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2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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Terry d
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Sep 2, 2012, 2:42 PM
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2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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I put on new tires and had alignment done. the shop said it was toed in. It is somewhat better now it does not dart from left to right anymore but it is a fight to keep it in the road. It is like it too loose in the front. The shop says everything is in good shape in the front end and they don't know what else could be wrong unless the steering box needs to be replaced. It has 200k plus miles and I don't want to start changing out parts just to see if it will fix it.
Any ideas?
Thanks in advance
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 2, 2012, 2:58 PM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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They are saying that they already checked those things.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Terry d
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Sep 2, 2012, 3:08 PM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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Yes they checked all but did not check the steering box
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Hammer Time
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Sep 2, 2012, 3:16 PM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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You can't do a real alignment without checking that first.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Terry d
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Sep 2, 2012, 3:20 PM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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How can you check the gearbox? I looked at it and the unjointed looked tight but I don't know what else to look for?
There is not any play in the wheel
(This post was edited by Terry d on Sep 2, 2012, 3:23 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 2, 2012, 3:23 PM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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With the car sitting still, slowly move the steering wheel back and forth while watching the tire and stop when the tire starts to respond. That will tell you if you have play int the steering anywhere. Someone will have to observe the box and linkage to determine exactly where the play is.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Terry d
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Sep 2, 2012, 3:33 PM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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When the car is running there looks to be about 4or5 inch play. But when it is not running it looks to be only about 2 inch of play
Does that sound right or is that to much play?
(This post was edited by Terry d on Sep 2, 2012, 3:59 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 3, 2012, 4:14 AM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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If regular steering box mounted on frame as I think it is - just turn key enough so steering wheel is free (engine off) open hood and turn shaft looking at that and how much it turns before "pitman" arm at bottom moves. Should be near nothing loose there. Careful but now with helper turning wheel with weight on front wheels turn back and forth looking at any movement at joints at steering box or anything involved in steering the wheels.
That should all have been deemed good with a good alignment without you asking specifically. Yes - loose and even the crest of a road this could dart and play catch at an extreme of loose or free play from any cause. If tires are not the right ones that can play into how it behaves but not freeplay,
T
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Terry d
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Sep 3, 2012, 8:58 AM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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Doing it the way you ask I see no play in the wheel at all. It is more like when you turn the wheel even a very little it will go but it wants to keep going that way and then you have to turn it back and it all starts over again the other way. So it is back and forth over and over again
I have never put on new shocks or wheel bearings. Could that have an effect? The shocks don't seem loose.
(This post was edited by Terry d on Sep 3, 2012, 9:02 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
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Sep 3, 2012, 9:38 AM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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Had to be a full moon OK - If no freeplay then no freeplay and hoping all things for suspension have been checked for wear so that isn't the issue.
Two maybes still at large. It is "Caster" that makes the wheels want to return to center. While driving, negative caster would continue the slightest nudge that way if you were not holding on. Try backing up most cars/vehicles in reverse with wheels turned, let go and they most usually won't aim for center again at they should in forward. Hey - careful if you try antics like that as a test.
You should have a printout from alignment of before showing what it was and after that all is within specs now. If not in you possession why not?
Other issue would be rare to me is variable power assist or fault with it completely. Try just moving with steering wheel straight ahead and centered just so tire scuffing of just being in place is not involved and shut engine off. Let go of wheel and see if it wants to turn by itself either way or if nudged wants to continue if you let go all just sitting still.
If nothing obvious as that you could try that with both front wheels hoisted. There could be features I'm unaware of but don't think this car should be steering itself - assist yes, alone NO.
An alignment wouldn't show faulty power assisting action just the angles involved. Right now I'm ruling out any problem with the rear end being involved by the description but if parts holding that in proper position aren't correct or worn car might shift a bit wanting one way or the other with power applied, coasting, or maybe braking. That should be on the printout that it is in spec.
It shouldn't be doing this and with your description(s) the alignment place may or should take another look and test drive it if need be. Even if that shop doesn't repair the problem found if something out of their area they should know what is suspect,
T
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Terry d
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Sep 3, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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2 questions. Is caster a part or a turm used in alignment or both? And when you say power assist that is the power stering unit right? And if it is the power steering unit how can you tell if it is bad because it turns easy if anything it turns to easy
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Sep 3, 2012, 3:14 PM
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Re: 2001 grand marque wandering while driving
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Without dumping a bunch of geometry angles and diagrams on you CASTER is just a setting that makes the wheels want to go straight ahead. In lay speak just look at a plain bicycle and note there is a line as front wheel pivots to turn exaggerated on a bike that top pivots towards rear and bottom towards front such that you could let go of handlebars. If you ever pushed a bike backwards wheel wont stay, forward it will. Other is front wheels of shopping cart are "castered" to do that action.
Power assist. You turn by hand with power level "X" say, then the assist senses that an multiplies the force you suggested. Some out there are 'variable' assist that assists more when slow like tight parking and less moving along for some better road feel.
Not common but same basic idea had a gearbox on a car that plain wanted to turn the wheel by itself but only one way and always. It can happen and that was the only proven one to me.
Really think you should let the alignment tech or another well rounded mechanic check this and drive this. Arggh - lots of parts in a car - there's also some thing in the steering shaft along the way to dampen harshness and or some will use a "U" joint if not a straight shot from steering wheel to the gearbox. Would hope you could just see the shaft with hood open and notice something wrong. A real tech should find this,
T
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