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1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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huxley
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Mar 14, 2008, 6:59 PM
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1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Hey,
Been a while since I've been here-I've missed you all. Finally got my car legal and have been driving it around my region. Something it has been doing since day one is stalling out after the car has been cruising at highway speeds for a little while.
Details on the car - 1992 Pontiac Grand Am 2.3L 4 cylinder OHC engine. 26,500 miles (yes, actual mileage). No other major problems except a wobble in the front end, probably due to the car sitting for at least 1 and possibly as many as 3 years before I got it. New tires coming soon (best website to order from in terms of price?) and other fluids being changed out next week (Syracuse NY doesn't lend itself to much maintenance when you don't have a garage.
Details on the problem-occurs anytime I've been cruising at highway speed. When I come to a stop, it stutters and then stalls. Starts right back up again without issue. If I rev the engine and then shift into drive almost immediately, I can get going again until I have to stop. If I put the car in neutral, it doesn't occur at all. As soon as I put it in drive it might die again. This ONLY occurs after highway driving and only then after about 5 minutes. This never happens in city driving, ever.
So, my guess? I need to replace the toque converter clutch solenoid because it is sticking open. Am I right? I just wanted to be validated.
I also noticed my gas mileage is pretty crappy-could that be due to the wobble in the front?
Any help will of course be appreciated-and if Tom answers-hi Tom! I've got a personal question for you regarding bodywork down the road...I'll PM you or you can PM me.
Thanks all,
Nate
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huxley
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Mar 16, 2008, 11:48 AM
Post #2 of 20
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Any ideas guys? I really want to make sure I'm right before I go the extra mile to try and replace this thing.
Thanks!
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Double J
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Mar 16, 2008, 12:41 PM
Post #3 of 20
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Hi..
From what you describe,Yes ,I would say it is the TCC solenoid.
JIm
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way2old
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Mar 16, 2008, 1:12 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Unplug wiring for the solenoid and see if problem goes away. if it does, solenoid is more than likely at fault.
Being way2old is why I need help from younger minds
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huxley
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Mar 16, 2008, 7:28 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Hey way2old,
Sorry for my ignorance here, but how do I unplug the wiring for the solenoid? I can't seem to find anything covering this in my haynes manual. Is it a fuse I should pull or do I need to undo covers and whatnot?
Thanks,
Nate
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Double J
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Mar 17, 2008, 1:29 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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As your looking at the transaxle from the front..you should see a 4 wire connector...either a blue one or a black one depending on your vin/model...
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huxley
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Mar 31, 2008, 1:17 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Ok I've been too embarrassed to admit this and I've scoured the internet for possible pictures-but I still don't know which one I need to unplug. I see connectors and I'm not sure which one controls this solenoid...
As I have the hood up and I'm looking at the quad ohc 2.3 liter engine compartment on this 1992 grand am...where should my hand go?
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Loren
Anonymous Poster
Mar 31, 2008, 1:29 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Leaning over the LF fender, look down. It should be just to the rear side of the trans, but on top.
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huxley
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Apr 9, 2008, 9:44 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Alright what do you make of this...
I *think* I found the connector you were talking about but I wasn't 100% on it so I didn't pull it. I had stayed off the highway for a little over a week at this point. In the meantime, I added seafoam to the gastank and a very little bit to the crankcase and then I changed the oil to Mobil 1 because I was getting condensation in the crankcase (no longer thankfully).
I decided to just go on the highway again and deal with it stalling when I slowed and go from there...but it never happened. I've taken a number of long trips and it hasn't happened at all. Not once. Not that I'm complaining but it's just odd! Should I replace the part anyway? I'm planning on driving from NY to Florida this June so I want to make sure the car is solid but I've taken 200 mile + trips without a hiccup.
You think I can get away with just changing the transmission fluid and filter and going from there? Did the solenoid finally "wake up" after sitting for so long?
Weird...
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 9, 2008, 10:43 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Hi again!
Didn't re-read all from the start but have the idea. Seems like this car is doing well and yes I think the TCC just needed some time for attitude adjustment if you will. Funky things happen with long term non use as you know.
I would just change the ATF fluid and filter. IMO, just the fluid that comes out with the pan removal and use synthetic compatible ATF which with just the pan and gasket is not the total fluid change but good for it none the less.
Better time of year now and if you have some time, really wash out the pan and I like to use (tm) Permatex sealer and gasket maker, to hold gasket in place and let dry real well. Just a smear of the stuff - it's really just to stick it in place and I put some on both sides of gasket - most gaskets will hold down to pan to dry and set with some of the bolts that attach it - push them up thru and they are supposed to get stuck a little in smaller holes of the gasket. Then when dry I like to just smear some ATF so the gasket just will never stick hard to trans when removed again for whatever reason. Don't overtighten pan bolts but rather go back and retorque them after it's been warmed up a few times - firm screwdriver tight is enough - overtightening can bend pans and cause leaks!
Have a great trip. Bring some stuff with you and be ready to unplug that TCC if it does cause troubles on the way.
Funny: June in FLA - bring stuff to clean bugs off your windshield !!
T
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Charlesmac
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Apr 10, 2008, 4:18 AM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Seems like this problem is solved, but wanted to throw in two cents, there is also a switch on the brake pedal that some time goes bad or gets out of adjustment, and wont release the tcc when comeing to a stop. might want to check it also. good luck
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huxley
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Apr 10, 2008, 8:19 AM
Post #12 of 20
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Hey Tom and Charles,
Tom-You know, I was actually wondering that...how DO you do a total fluid change? Are we talking equipment that costs more than the car or is there someway I can do this myself? If you have the time and inclination to let me know I'd appreciate it. Otherwise don't worry about it, I'll just be stopping in here real quick before I drop the pan so I can bring myself through it mentally before I start screwing around and have you or someone correct me if needed.
Charles-I am aware of the brake switch thing and every so often the brake pedal will move a little after you would think it would have stopped...like it will lose and then catch again. I think this might be something to do with air in the lines or what have you but they're ABS and I'm afraid to bleed them myself because I've heard ABS brakes are a royal pain to do at home. Could it be that switch you're referring to? How can I check it and adjust or replace if necessary? I have a haynes manual but couldn't seem to find the info in there-probably just looking in the wrong place.
Thanks guys,
Nate
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 10, 2008, 9:44 AM
Post #13 of 20
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92 Grand Am Auto - total ATF fluid change
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Ok: There are a few approaches - I don't have the equipment myself for flushing and some other neat stuff to do a total change and never did. Let's see what others suggest here also or start a new thread on just this.
What I'm thinking for this cars specifically:
1. This is just nice prevention and not trying to correct a problem - right? The plain pan drop and filter change gets perhaps 1/3 of the total fluid out and if all looks well I just trust the new filter helps the overall then mixed new and old but looking ok fluid. If it doesn't look ok (my opinion) you are delaying an inevitable overhaul.
2. This may and some have drain plugs on torque converter which gets out the rest of the lion's share of fluid. Don't know if this has one.
3. There are flush machines that I won't allow with older cars that don't have a problem - again just my opinion.
4. There's a way to put an in line machine in a trans cooling line and run it taking old fluid out and adding new till it's deemed all new. I'd consider that and just take it out for that job for myself as it couldn't be worth it (owning machine) for me just now and then (retired) to do this so rarely.
5. For my own vehicles and others if they wish, I add a drain plug (most pans don't have them) and change just what comes out a couple times along their life and have done well with that. At some point I'll just pro-actively overhaul a trans for a vehicle I intend to marry!
Note on trans and ATF: Auto trans is an hydraulic machine with clutches and bands that will wear over miles and type of use. Fluid is highly detergent and should carry particles to filter. A very important property is anti-foaming as bubbles don't work well with hydraulic anythings. ATF and trans are not exposed to fuel and combustion issues but do deal with heat - a big enemy of oils and can cause early failures. Rough service or use it's advisable to add a trans fluid cooler.
See what others suggest and decide what's best for you with this particular car..........
T
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huxley
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Apr 10, 2008, 3:30 PM
Post #14 of 20
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Re: 92 Grand Am Auto - total ATF fluid change
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Hey Tom,
1. For the most part yeah, and because it sat for so long. Every so often when the car downshifts into first I feel it a little more than I think I should but that could just be me being hypersensitive and not being used to this car yet. Ounce of prevention, pound of cure-that's the overall purpose summed up right there. Plus I'd like to learn how to do this so I can do it more often to lengthen the life of the trans.
2. I haven't seen anything but I'm wholly unfamiliar with car transmissions. I'll take a peek.
3. Flush machines? I copy and pasted from a website below, I hope it's not that machine you're speaking of?
4. I think this might be the product you're referring to which I had heard about before...let me know, it seems like a pretty good deal.
5. I wouldn't mind overhauling this transmission since I plan to marry this vehicle (creative way to put that Tom!) It only has 27,500 miles on it though and I wonder if it's really time yet? Would the age alone warrant such a thing? I really should post pictures of this beast sometime, you guys would be amazed, seriously. I've heard goods and bads regarding trans drain plugs. Living in such a salt infested area I feel as though this might wear faster and if I get that pump I wouldn't really have to do it as much...plus I have no garage for the vehicle unfortunately.
Here's that copy and paste...
"The following tip for avoiding the ATF mess when dropping the tranny pan was received from Scott Wheaton:
JC Whitney carries a 12 volt oil pump that allows you to remove 95% of the ATF from the tranny pan through the tranny dip-stick tube. The part number is 15JE5180Y and costs $18.99. The pump is normally used for removing oil from boat engines but works equally well for this application. Just put the supplied plastic hose down the tranny dip-stick tube, connect the pump's alligator clipped power cable to the battery and suck up the ATF into a suitable container through the outlet hose (approximately 5 minutes). Once drained, remove the tranny pan as described earlier, although this time without the ATF shower.
This avoids the big drain mess, and eliminates the need for a drain plug (another possible place for leaks to occur). This also works great for the once yearly ATF changes (you do this right?) without mess."
I think this car would fall under your definition of rough service because I take short somewhat frequent trips but on the other hand I am very good to it. I let it warm up for a good 15 seconds or so before I go anywhere to get the oil coated on the right parts, I don't race it around like some fool (ESPECIALLY since it wastes gas to do that!) and I'm very good with typical maintenance. Oil gets changed on that 3000 mark at the latest and it gets Mobil 1 full syn. So, I dunno. I was just going to change the fluid and make sure it gets done once a year from there. What are your thoughts? Should I go ahead and start another thread on this one?
Thanks,
Nate
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Guest
Anonymous Poster
chrishughees@yahoo.ca
Apr 10, 2008, 4:09 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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well well everybody knows everything when they are spending your money lol. well poor mileage is maybe the convertor because of sitting try removing it and replace with a straight pipe for a week see if your milage increases i just bought a chev truck that sat for 3 yrs and i found my milage was bad because the convertor was pluged. As for your stalling problem there are a few things #1 the plug might just be corrouded spray so WD40 in it and also the plug for the neutral safety switch if you have one,#2 change the fuel filter , # three you have a coil problem when it gets hot on the highway it will shut the car down as a safety feature, #4 you do not have to flush all the fluind from your trans just get a can of trans sealer and conditioner.
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DanD
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Apr 10, 2008, 4:38 PM
Post #16 of 20
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Guest:
Your reply has nothing to do with the transmission’s lock-up torque converter.
Please read the thread and understand it before you reply to it.
You may have some sound advice but with what you have just posted has diminished your creditability.
Please try and understand that people come here for professional advice.
If you can help you’re more then welcome but please check your responses.
Thank you.
Dan.
Canadian "EH"
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huxley
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Apr 10, 2008, 4:54 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Thank you Dan.
Nuff said.
-Nate
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Apr 10, 2008, 5:42 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Nate: I don't know who was thinking what with the post right after your?? Whatever, trans fluid change once a year should be fine. Look at the pan - it may not make that much of a mess on this. You are right about the drain plug being a place to leak or a weak spot if your run over something the breakes it there. Your call completely.
The mess: If you have a decent catch pan just jack up the car at an angle, loosen the pan bolts till it drips fast and it will pour out one side and most of the time you can control a mess. The pump for boat oil changing didn't show up at the site but I know what those are. Automotive engines in boats us a dipstick tube that goes to the bottom and with a pump at the top can drain 95% of oil. you would need a tiny tube to go inside the trans tube to pump out - I have one of those and it's no fun either. Better for assorted equipment, PS pumps - other things. When you catch the trans fluid in a clean drain pan ( I use types made to pour out ) I measure how much came out, put back all but a quart and then run and fine tune to the correct level from there. Remember increments on a trans dipstick are for "Warm" fluid and indicate 1/2 quart amounts NOT QUARTS! It may give you a "full hot" and "full cold" mark on the stick or a range - crosshatch area. Leave it a tad low and drive it around to warm up and check and then you are done with that.
With this car I'd start with just this job without attempting a total fluid change. You'll get the idea of how it works and forget the drain plug for now. I was doing that with oil drain plugs with gaskets and welding in the correct nut to/over a drilled hole in the pan - location selected as to get the most out and not be in the way of anything. It's a pest once and makes changing lots easier for the next times. The filter for these is inside and they are replaced in assorted ways in different transmissions. You'll have to look and box will probably have instructions as needed.
Tools and equipment: You have to decide what's practical for you. It's not worth spending hundreds on stuff for just your own use once a year. Costs must be defrayed by more use or getting paid for doing this stuff. I don't have and never had a tire machine, alignment equipment, brake lathe, trans jacks, lots of stuff but have agreements with other shops for things and I would do stuff they didn't want to do for them or just pay for it.
Also: The DIY thing is two things. It can save you money to do yourself AND money or not it's nice to do things YOUR way with the satifaction of it. I'm a fuss budget and like things perfect - parts cleaned, painted - stuff way beyond what is practical for busy shops.,
T
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Anonymous Poster
Apr 10, 2008, 5:56 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Busy busy
(This post was edited by way2old on Apr 10, 2008, 6:02 PM)
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Anonymous Poster
Apr 10, 2008, 6:06 PM
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Re: 1992 Pontiac Grand Am-Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid?
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Deleted..............
(This post was edited by JIM N on Apr 10, 2008, 6:14 PM)
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