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95 corolla Engine miss


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twahl
User

Jul 19, 2018, 4:46 PM

Post #1 of 24 (580 views)
95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

I have a 95 toyota Corolla dx. 1.6l 210.000 miles auto trans.

I have a miss fire. When it first started not sure if it was electrical or fuel.
I tried to pin down when the miss is mostly happening.
It does it on a cold engine and a hot engine.
It does it mostly on a slow acceleration and when you’re holding at a constant speed. Less at highway speed and more at city speeds between 20 and 40 mph.
It does it on hard acceleration only at low RPM
At a high RPM it does not miss.
It seems to be sporadic. One day it will miss like crazy the next day hardly at all.
Since then I have replaced;
Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, fuel filter, fuel pump and crank sensor.
I took the throttle body off and cleaned it as well as the Throttle Position Sensor and the Air Idle Control Valve.
Both valves seemed to be working as when the car was running I unplugged them and it for sure made it run worse. I did not test them with a voltage or ohm meter.
I also disconnected each spark plug wire one at a time and drove it. It for sure ran rougher but I could still feel that distinct miss coming from the engine so I felt it was not a spark miss fire. That said the miss feels like a spark miss fire.
I did the same with the fuel injectors. Still could feel the miss.
I checked each injector with an Ohm meter. All were around 15 Ohms. I also used a stethoscope and could here them clicking when it was running.

I brought to a local garage. They swapped out the distributer and TPS. Still did not solve the problem.
The mechanic thought it might be the ECU.
I got a used ECU and plugged it in. It ran worse than the original one. Put the old one back in and it runs good but with the miss previously described.

I can't find any vacuum leaks.

I also checked fuel pressure and it is constant around 45psi.

I was able to hook a light to the distributor. When it does miss I can see the light flicker. I would say that means there is an electrical issue somewhere. Following the wiring harness from the distributor it makes way back to the main harness and through the firewall and what I believe to be to the ECU. I think it may be electrical.

No idea if the ECU is causing this but seems likely. A new one is $200 and it is a reman from a company in Fl. I wish there was a more definitive answer if it was the ECU and to tell the miss fire is being caused by that. The problem also seems to be getting worse as time goes on as well.

I am getting no codes or a check engine light

I am not sure what to do next as I am stumped. My wife just talked me in from the ledge and baited me with a beer. lol...I am out of ideas besides taking the plunge on a new ecu. Any thoughts?


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 19, 2018, 5:16 PM

Post #2 of 24 (566 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

 


Quote
I also disconnected each spark plug wire one at a time and drove it. It for sure ran rougher but I could still feel that distinct miss coming from the engine so I felt it was not a spark miss fire.


Whether you are unplugging an injector or pulling a plug wire, you are killing a cylinder either way so you can't say you know it's not spark related.

The next thing you need to do is a complete compression test which you should have started with at that kind of mileage.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



twahl
User

Jul 19, 2018, 7:12 PM

Post #3 of 24 (538 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

I understand the issue of a compression check but it doesn't burn oil and based on the light test when it flickered when it missed tells me it is an electrical issue.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 19, 2018, 7:22 PM

Post #4 of 24 (533 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

OK, so you've got it all figured out. I can just close this now.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



twahl
User

Jul 19, 2018, 7:32 PM

Post #5 of 24 (529 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

wow


Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

Jul 19, 2018, 7:37 PM

Post #6 of 24 (525 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

This isn't a debate. You come here for advice. If you don't take it, then we just stop giving it.

You seem to know a lot less than you think you do.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



twahl
User

Jul 19, 2018, 7:39 PM

Post #7 of 24 (520 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

you are right it is not a debate. I will check the compression. I only offered thoughts. I am not a mechanic. I was advising what I have found so far and my line of thoughts. No disrespect intended.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 19, 2018, 7:48 PM

Post #8 of 24 (513 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In


Quote
I understand the issue of a compression check but it doesn't burn oil and based on the light test when it flickered when it missed tells me it is an electrical issue.


That statement couldn't be more wrong.

I don't know what kind of light you are referring to or how it was hooked up but according to you, everything in the ignition system has already been replaced.


Quote
Since then I have replaced;
Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, fuel filter, fuel pump and crank sensor.



Quote
I brought to a local garage. They swapped out the distributer and TPS.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



twahl
User

Jul 19, 2018, 8:07 PM

Post #9 of 24 (495 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

I think so as far as replacing the ignition system in regard to as many things that have been replaced. The light i was referring to was I hooked up a 12v test light in series with the distributor and it flickered when it missed. Thats what I was referring to earlier. I will compression test it tomorrow. I appreciate your input on this. thanks.


Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

Jul 19, 2018, 8:17 PM

Post #10 of 24 (484 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

I'm still not real clear on where and how you hooked up this test light.

Are you referring to the primary circuit or the secondary circuit? Where exactly did you put that light?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



twahl
User

Jul 19, 2018, 8:19 PM

Post #11 of 24 (482 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

The garage put in a new distributor and a new TPS but it still missed so they removed the new ones and put the old ones back in. They did tell me that there was a service bulletin on the distributor from toyota with these vehicles that is why they put a new one in and when it still missed they put the old one back in.


twahl
User

Jul 19, 2018, 8:20 PM

Post #12 of 24 (480 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

primary and secondary im not sure what that is. I can send you a photo of it so you can see what I am trying to explain.


twahl
User

Jul 19, 2018, 8:50 PM

Post #13 of 24 (460 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

I posted two photos in the photos section. I hope you can see them.

http://autoforums.carjunky.com/photos/index.php


Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
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Jul 20, 2018, 1:33 AM

Post #14 of 24 (438 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

twahl: Couldn't make your pics show not a surprise they are fussy to work. Q. Primary and Secondary is low or high voltage items respectively.
At the age and miles and a parts cannon already used it's own problem I still read (sorry if missed something) it's "random" so compression or fault with intake more suspect to me. Gaskets sealing vacuum or metal flawed, corroded perhaps could be all hell to pin down. Uggh! Either can be off by an exhaust restriction.
IDK - I have a fear of so many new parts possible wrong specs for spark plugs or wires to them either or both?
More testing and less parts tossing suggested. You might even find compression too high! That takes more for spark to jump at a plug so it would seek an easier route showing the sparks I think you see?


T



Hammer Time
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Hammer Time profile image

Jul 20, 2018, 3:54 AM

Post #15 of 24 (426 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

Your link was not to a specific picture, just the department.
You have to go in there under your account and click on the "get links" for the specific picture you uploaded and then copy the top one and paste it into your question.



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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



twahl
User

Jul 20, 2018, 7:29 AM

Post #16 of 24 (407 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In







(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jul 20, 2018, 7:40 AM)


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 20, 2018, 7:44 AM

Post #17 of 24 (397 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

I brought your images into the thread.

I can't tell what the hell you are monitoring there. It appears to be a black wire which would likely be a ground. That would make your test a voltage drop for the ground circuit.

Why don't you make sure all your body and engine grounds are securely attached.

You need to be real careful messing with a test light like that. You can easily fry the ignition module or ECM that way.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



twahl
User

Jul 20, 2018, 11:13 AM

Post #18 of 24 (370 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

Thanks for bringing over the pics.

That harness has 4 wires. the top 2 are green and white the bottom 2 are black one with a white stripe. The power was on the bottom 2 black ones.As you can probably tell electrical is not my a strong point of mine

I did the compression check. one cylinder was 140. the other three were 135-136-137

Plugs looked equal as far as color.

I will check grounds next. Thanks


Discretesignals
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Discretesignals profile image

Jul 20, 2018, 1:04 PM

Post #19 of 24 (340 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

You sure that isn't a 1.8L?





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


twahl
User

Jul 20, 2018, 1:57 PM

Post #20 of 24 (323 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

I ran the VIN through Toyota web site and it is a 1.8l

I have had the car about 1.5 yrs. The sticker under the hood states it is a 1.6 but in the family of the 1.8.

Can it get it any worse. although the parts I been getting have been right at least looked right.


Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Hammer Time profile image

Jul 20, 2018, 1:59 PM

Post #21 of 24 (320 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

No wonder I couldn't match up wire colors.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.



twahl
User

Jul 20, 2018, 3:43 PM

Post #22 of 24 (296 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

Here is a little more info. Tonight driving into town about a 10 mile trip at various speed limits. Only missed one time on initial acceleration from a stop at about 25 mph. Yesterday It was missing 3-4 times from start until it shifted into 2nd gear and continued missing at cruising speeds as it has been. I am not sure that helps but it just a little more background on what it is doing. I will get to checking the grounds tomorrow afternoon and report back.


Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky / Moderator
Discretesignals profile image

Jul 20, 2018, 4:31 PM

Post #23 of 24 (284 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

Do you have one of those adjustable spark tester? That ignition system should be able to supply at least 20 to 30 kv. With an adjustable spark tester you can make up the gap as big as you want to see how the coil performs with a load. From the way you're describing this misfire it sounds ignition related. It would be important for the coil to have a good power supply from the ignition switch. The coil also needs a good cut off time from the igniter. Most of the time on things like this an oscilloscope is required. With a scope you can monitor the IGT signal, the coil amperage waveform, the coil control voltage, the power and ground to the igniter and distributor while the problem is occurring to get an idea what to look for.

Our shop has seen lots of problems with aftermarket remanufactured Asian type distributors. I've been eatin so many times because the OEM distributor isn't available and the only resort is to use the aftermarket type.





Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.


twahl
User

Jul 20, 2018, 5:41 PM

Post #24 of 24 (272 views)
Re: 95 corolla Engine miss Sign In

Ok. Thanks for the info. I will have to take in to have someone hook up a scope. I do not have an adjustable spark tester and the test you are talking about I don't have much knowledge in testing electrical. With help I can navigate things pretty well. I do have a volt/ohm meter. Anything I can do with that? I still need to check grounds so maybe that will help with the issue. Thanks






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