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Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla


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sumtum
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Jan 2, 2013, 7:30 AM

Post #1 of 26 (1470 views)
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Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla Sign In

I know it's an old car but I don't want to part with it just yet.

I just did a long trip in it and about 150km from home it started to jump and lost allot of power. It still runs but I can't accelerate past 70km an hour and most of that is momentum and when getting going from a stop position it is difficult as the engine seems to flood quickly. Its when I put my foot down the coughing really starts in low gear until I can get to a higher gear and coast with little acceleration.

It seems to idle fine, no different to before the problem, but when I accelerate it starts to cough and jump. I have just put new spark plugs in it before my trip and drove 1600 km in the car before this happened (with the new spark plugs). I checked them today and they are black where the spark comes out.

I had someone help me and follow me for a while (at night) and occasionally if I accelerate too much there is a small explosion and sparks come out the exhaust. I'm assuming this is a build-up of fuel being ignited when released.

My first guess is that this is a burn problem. Could it be that one spark plug has blown? (they are bran new pretty much but one could be faulty). Would that then put strain on the others making them go black and cause the car to lose power. Around the base of the ceramic there is a brown char (on all the spark-plugs).

My second guess is that this could be a carburetor blockage where there is a build-up of fuel and a sudden release and ignition of fuel (hence the sparks out the back of the exhaust). Everything is connected, no broken or leaking lines and the electrical cables are all connected.

Any clues as to what this could be?

In Summary (with some extra points):
-The car runs but I can't accelerate too much.
-Every now and then there is an explosion out the exhaust.
-Spark-plugs are black (they are also very new).
-The contact is fine and set correctly(in the distributor).
-The problem came suddenly whilst travelling down the highway at 100 kpm, there was a little bit of jumping (just a little, just before that. They felt like mini surges or misses (like a missed spark from a spark-plug)).
-A stranger stopped and helped me (very helpful, extremely
kind to stop) and he thought it may be the diaphragm on the
side of the distributor. He happened to have a spare so
we replaced it but it did not improve it.

Any clues?

Thanks very much.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 2, 2013, 9:57 AM

Post #2 of 26 (1420 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Try a new coil




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



sumtum
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Jan 2, 2013, 7:41 PM

Post #3 of 26 (1383 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

I have tried testing the ignition coil.

If I use an ohm meter and attach each contact + & - to the multimeter and get no reading at all (it is digital so I can see even the smallest reading), then would it be that the ignition coil has had it?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 2, 2013, 7:53 PM

Post #4 of 26 (1378 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

I'm not there to see what is happening but a coil will act as you describe. It will idle smooth and as the load is increased it will reach it's KV limit and just quit until you let off the throttle.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



sumtum
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Jan 2, 2013, 8:19 PM

Post #5 of 26 (1370 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Thanks.

I've tested the coil but I'm not sure what my test tells me.

If I attach the + and - terminal to an ohm meter my understanding is that I should get a resistance reading.

I get nothing. Is that a sign that it is faulty?

Thanks again.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 2, 2013, 8:22 PM

Post #6 of 26 (1366 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Yes, you will get a reading that way and you also get a reading from eith of those to the coil tower but those tests are pretty useless. That reading will dramatically change with temp and is very unreliable. A high resistance coil will will do it too.




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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



sumtum
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Jan 3, 2013, 12:01 PM

Post #7 of 26 (1325 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In


In Reply To
Yes, you will get a reading that way and you also get a reading from eith of those to the coil tower but those tests are pretty useless. That reading will dramatically change with temp and is very unreliable. A high resistance coil will will do it too.


I know I should get a reading but what if I don't? What does that tell me?


Discretesignals
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Jan 3, 2013, 9:02 PM

Post #8 of 26 (1311 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Is the battery good in your meter? If you touch the leads together, does the meter read 0 ohms?

Primary resistance should be around 0.4-0.5 ohms. Secondary should be around 7.7K - 10.4K ohms.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.

(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jan 3, 2013, 9:10 PM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 3, 2013, 9:12 PM

Post #9 of 26 (1303 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Which i already advised can dramatically change when the coil gets hot to the cold reading doesn't tell you much of anything about what is happening going down the road..




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



Discretesignals
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Jan 3, 2013, 9:22 PM

Post #10 of 26 (1298 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

I agree there. The only thing the ohming is good for it to see if the primary or secondary is open or if the secondary has some majorly shorted windings, which usually isn't the problem on most coils that fail.

Best thing is to scope primary's amps and look at secondary max KV with the coil loaded, but got a feeling the OP seems to have a hard time operating the meter besides using a scope.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


Sidom
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Jan 3, 2013, 10:31 PM

Post #11 of 26 (1288 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In


In Reply To
I have just put new spark plugs in it before my trip and drove 1600 km in the car before this happened

What brand of plugs did you use? If you still have the old ones, put them back in and see if this makes a difference....






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sumtum
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Jan 4, 2013, 11:37 PM

Post #12 of 26 (1253 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Well I changed the spark-plugs. No joy.
I also replaced the ignition coil with a new one. Still no joy. I did test the ignition coil and the primary was reading 6 ohms. Tried it at different times and it still was out compared to the .8 ohms which I have found several references to.

So I now know it isn't these two things. The contact is fine too. My only guess is a blocked Carbi but if that was the case then the car wouldn't idle as well as it does. It's just when I get to high revs that this problem starts. Coffs splatters, blow-backs sometimes. It happened suddenly while travelling down the highway at 100kph. I can see the fuel squirt into the carbi too.

Diaphragm on side of distributor also replaced.
Any clues?
Thanks

In Reply To


sumtum
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Jan 5, 2013, 1:21 AM

Post #13 of 26 (1245 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

I've gone over this again and I am now thinking that this carburetor (which is a twin system) has the secondary system fuel jet blocked. I can see the fuel come through in the primary system but nothing from the secondary. Is there a way of telling if the secondary system is working. It's purpose is to provide fuel at high speed which would explain why the car idles well (using the primary system), then plays up when accelerating. If I let the car sit for a while then restart and drive off, it performed slightly better. The ceiling rpm seems a little higher before it starts misfiring again.

If it is the secondary system then is there a way of fixing this without a complete carby rekit. I understand it's vacuum controlled so maybe there's something I can change there? Any idea's how to go about checking and fixing this problem? If the secondary diaphragm assembly has had it would the car behave this way? As mentioned this problem happened suddenly whilst travelling at 100kpm.


Thanks very much.


(This post was edited by tomadom on Jan 5, 2013, 1:24 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 5, 2013, 4:49 AM

Post #14 of 26 (1235 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Does this car have points in distributor? You mention KMs which means to me it wasn't sold to the US and who knows what it has. If so that could explain it. Points can go a long time but fail to make a good spark. You may have to look to see what the heck is in there,

T


sumtum
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Jan 5, 2013, 5:38 AM

Post #15 of 26 (1230 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

This is a Toyota Corolla 83 Model. Ke70 (Japanese). I'm in Australia.

If you are referring to the contact in the distributor then that has been set correctly. The contact points under the cap are fine too.

I can't think of anything electronic which hasn't been replaced which would cause this. Basically the car backfires and splutters at high revs.

If it's backfiring and sparks come out my exhaust then that's unburned fuel. If it's unburned fuel then I would assume that the carbi is working. Or maybe not?

Also keep in mind that this happened whilst driving along happily at 100kph then suddenly a loss of power then a blow-back. I can still drive the car but only at low revs. Does this sound familiar to anybody?

Thanks again.


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 5, 2013, 6:06 AM

Post #16 of 26 (1218 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Not sure what you are saying with the "points" thing. If real contact points like about everything was back when they can do and cause the problems you are having. Just an OHM setting on a multimeter can say how well they connect. They can be new, set right and still fruck up.

Old fart here. Points and condenser ignitions were the only game but did get used longer for export vehicles. Hey "Mate" as AUS would say it could be the problem. Just on the maybe list as they can do just what you described.

Now go back several decades and those of us who lived with them knew how to set the damn things when new such that the contact would be right. You can look at them and know if condenser is cooperating by the metal transfer seen on the points.

I could be off on the wrong tangent but it smacks of just this if this has real points. It needs to be ruled out and easy to do so. I could probably find some specs if points.

It's near 6am here in Boston, MA so I'm about done with the night shift here. I'll look for what you might find or another can help if this is the problem,

Tom
_________________________________________
Long retired now


sumtum
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Jan 5, 2013, 7:27 AM

Post #17 of 26 (1210 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Thanks.. Have a good day then.
Here is a picture of the inside of my distributor. The contact (probably what you are referring to as the points) is set correctly. Right space .8mm . Everything was working fine under this setting but something has now gone wrong.

Here's the photo. I'm at a loss as to what it might be. Rekitting the carby is the very last thing I want to do so but it's looking increasingly likely. Photo on the below URL.




(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jan 5, 2013, 9:42 AM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 5, 2013, 8:46 AM

Post #18 of 26 (1204 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

I can't make your pics show - too stupid perhaps but many have luck putting them on a host site like 'Photo Bucket" then copy and paste to here.

Points are just contacts that ride on a cam with the same # of bumps to open and close them as # of cylinders you have. Plain points look almost always like this..........



Looking down on this set up looks a bit like this.............


That is on a four cylinder engine just because I can see it.

You have to know if this is the type ignition system or we are on the wrong track or I am which isn't new. Please if not that type we need to move on.
Bear with me/us on this. I do know Toyota and others sold vehicles to meet specs for the destination. YOUR STEERING WHEEL IS ON THE WRONG SIDE! So called American cars wouldn't have done that.

There may be stickers underhood saying what speck a "tune-up" should be. If you see point gap or a dwell # let's fix this car. Try Google Images to find your distributor or a parts look up if you can't tell what this is.

I have a friend in Townsville, Queensland, AU if that helps and would ask.

Smile friend "mate" this is a world wide site not just USA but mostly so. These techs are sharp and can help. Let's win this issue,

Tom

e
_________________________________________
Long retired now


Sidom
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Jan 5, 2013, 11:30 AM

Post #19 of 26 (1193 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Since you are having the problem at high speeds this suggest that either something electrical is breaking down under load or you are have a fuel supply issue..

This is tough to diag online, when you drive them they both have different "feels" to them, something that you can't really describe...

If it's electrical, finding these problems can be hard because the problem isn't always there and since it's at high speed & under load makes it next to impossible to duplicate in the bay....

I would check out what you can with what you have. If you have a voltmeter and are familar with voltage drop testing. Drop test the vehicles main power & gound circuits and the circuits for the ignitions. If you aren't familar with this, then google "voltage drop testing" & I'm sure there will be some good info & maybe even a video or 2...

One other quick thing you could do, I believe that carb has a sight glass on the fuel bowl? If it does, when the problem is happening and you are in a safe spot to stop......Turn the engine off the instant the problem starts happening and pull over & check the sight glass and see where the fuel level is. If it's a lot lower than the normal level then more than likely you are dealing with a fuel supply issue..... Obviously make sure you are in a safe spot and don't turn the key all the way off so the wheel locks, but make sure everything is off & the engine isn't turning over by it's self if this is a manual tranny....






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sumtum
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Jan 5, 2013, 12:09 PM

Post #20 of 26 (1187 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Tom. Exactly as the picture you have provided.
4 Cylinder 1.3 Liter.

All... Keep in mind that and adjustment is unlikely as this did 1600 kilometers before this problem started. It happened suddenly. Like something snapped. Sometimes the ceramic which rubs against the centre shaft in the distributor snaps and I have to replace it. It is fine this time and the gap hasn't shifted. I used a spacer.






Sidom
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Jan 5, 2013, 12:25 PM

Post #21 of 26 (1184 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

I'm a little confuse as what part you are talking about the keeps breaking that you have fixed with a "spacer". I'm guessing that its the rubbing block on the points? The little piece that opens & shuts the points.....

All I wil say at this point is, I've seen a lot of jury rigged repairs ( that do work) on cars and engines just to get by, for whatever reason....

With that being said.....Once you start having problems AND it can be related to a system with a "rigged repair", it's tme to get that system back up to factory specs with the correct parts, even if you don't think that is what is causing the problem....

Like I said before....I've seen a lot of rigged repairs that do work.....But.....I've also seen a lot these rigged repairs to be the root cause of the problem.....and then the next biggest problem is trying to convince the customer that's the problem because...they don't buy it......They rigged it and it HAD being working great....right up to when the problem started.....






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(This post was edited by Sidom on Jan 5, 2013, 12:25 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 5, 2013, 12:26 PM

Post #22 of 26 (1180 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Thanks for watching me struggle Sidom. It's cold and sucks here right now. I do know carbie as said and the freaking points in distributor quite well. I have no clue what this thing is set up like. Sight glass on carb just might be. Fixing one could be a 500 page novel/textbook. Can we actually have an ENGLISH language barrier?

AU calls light bulbs "globes" and we all need to know all the names. Ground means "earth" - let's get it all right somehow. Smile - I'd love to go to AU if it wasn't on the other side of the world from here!

Keep thinking - we can fix this car. I am not sure this isn't a carbie probably quite yet. It has points that get neglected with age people forget they need attention or replacement or this type of crap happens. Got the "T" shirt on this type of mess,

T
_________________________________________
Long retired now


sumtum
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Jan 5, 2013, 6:13 PM

Post #23 of 26 (1157 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

I replaced the points before i left on my trip. 1600 km later my problem of the car not wanting to go over 60kmh started suddenly..

Whilst reading your posts I thought I was looking at old Texan speak from a Cormack McCarth novel. Even with my Aussie 40 / 20 vision I can see it's not the contacts/points or the spacer. Forget I mentioned the spacer snapping, it has nothing to do with it.

I'm at a loss. One solution is to push the car off a cliff and post it on 'Facetube'. What do you say?

Thanks for the replies so far but can we not mention points again.


(This post was edited by tomadom on Jan 5, 2013, 6:16 PM)


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator


Jan 6, 2013, 2:57 AM

Post #24 of 26 (1132 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Back on line for a while. This is still a points issue. They could have been set right once and not right now. What is the "dwell" reading on a dwell tach that most techs lost ages ago?

Put dwell on with one of those you see where it is. If distributor shaft is worn it will change more than 5 degrees with a snap of the throttle. I may be the last of the super old farts but that's what this means.

This setting must be right or the car will run like crap or not at all. I think I can come up with a setting for a similar car but off the top of my head I'll say 45 degrees of dwell that holds with various RPMs.

Toyota has been notoriously excellent with this crap. I think you have a worn out distributor right now and you will near only see that with a dwell tach. Other is to get engine in position and measure the point gap and wiggle the rotor or distributor shaft and watch if nothing else that you can change that gap.

No way I could say anything for sure but this is strongly the problem or must be ruled out. What is the dwell # at what RPM so we can put that to rest or not?
BTW - This was a Spring and Fall routine service back when and this car is from back when so fess up to what is going on,

Tom
_________________________________________
Long retired now


(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Jan 6, 2013, 3:05 AM)


sumtum
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Jan 6, 2013, 7:20 AM

Post #25 of 26 (1122 views)
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Re: Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla [In reply to] Sign In

Alright mate. Well, I've adjusted the gap, played around under the distributor gap and spun it, turned it. Had it in several different positions and still not running as it should at high revs but perfect at low revs.

Yeah, something could have gone deeper down in the distributor but given how many times I have worked on this car over the years, I know it well and nothing seems to have changed under the distributor cap. I know what you mean though, if the spacer snaps or the cap isn't set correctly, or the distributor isn't set in the right position (I use a timing light and it's set fine), then things can go bad, especially when revving up. This is different though. It's not like pining engine or a rattling, it's like a succession of bangs. Different to a badly set distributor timing or contact.

I'm taking on what you've said though and you're right it can play a big part.

What I'm trying to think is whether or not there is another electrical part other than the ignition coil which could cause this problem. What does the Balast resistor do? Any other electricals which could fail under load?

Thanks again.


(This post was edited by tomadom on Jan 6, 2013, 7:22 AM)




Car running but can't accelerate too much - 83 Corolla


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