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97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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rowdyrinny
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Mar 7, 2009, 5:43 AM
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97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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we have a 97 chevy cavalier, engine size 2.2, approximately 160K miles.
this car's been running pretty well since we've had it two years now.
sometimes the battery cable has needed tightened when it wouldn't start.
most recently there's been a problem with a plug under the passenger side dash that controls the heater which won't function right without this being connected properly. it's been a problem keeping it connected lately. i don't know if this is associated with the current situation that occured yesterday but i wanted to mention it because i am clueless and need help please.
the kid was cleaning the car out yesterday and had the doors open and radio on for about 15 minutes. when he went to start it the next time, nothing.
it won't turn over but the lights and door dinger, power windows, etc. all work.
the battery was jumped by three vehicles and tested at the autozone and is good.
there is a part that keeps making a clicking noise when the car is trying to be started.
we are only assuming this could be the problem but have not a clue what it is.
any help with this matter would greatly be appreciated.
i'm glad i've found a spot to seek such advice.
thanks,
renee
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 7, 2009, 6:08 AM
Post #2 of 18
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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With battery testing ok, history of tightening ends with results and three attempts at jump starting not working I suggest the battery cables are still a problem. It may need new cable ends at the battery and the other ends of each need to be inspected and cleaned as needed.
The heater thing with a plug and problem. Depending on the type of plug you can twist on spade types, squish round female type connectors a tad or may have to replace that.
What are the pics for?
T
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rowdyrinny
Novice
Mar 7, 2009, 6:30 AM
Post #3 of 18
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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thanks for that info. we will check it out first thing.
the pics are of the part we suspect is the problem but we don't know what that part is.
i was trying to find out even if that isn't the problem what that part is because curiosity has
my attention now. this part shown in the photo clicks whenever you try to start the vehicle.
it seems like something isn't firing in relation to that part. would you know what it is?
thanks.
renee
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 7, 2009, 6:42 AM
Post #4 of 18
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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First things first and that part has nothing to do with whether the engine will crank under battery power. That part is the EGR valve and not the upfront problem but would be involved if it ran lousy or didn't pass emissions tests.
There's a view of one removed. Forget that for now,
T
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Mar 7, 2009, 6:45 AM)
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rowdyrinny
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Mar 7, 2009, 6:52 AM
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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okay, thanks. now i know. see, i told you we know nothing. lol.
it will be a few hours before the old man gets in to get started on it
for the day but i will be back to let you know what takes place.
i will dismiss that part now as a problem but i still appreciate knowing
what it is. the car has been running fine really. so we'll focus on the
battery advice you gave to begin with. thanks a ton, really.
renee
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 7, 2009, 8:47 AM
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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That's a typical side post GM battery cable. The originals aren't so special and fail right there at the ends at the battery. They make just new end splices or whole cables that are better than originals. 
 Battery cables lose their effectiveness over time. As the copper in the cable ages, it loses its conductive properties. Cuts or mars in the rubber jacket can also expose the cable and allow it to oxidize. The ends and terminals corrode.
If you are experiencing hard starting or no starting, new battery cables may be the solution.
Those show some types of battery cable ends. Ends alone can be bought to splice in. Get good ones as they do have real cheap ends - ok in a jam but do whole cables or the better ends.
THOSE PICS AND SOME WORDS JUST COPIED FROM SOURCES OUT THERE FOR PICS,
T
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Mar 7, 2009, 6:44 PM
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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>>THOSE PICS AND SOME WORDS JUST COPIED FROM SOURCES OUT THERE FOR PICS<<
Whew! Thought at first, you raised the hood of your Chev and took a pic.
Loren
SW Washington
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rowdyrinny
Novice
Mar 8, 2009, 3:51 AM
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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okay here's the latest. when hubby got home, he sprayed a bunch of stuff with wd40. banged on the starter and solenoid a couple times. took out all fuses and cleaned them and the car started, over and over and over. a few times it was sluggish to start but it started. so he shuts it off and proceeds to fix the heater problem. when he got done, the car would not start again. so, the starter was taken off and sent for testing and was okay. because he broke the solenoid he replaced it and still nothing. we are at a complete loss now. someone suggested an O2 sensor and someone suggested a crankshaft position sensor. any ideas? oh and battery cables were also replaced first before starter was messed with. we need this running today if possible so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. thanks alot for all the info so far.
renee
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 8, 2009, 6:37 AM
Post #9 of 18
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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NEW BATTERY CABLES! WHEN - HOW LONG AGO AND WHAT TYPE?
This really seems primal as it goes. If a known good battery (yours or jumped) doesn't crank engine via a known good starter then there's a connection problem - almost without doubt. O2 sensor is about how it runs not how it cranks. The starter will work on the floor without a car at all! It's out there but possible that a crank sensor is throwing off timing such that engine is fighting with itself but it this runs worth a damn when it runs I really doubt anything like that for now. Keep in mind that the starter is just a dumb starter. Take a lawmower analogy. If you can pull the cord the engine turns. If that cord stretched while you pulled it wouldn't turn that engine. That's all the starter is there for is to pull the cord for you - not anything else to do with the engine. It doesn't care if the engine is junk, doesn't run, is out of fuel or anything - it just cranks it!
Put a voltmeter on the battery while attempting a start. If voltage at battery drops (say below 9v) at the bolts of the battery the battery amps is low. If that alone a jump start should work. Now test voltage drop from the starter end of pos cable and it should be about the same drop noted or cable issues are the issue. If much lower than first test it isn't getting the power thru to it,
T
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rowdyrinny
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Mar 8, 2009, 8:30 AM
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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new battery cables just yesterday, duralast brand from autozone. he did go to tighten the ground and broke it so he has to get a new ground kit now. then we'll try the voltmeter. thanks alot. any other ideas, please keep them coming. thank you.
renee
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Mar 8, 2009, 9:11 AM
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What broke that require a "ground kit" as you called it? There'a no ground kit! It's whatever bolt was used on the engine.
The ground should have been removed to inspect and cleaned or you said replaced so how did that bolt break. It just goes to the engine block and if it will reach another solid engine ground would work but whatever broke concerns me and concerns me that is broke in tightening when it should have already been off for the new cable and threads cleaned up. If that broke from removing it then corrosion is an issue and that's hard to deal with sometimes. The part that broke (while tightening ground) may be seriously important and need fixing. It might have been on a braket for something else - I just don't know exactly where every ground cable is attached on every vehile. It also concerns me that you said the solenoid was smashed too in the course of hammering or tapping on the starter motor. Shouldn't have been hammering on the solenoid at all so there's a problem with that or real bad aim?? That trick wasn't called for with the symtoms so far either and it's really just a last ditch trick.
Are we having some issues with judgment or is this just so corroded up that things are busting all over the place?
Keep at it and while waiting it would help if the battery was on a charger if nothing else to do at the moment,
T
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rowdyrinny
Novice
Mar 9, 2009, 1:43 PM
Post #12 of 18
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my bad, wrong wording, not ground kit, just the ground. a nut broke during untightening. it's fixed though now. still nothing. any other suggestions? we've tried everything you've suggested so far and then some. thanks for the advice.
renee
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way2old
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Mar 9, 2009, 3:03 PM
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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If I may suggest a dumb idea. Have you tried another battery just for giggles? If you can borrow one from another car just to try. I have seen the posts break off internally and make contact, but not enough to start car. Just throwing dumb ideas here.
Being way2old is why I need help from younger minds
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rowdyrinny
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Mar 10, 2009, 9:43 AM
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hey, we'll try anything at this point. if anyone has anymore ideas, please keep them coming. i don't know if he'll work on it tonight or not because it's rained cats and dogs here all day. we have no garage. wish us luck. thanks again for all the helpful info.
renee
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leevit2stever
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Mar 11, 2009, 10:54 PM
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 OK, First of all, whoever suggested the o2 sensor,and the crankshaft position sensor is a 
If its not cranking over,or cranks slowly,its a voltage problem at the starter or starter solenoid.
Get a volt meter,and make sure your getting at least 12 volts at the starter. If I may go out on a limb,its possible to
have good voltage at the cable ends but if you have a weak ground,all the voltage in the world dont mean squat.
Try changing where the negative cable from the battery,bolts to the engine. (attach it to another bolt,that goes
into the engine block) Also, take a pocket knife and strip back a section of the insulation on the cables abount an inch or so away from the battery posts,if its green and icky it could pose a problem.
You said you had the starter checked,did they give you a paper read-out of the test results? If so, what was the Amps
it was pulling when activated? and is it more amps than your battery supplies?
Have your battery load tested to make sure you have a full 12 volts if it drops below 10 volts under load replace it
(This post was edited by way2old on Mar 12, 2009, 2:28 PM)
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rowdyrinny
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Mar 12, 2009, 12:22 PM
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sorry folks i haven't been around for a few days. the weather didn't allow for working on the car for a day or so. but, good news, good news, it was up and running around 3 o'clock today. i wanted to be sure and let you all know what it ended up being and also to thank everyone for the most generous advice. don't ask me how exactally we came upon it other than noticing the anti-theft light coming on and off eratically. i mentioned it to a friend who mentioned it to a friend who happens to be a mechanic who showed up here this afternoon and ran a diagnostic on it and re-set the computer to re-set the theft system. fired right up. good news is also the diagnostics didn't reveal anything else wrong with the vehicle. he did say it was a death trap in that the back brakes are shot. they are next on the list but those we can do. lol. just wanted to be sure and let you kind folks know how much your advice meant when we were totally clueless and also what the problem was. have a great day.
thanks again,
renee
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way2old
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Mar 12, 2009, 2:27 PM
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Thank you for the fix post. We rarely get those and it is nice to know someone cares enough to post the fix. Glad it is going and good luck with it.
Also leevit2stever, this is not a forum to degrade or downgrade anyone. If you do not agree with another diagnosis, state your reply and leave the belittling remarks out. I am going to remove some of your remarks. Thanks. way2old
Being way2old is why I need help from younger minds
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
Mar 14, 2009, 1:45 PM
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Re: 97 Cavalier won't start-please help identify this part
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Sorry
Didnt mean to offend anyone
When I was a mechanic I prided myself on accurate
diagnosis and not selling people things they didnt need. When I see suggestions that are miles away from anything to do with the problem,I get offended
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