views)
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Re: 1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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Dear Tom,
That looks about right!! Some blue smoke does puff out... To be honest, it runs 'OK' BUT....
Since the engine is original, and it takes more oil than normal, leaving a 1 to 2 foot stain of
streaking oil / exhaust soot, I surmise this engine is tired.
I rather get total complete long block with a warranty. I could get her over to a shop for
a full compression and engine diagnostic. At least see where I stand on the shape of this
engine. Or g-d forbid, engine goes, then get her towed. I told my dad (who owns the car)
about this.
One bit of good news, I got the new computer box w/chip back into my 1988 GMC S15
and it 'appears' to run smoothly. Got to test a few more times at certain times the truck
acts up and breaks down. :P So far so good. I hope, fingers crossed.. toes crossed, knocking
on all kinds of wood. lol
Well, I thought it could be something serious about the oily sooty exhaust. I never see this
car act that way. It runs a bit louder, takes more oil than normal, and now I remember I see
piddle leaks toward the front and back of the engine. Like 3 to 6 piddles of oil toward the front,
and 2 to 4 piddles of oil toward the back of the engine. Not sure if it's valve cover or gasket
warped and going bad. When I start the engine, it makes a rattle rattle noise... then goes away.
Belts squeal and hard to keep speed when I get past Warp 7 (70 mph) it shakes, may need front
end alignment, and new tires. :) I keep her between Warp 1 (10 mph) to Warp 6.5 (65 mph).
At any rate, this car is my family heirloom and I help spend money on the C-4 Transmission. I
don't mind saving up for the engine. I already spent money on the rest of the previous posted
items.
It's a 3.3 liter, 200ci engine, Straight 6 engine. Will fuel injection be better than carb?
Shalom,
irishmantx
76531
"OK Chewie, Try'er now! Woah! TURN IT OFF!!"
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 5, 2010, 8:16 PM
Post #4 of 9
(2074 views)
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Re: 1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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OK: This engine has probably had it and what you are experiencing is plain wear from VERY high miles with blowby past pistons and their rings and that will put pressure into crankcase instead of the minute vacuum it should be via the PCV valve. Bet it you just pull the dipstick while idling it blow out when it really should be slightly sucking in air there. Valve guids in head and their seals sucking in oil beyond what it can burn so some actually makes it out the exhaust!
BTW - none of this is good for the cat. converter which is probably dead and kinda surprised it isn't all clogged up.
The shaking is probably tire, wheel, wheel bearing adjustment. Alignment alone really shouldn't be the cause of imbalance or causing shaking if off but would make the cause worse if badly out of spec. With the miles you have to check everything - front end parts even if already done could need them again at a "few million" miles
Carb vs fuel injection. Late carbs were hard to meet emmsions and got more complicated and fussier than much older than this year of vehicle. You really can't switch it to injected as that would be an engineering project and legalities of the car could or would be an issue. Totally impractical and too involved to even think about that.
If you are going to invest in the reman engine start checking for what's available. Ford themselves might still have a reman available. It would be a total stroke of magic to find a good low mile original that matched exactly at the age. Don't expect a reman engine to compete with original new for pounding miles on them. They can only be truly new once,
T
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irishmantx
User
Dec 6, 2010, 10:46 PM
Post #5 of 9
(2063 views)
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Re: 1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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Dear Tom,
Thanks for the info! I had gone out to my 'donor' Granada for
some hard to find parts. My "donor" Granada is a 4.2L which is
a 255ci v8. (It's being used as a donor car since its too costly to
fix immediately.)
Anyways, I did find an air filter intake hose from the wall to the
filter. The old one on my mom's 1982 Granada fell and crumbled
apart. It fit good, and I agree with you about the 3.3L 200 engine.
OK: This engine has probably had it and what you are experiencing is plain wear from VERY high miles with blowby past pistons and their rings and that will put pressure into crankcase instead of the minute vacuum it should be via the PCV valve. Bet it you just pull the dipstick while idling it blow out when it really should be slightly sucking in air there. Valve guids in head and their seals sucking in oil beyond what it can burn so some actually makes it out the exhaust!
I agree with you, mom, dad and I put WAY to many miles on this engine. The
engine was built in Canada and I give credit that maple syrup makes every
thing better. :) (: HA HA! ;) ;) ;) It spits oily soot at least 2ft from tail pipe,
and I must admit, this engine is tired. The car is still good, with Tender Loving
Care, I hope it remains for the next generation. Thanx Tom for your advice.
Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy Holidays. Hope you and yours have
a wonderful holiday season, and if you drink too much egg nog, have a backup
driver ready to take you home, or sleep it off in the back seat. ;)
Money is being saved up over time, and save up for a new
engine. I want an engine that has a warranty and there are
rebuilds, but I want a 3.3L 200ci, Straight 6 long block. Is it a
good idea to get new water pump, alternator, carb, fuel pump,
and other parts, or salvage them off of the old engine, and how
much for a catalytic converter?
If all else fails, what engine places do you recommend for a
long block replacement? I don't want the hassle and issues with
rebuild the heads and the block itself. I realize its too much to
put into fuel injection, however, if I am super wealthy, or I meet
a nice sweet, wealthy, rich, financially deep pocketed Jewish
sugar cougar, I might want to hire the guy's at Overhaulin and
do some 'upgrades' and the legal team to make it happen. HA!
Other than that, it's by the book and back to factory standard.
Shalom
irishmantx
76531
"OK Chewie, Try'er now! Woah! TURN IT OFF!!"
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 7, 2010, 4:43 AM
Post #6 of 9
(2057 views)
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Re: 1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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The FORD cast iron straight six engines share quite a bit I recall. My own first was 144 CID in a 63 Falcon, a 200 CID in a 68 Falcon and by chance other Fords were all V8s. Some of these are identical with changes in stroke to change displacement. Many used the 250 CID then trucks went big on the 300 CID called a 4.9L.
What to replace with a reman engine:
If alternator is fine now re-use it. Water pump should be cheaper and probably would put a new not reman pump on. All new cooling system hoses and vacuum lines. Carb? I'd swap first and if needed just get a kit to rebuild it. Should be fairly straight forward if you have good instructions with the kit usually. rebuilt/reman for carbs is mostly a real good cleaning, new needle valve, accelerator pump and gaskets. The idle mix screw my have a hardened cap to prevent messing with the idle mixture. Procedures to remove that with a punch may come with a kit as there is a needle valve behind those - perhaps a "clutch" headed needle valve and you can buy just one socket for those head looks like white spot in this pic......
Idea is not to tamper with them as too many folks fussed with them and messed them up. For a good cleaning you need to take that out though. With those or any count turn in to a gentle bottom so you can duplicate where it was. If all is lost bottom it (gently is the operative word) and back off about 2+1/2 turns to 3 should be about right. For DIY carb things there are a few special tools. Kit is cheap and should come with specs and a thing to measure float level. If real fussy you find spec of float(s) and weigh them as they can sink from soaking up gas or be heavier and the level of fuel in the bowl is critical for proper fuel mixture. By mid throttle or wide open the idle mix isn't being used at all and too many people think it is the whole adjustment - NOT.
Rebuilt units can be good but I've had tons that needed way too many adjustments that were off. For the vintage you would normally set the idle speed on any and if all is good that's about all. Late carbs were a pill and full of tamper proof crap which can be defeated for cleaning up small holes/ports for fuel flow. I did do a ton of carb work back when.
Catalytic converter: Generally I would suggest an OE one but with this vintage aftermarket should be fine and tons cheaper. Dunno - if welded into the front pipe you may need more tools to cut old one out with care so replacement can just be clamps like a muffler.
Can't say for everywhere but I can't think of a state in US legal to just use straight pipe if a vehicle came with a converter. A good one doesn't harm performance for this and most applications.
Not sure what reman engine will have with it. Ask so you know and if you are doing this at all replace old stuff like plug wires or tune-up things that don't come with it.
Truth is in decades of car stuff I've never used a reman engine - always fully checked out low mile complete used that was a perfect match - no games. All were 100% good with a history. This is just too old to get that lucky.
It was my training and my opinion which may not be everyone's but no reman engine will have the propensity to last as long as a good original. For those making Hot Rods and that - do what you want. For a practical driver leave as much original as possible with most things.
Save up. There's still lots to do with a replacement engine,
Tom
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irishmantx
User
Dec 7, 2010, 3:13 PM
Post #7 of 9
(2045 views)
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Re: 1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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Dear Tom,
OK, I'm still not sure where to go, I guess I'm asking amiss, I wanted some
recommendation on which place to find O.E.M. or 'original' style engines? I
am on a tighter than a lycra leather corset budget, and I wanted a place to
get a replacement engine. I really don't know the history of 'used' engines,
and often some want to sell bull and sell me a wore out engine 'worse' than
mine. :(
But if you don't know of any places to direct me to procure an engine that
is CAST IRON, most original, and or avoid places that sell undesirable engines.
That's OK. I'll ask the mechanic about to perform the 'surgery' to take care of
it. I believe the carb was replaced last year. It runs good, water pump and
alternator was replaced together last year. Kept full of 50/50.
Also what steering columns will fit this Granada? It's a fox foundation style
and I was 'informed' that most Mustang parts for 1982 would fit some parts
on the Granada. The rear end, drive shaft, and the dash top?
Just wanted to make sure I knew where I was going on replacing an engine.
It's a vital investment, and wanted to make sure I sounded like I know I was
asking for, instead of being baffled by bull. :P
Shalom,
irishmantx
76531
"OK Chewie, Try'er now! Woah! TURN IT OFF!!"
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 7, 2010, 6:35 PM
Post #8 of 9
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Re: 1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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Engines: Holy cow - the exacting machine work to make one new is tough. A redo requires more specs to be checked and corrected that if all on paper you couldn't lift the book.
New and engine is cast. then line bored for as close to perfect for long shafts like crank and cam in this. New the engines each have their own DNA. You can't just swap crank bearing caps as once machined that's the fit for that one only. Even the machine tools for new only make so many "bores" before they are out of spec new! Redoing all that with a core engine is an art to itself and some come out well and some don't. They make parts that needed to be re bored to fit a new size but still it's a trade unto itself.
Cylinder walls don't wear evenly. When a cylinder fires the pressure of piston to cylinder wall is on one side so over time it loses it's perfect measurement for the travel of the piston. This is intense to get it all right at once.
************
Parts that interchange: Salvage places have a ton of data for what was the same for what models and years. I don't think any of us have the software for all of that but a good clue on some. Mercury made the Monarch which was the same body and most mechanical parts - just trim and sheet metal style, shape to look a bit different. I just dunno what other Ford products used the same exact body and think this one was on it's own. I actually don't know this car that well. There were Fairmonts, Zephyrs that might share many parts to Granada. TMK and FORD used names randomly for a while around then it could be also the same platform as once a smaller LTD and Marquis - none with V8s TMK and were unit body cars not chassis. Even Lincoln made a Versailles (sp?) that was really a dressed up Granada. Any decent salvage yard should know what can interchange,
T
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irishmantx
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Dec 8, 2010, 1:28 AM
Post #9 of 9
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Re: 1982 Ford Granada 3.3L A few million miles?
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Dear Tom,
With all of that said, worst case scenario, if and when there is a 'Warp Core Breach'
and a new warp engine is needed, chances are, it might be towed to a mechanic that
my folx trust, and would likely tell the mechanic to go find a new total long block that
will fit the car. My dad owns a 1994 Buick Century, and had to replace the engine since
a shade tree idiot did not change the oil and burned up the motor. The 'idiot' left town,
and stuck my folx a $3,500 front wheel drive engine. OR so the price for a front wheel
drive engine for a 1994 Buick Century. (NOT A NEW THREAD!)
Push comes to shove, its not 'my' car to make any decisions. It's the "mom and dad
back up utility car since dad don't want to drive his car as often as he wants" kind of
car. LOL. Tom thank you for the help, looks like I beg my mom and dad not to scrap
this cream puff, but get a new motor, after my obligated expected offer to help pay for
half of it. Full LONG BLOCK 3.3 Liter, 200ci, 6cylinder engine.
Since I drive it a lot, and did 'front' most of the repairs and parts, I hope to have some
say in keeping this car. It's a solid machine and scares a lot of the plastic car toy drivers,
when they see a "REAL" car on the road. :)
Shalom,
irishmantx
76531
"OK Chewie, Try'er now! Woah! TURN IT OFF!!"
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