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Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement


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superbsaint
New User

Oct 13, 2007, 8:56 PM

Post #1 of 9 (2605 views)
Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement Sign In

 
i have a 2003 Ford Escort ZX2 with 54,000 miles on it with a 2.0 Ztech engine.

I noticed a puddle of antifreee underneath my car and after further investigation determined it was coming from the thermostat housing. Brought it to the Ford Dealership for repair.

They did the repairs and i left. Aproximately after driving 2 miles from their shop my temperature gauge went all the way to HOT...i mean all the way over almost into the speedometer.

I pulled over and the car was not hot.

I brought it back to the Ford Place...thinking it was something they had done while doing the repair. After them looking at it a second time they informed me that the temperature sending unit had gone bad.

I thought it peculiar that it would go bad immediately after their repair...and asked them what caused it to go bad. They said that it was a short circuit in the wiring that caused this and that it could have happened at any time.

This certainly doesn't seem right or logical to me especially after their repair had to do with essentially the same thing.

Is it something they could have done in their replacement of the thermostat and thermostat housing to cause this to go bad?

I already payed them $351 for the initial repair and now they are wanting me to pay for this second repair which i sincerely believe was their fault.

Could someone please tell me if I am wrong in my reasoning?

Many thanks!!


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Oct 14, 2007, 12:07 AM

Post #2 of 9 (2603 views)
Re: Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement Sign In

Not sure for every application but if the temp sensor needed to be disturbed or moved from the housing (some are in the housing) then wiring and the sensor could have been damaged in the swap. I'm relying on your observation that the engine was NOT hot when it indicated it was and should have been boiling over at that extreme.

Likely that this is bad luck and could be sloppy work and now hard to say. Why did this cost so damn much $$?? Most housings fail from being over tightened which must have happened before this work so when did that happen?

T



superbsaint
New User

Oct 14, 2007, 7:26 AM

Post #3 of 9 (2602 views)
Re: Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement Sign In

It was the original thermostat housing. I have no idea why it cost so much??....they have parts listed on the invoice as 104.40 which included the housing , thermostat, a ring, and antifreeze....but then the labor...which i don't understand is listed at $210??....how long should a job such as this be listed as??....i have no idea what the charge is per hour, but i think i am going to talk to the service manager. I am thoroughly disgusted about this experience.

Thanks so much for your reply... i appreciate it.


In Reply To
Not sure for every application but if the temp sensor needed to be disturbed or moved from the housing (some are in the housing) then wiring and the sensor could have been damaged in the swap. I'm relying on your observation that the engine was NOT hot when it indicated it was and should have been boiling over at that extreme.

Likely that this is bad luck and could be sloppy work and now hard to say. Why did this cost so damn much $$?? Most housings fail from being over tightened which must have happened before this work so when did that happen?

T



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Oct 14, 2007, 8:15 AM

Post #4 of 9 (2597 views)
Re: Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement Sign In

I simply don't know that engine but alone that doesn't matter. You could see this leaking which suggests it didn't require going thru your oil pan to get at and there are some simple things that are nasty hard but a thermostat is not usually one of them.

I'll accept the parts costs. Even I was shocked (retired now) that just an original Ford thermostat and simple gasket I wanted for a restoration project - old but not that old - 89 common V8 - came to about $20 and ya could have had that for $16 with a biz discount still listed but not active so didn't chase that or just gone to a chain place and it would have been $5 bucks but I wanted original so I should shut up - right? I used my own anti-freeze etc which isn't all that expensive and shops would double thier actual costs for these things.

For yours I don't understand why the housing was broken to begin with?? If a senser needed to be removed from it it could have been sticky but if the housing was broken already you wouldn't need extra care not to break it in the swap - right? the $210 still suggests about 3 chargable labor hours! There is a labor guide that they should not exceed without a good reason and there may have been one - you'd have to ask. I does take some time to fill a system and make sure all air is out which is a bit of waiting for letting it get up to operating temp and checking - whatever.

The questions now come: Why didn't they notice the temp reading? You don't just fill up a cooling system without running the engine and know it's full.

It may only have a bubble of air in it now and need more coolant but that is their fault if that happened. It the temp senser failed when disturbed if it really needed to be that is possible bad luck but they should have noticed it!!

I still wonder why it needed this job to begin with. Thermostat job - perhaps. The housing at this age had to have been broken by misinstallation at some point or did it really corrode or something like that? Was it damaged with some other work or a collision in this car??

I worth bringing up as that's a lot of money for that job and worse it left you with another!!!!

T



superbsaint
New User

Oct 14, 2007, 9:09 AM

Post #5 of 9 (2596 views)
Re: Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement Sign In

Well yes....open looking at it before bringing it in for repairs...it looked like this had become very corroded.....just like it had been ate away???

I didn't know anything of it....till i left for work and got a call on my cellphone from one of my coworkers...they said i should pull over and check my car as when i left there was a puddle of anitfreeze on the ground.

I did also look at the overflow bottle not being at the minimum level before i left the dealership. I asked them about this and they said it probably just pulled itself into the radiator after it had ran awhile.....but....i always kept the bottle up to the minimum level myself......they had it empty!


In Reply To
I simply don't know that engine but alone that doesn't matter. You could see this leaking which suggests it didn't require going thru your oil pan to get at and there are some simple things that are nasty hard but a thermostat is not usually one of them.

I'll accept the parts costs. Even I was shocked (retired now) that just an original Ford thermostat and simple gasket I wanted for a restoration project - old but not that old - 89 common V8 - came to about $20 and ya could have had that for $16 with a biz discount still listed but not active so didn't chase that or just gone to a chain place and it would have been $5 bucks but I wanted original so I should shut up - right? I used my own anti-freeze etc which isn't all that expensive and shops would double thier actual costs for these things.

For yours I don't understand why the housing was broken to begin with?? If a senser needed to be removed from it it could have been sticky but if the housing was broken already you wouldn't need extra care not to break it in the swap - right? the $210 still suggests about 3 chargable labor hours! There is a labor guide that they should not exceed without a good reason and there may have been one - you'd have to ask. I does take some time to fill a system and make sure all air is out which is a bit of waiting for letting it get up to operating temp and checking - whatever.

The questions now come: Why didn't they notice the temp reading? You don't just fill up a cooling system without running the engine and know it's full.

It may only have a bubble of air in it now and need more coolant but that is their fault if that happened. It the temp senser failed when disturbed if it really needed to be that is possible bad luck but they should have noticed it!!

I still wonder why it needed this job to begin with. Thermostat job - perhaps. The housing at this age had to have been broken by misinstallation at some point or did it really corrode or something like that? Was it damaged with some other work or a collision in this car??

I worth bringing up as that's a lot of money for that job and worse it left you with another!!!!

T



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Oct 14, 2007, 10:01 AM

Post #6 of 9 (2595 views)
Re: Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement Sign In

Ok: There's a clear problem right away. The min level in the recovery tank is fine for when the car is stone cold and marked that way. Coolant expands and it should have another line indicating "full hot" and that's ok when fully warmed up. Being empty means it absolutely wasn't full and air was highly likely to still be in a closed cooling system which is improper - case closed on that part as the recovery bottle is only an indicator when the rad is known full.

Corroded housing to the point of leaking is really not their fault by itself. Thier job was to correct that and a new housing would be called for. It then is thier responsibility to check that the cooling system is properly filled and would be for any reason coolant needed to be lowered or emptied for some service. You said it read hot in just two miles and you may not know how long it had been since the engine had been run if just to park it out of the shop. We may not know that but if you picked it up the day they finished it was run that day. Any job that involves a gasket or seal gets checked before the car is released to the customer. Read any silly screw on oil filter for example and it will say start the car and check for leaks. I think your problem is the coolant is just too low and just filling the recovery tank takes many cycles to purge air out. This is not rocket science and a tech should know this. You as a customer aren't expected to finish the job - you paid them for that!

It's just expected (by me) that if in the course of doing a job you notice that there was more unseen problems you should be called to give a go ahead for more work than was expected. When t-stat was out did they comment on what the cooling system unseen with it in place didn't look so good or that this should be serviced further?

This work at your observation is already sloppy. Whether the sender is in fact not working now because of the work is a gray area. It could have been so close to failing for some reason that just touching it would finish it off. Perhaps and I'm still guessing that the senser even needed to be touched, they dropped it on the floor or something and you just have to trust the integrity of the shop and tech to admit that.

Still, the car was obviously not checked out before you got it back and that's an issue,

T



superbsaint
New User

Oct 14, 2007, 10:40 AM

Post #7 of 9 (2593 views)
Re: Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement Sign In

Thanks so much for your time and your replies... :)

That is what perturbed me a lot...about the coolant resevoir....I keep it at a specific level because i know that when it deviates from that it could possibly signal a leak somewhere.....and they didn't even go through the proper steps to insure it was at least at the full cold level.

I plan to speak with the service manager on monday (tomorrow) about my concerns.....

Thanks again for your time and help!!....


In Reply To
Ok: There's a clear problem right away. The min level in the recovery tank is fine for when the car is stone cold and marked that way. Coolant expands and it should have another line indicating "full hot" and that's ok when fully warmed up. Being empty means it absolutely wasn't full and air was highly likely to still be in a closed cooling system which is improper - case closed on that part as the recovery bottle is only an indicator when the rad is known full.

Corroded housing to the point of leaking is really not their fault by itself. Thier job was to correct that and a new housing would be called for. It then is thier responsibility to check that the cooling system is properly filled and would be for any reason coolant needed to be lowered or emptied for some service. You said it read hot in just two miles and you may not know how long it had been since the engine had been run if just to park it out of the shop. We may not know that but if you picked it up the day they finished it was run that day. Any job that involves a gasket or seal gets checked before the car is released to the customer. Read any silly screw on oil filter for example and it will say start the car and check for leaks. I think your problem is the coolant is just too low and just filling the recovery tank takes many cycles to purge air out. This is not rocket science and a tech should know this. You as a customer aren't expected to finish the job - you paid them for that!

It's just expected (by me) that if in the course of doing a job you notice that there was more unseen problems you should be called to give a go ahead for more work than was expected. When t-stat was out did they comment on what the cooling system unseen with it in place didn't look so good or that this should be serviced further?

This work at your observation is already sloppy. Whether the sender is in fact not working now because of the work is a gray area. It could have been so close to failing for some reason that just touching it would finish it off. Perhaps and I'm still guessing that the senser even needed to be touched, they dropped it on the floor or something and you just have to trust the integrity of the shop and tech to admit that.

Still, the car was obviously not checked out before you got it back and that's an issue,

T



Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Tom Greenleaf profile image

Oct 14, 2007, 2:31 PM

Post #8 of 9 (2590 views)
Re: Thermostat And Thermostat housing replacement Sign In

YOU DO UNDERSTAND THE RESERVOIR THING AND OF COURSE SO DO THEY! You are right - if you ever see it lower than expected or empty THERE IS A PROBLEM!! I've working in this biz for decades and all but two year by myself as sole owner and tech for the whole show as I couldn't stand being rushed by greedy shops. YOU HAVE to let the car cycle to purge out air. Duh - it warms up air comes out to reservior, cools down and only coolant returns. It that is empty it's stupid and just sucks back air. You don't need to sit and watch it for this. Are you paying $100 bucks an hour for someone to watch it drain?? I would go out till it warmed up after initial fill and when it burps you shut if off and let it cool again - repeat till it's stable - no problem. You can start the next project while this is going on.

When customer's were waiting and a good educated guess by me with a knowledgeable owner I would leave it a bit full at the reservoir and tell them (insist) that they check it and what to expect and give them extra coolant ready to add if the need be. There are folks that don't have a clue and I would just give them a ride home and say it's not ready yet even though the work is done!! They understood. Life is a rush and folks have to be home for kids and all kinds of things so you figure it out.

Imagine an auto body shop (not my trade) that is all finished but can't let the car go till the paint dries or worse charging you an hourly rate for the drying time!! Seems like that got figured in to your bill.

I'm a consumer of the trades out there too.

Again, the switch/senser could be bad luck but leaving you to take off with the car not properly filled with cooland is their fault even if an honest mistake,

T



oh21d 3nnrf
Anonymous Poster
iqakd75pte8@6zcbt.com

Jun 6, 2009, 9:10 PM

Post #9 of 9 (2418 views)
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Even subject line NG

Mods - let this stay for future use if needed -total junk - TomG

(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jun 7, 2009, 5:56 AM)






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