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[ Pictures Added ] 1999 Subaru Legacy Harmonic Balancer Woodruff key tightened in wrong position so was never locked?
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cpr
New User
Jun 24, 2010, 8:08 PM
Post #1 of 9
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[ Pictures Added ] 1999 Subaru Legacy Harmonic Balancer Woodruff key tightened in wrong position so was never locked?
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1999 Subaru Legacy 30 Anniversary Edition Harmonic Balancer failure.
Hello I need help with a situation involving a Harmonic Balancer for a 1999 Subaru Legacy Sedan
About a month ago the head gaskets blew and had to be replaced. Yesterday while driving the power steering stopped and all of the lights on the dash lit up, then the radio died and then the brakes were almost gone but enough to glide to a gas station with a repair shop. Once there the car would no longer start.
The new mechanic after an inspection (originally had said that there was a separated or broken crank shaft) told me that I needed to replace the Harmonic Balancer and that the bolt was not put on correctly. He also said that the last mechanic was responsible since they had to put it on when the head gaskets were replaced.
I called the other mechanic and had them talk to each other. When I called back he told me that what the new mechanic was saying was impossible and that the bolt would have blown right away. Unfortunately the two mechanics are 45 miles apart so he cannot just go and look at the car of easily have it towed over to his shop.
The car was driven a few hundred miles before the failure and I do not know what to believe or if there is some sort of misunderstanding and both parties are correct.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
132,000 miles
All-wheel-drive,
2.5 liter DOHC fuel injected 4 cylinder
16 Valve boxer engine,
165 horsepower, 162 ft. torque
Power variable assist rack and pinion.
Anti-Lock Brakes,
heavy duty 10.7 dual caliper, vented front disk,
10.5" rear disk
(This post was edited by cpr on Jun 26, 2010, 10:15 AM)
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jun 24, 2010, 8:37 PM
Post #2 of 9
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Re: 1998 Subaru Legacy 30 Anniversary Edition Harmonic Balancer failure.
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Wow...A gas station with a repair shop....Now there is a dying breed you just don't see too much of anymore. which is really unfortunate but like anything, a sign of the times we're living in.....(Man I have a ton of great stories.....ok,ok enough nostalgia)
This is a tough situation and the key point is really vague, "the bolt was not put on correctly"
With any repair, when something comes apart or fails in an area that you worked, while it's not a guarantee it's tech error, it's pretty much "guilty until proven innocent". I may not agree with this, it's just the way it is.....
I think in this case it would come down to how the bolt came off. If it simply fell out, that would be a sign it wasn't tightened properly. If the head of the bolt broke off, that would've been a defective part.
I see where the repair is a month old but didn't catch how many miles have been put on the car since then........
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cpr
New User
Jun 24, 2010, 8:51 PM
Post #3 of 9
(5904 views)
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Re: 1998 Subaru Legacy 30 Anniversary Edition Harmonic Balancer failure.
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I am not sure exactly how many miles we have driven but I would estimate about four to five hundred. Went on a long drive the day before (187 miles as google flies) with no symptoms.
I realize the key point is kind of vague and hope to learn more tomorrow morning. When I hear all of this talk its like the school teachers in a peanuts cartoon but tomorrow I will write everything down since this is not being easily resolved as I hoped it was going to be.
Thank you for the insight
Namaste
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 24, 2010, 11:44 PM
Post #4 of 9
(5876 views)
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Re: 1998 Subaru Legacy 30 Anniversary Edition Harmonic Balancer failure.
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cpr: What is expected now to repair this? Just a new harmonic balancer and bolt? That and probably belt(s) as they would have tangled up and might have caused some other damage. Some engines would be hopelessly damaged if run without one and rather quickly.
This is going to be a rock and hard place IMO. It already needed head gaskets - WHY? Did you overheat this to cause that? Never say never but I don't know of this engine layout to be prone to blowing head gaskets as much as some.
Harmonic balancer is just as the word implies. It's there to balance out harmonic imbalance natural to an engine. The inside metal that bolts to crankshaft is isolated by rubber to the outside ring and absorbs the resonance. That rubber can fail even though rare to me it's happened. Heat or oil all over it can cause that and the forces of the "resonance" are remarkable and really could undo a properly tightened crank bolt - again IMO.
The question is and will remain a mystery as to whether the bolt wasn't properly tightened or the balancer failed so you'll want to have the balancer to see if it came apart. If it did and may not have, then it's lousy luck and could easily have been missed as defective OR somehow damaged in the course of removing it for the prior work.
In that this lasted a day it probably was properly installed but I can only guess. I'd have to do a research on the specific engine, rotation vs the threads of that bolt to see if the propensity is to loosen or to tighten by the resonant forces. Most engines take that into account OR use thread locking goo OR the item is pressed on as every harmonic balancer I've dealt with is and I haven't dealt with one on any Subaru by chance.
Seriously hard to say what happened or who's to blame. Should a tech have noticed a problem with the balancer? Not sure that would be so easy if it worked at all from the head gasket job. Should it always be replaced at a given interval or if removed - I really don't know on the particular engine but never heard of that.
If you are looking to get this remedied by the shop that did the head gasket work it's going to be tough,
T
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cpr
New User
Jun 25, 2010, 11:17 AM
Post #5 of 9
(5868 views)
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Re: 1999 Subaru Legacy 30 Anniversary Edition Harmonic Balancer failure.
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The mechanic is saying that the Woodruff key was tightened in the wrong position and was never locked. He said it was clear that it was a result from being put back on and was obvious when looked at.
The previous mechanic says that if it was done incorrectly that it is a very long bolt and that it would have came undone right away and not after being driven for a month but is willing to look at the old part to determine if they are at fault.
Thanks for all of your input it is greatly appreciated.
Namaste
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Sidom
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Jun 25, 2010, 8:37 PM
Post #6 of 9
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Re: 1999 Subaru Legacy 30 Anniversary Edition Harmonic Balancer failure.
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Well that's a good sign he is willing to look at it. Most shops if they caused the problem will step up and take care of it.
If it was a defective part or a bolt that broke then you can't really hang that on the shop.
This is where it's better to let the tech who can "see it" make the call........ I'm not sure what he meant by the "keyway (woodruff) installed in the wrong position", there is only one position for it. Even if he put the key in backwards (some can be installed backwards, others have no frt or back), he would've had trouble getting the balancer on, but once it was on, if the keyway didn't fall out it would've held....
The bottomline for me would be, either show me a defective part or explain to me a very convincing theory on how a part that was removed & installed came off in such a short amount of time......
Just a quick look from the shop owners side. He has to judge what type of customer he is dealing with. We won't even go into the bad ones because this isn't the case here (but he has to deal with those as well). Sometimes when work is performed on cars, other areas fail thur no fault of the tech (sometimes right there in the shop). The customers stand point is, the car was fine, I never had this problem before until you worked on it. Normally it can be logically explained and shown that it was just something else that fail but it usually never goes over well and more times than not, the dishonest mechanic card is played. That is probably where he is at right now, trying to figure out "what happened?" Was there a defective part? Did something break? Has someone else worked on this car since?
If it's obvious one way or the other, he will probably do the right thing....
My lastest......An 05 F150 came in for a diag & lof AND window diag..... The lady stopped at B/K for coffee on the way to the shop & regulator cable broke while she was in the drive thru and the window fell into the door. The SA & I argured for 10 minutes about who the lucky one was....My theory was he was the lucky one....that cable would've broke on me if she hadn't of stopped & he would've got his azz chewed out bigtime..... His theory was, I was lucky because I would've been doing the motor & regulator for free...... at the end we agreed we were both lucky.......Not lucky she had a problem, lucky her problem didn't happen in our care.........
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 26, 2010, 11:02 AM
Post #8 of 9
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Re: [ Pictures added ] Re: 1999 Subaru Legacy Harmonic Balancer
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Thank You for coming back with what was found and now I tend to agree. I'm still surprised it made it very far at all. Great that this could be fixed for just $300 -- I was real worried about that causing a real nightmare.
I'll see if just one pic will direct post for archives,
Thanks,
T
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Sidom
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Jun 26, 2010, 6:37 PM
Post #9 of 9
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Re: [ Pictures added ] Re: 1999 Subaru Legacy Harmonic Balancer
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Thx 4 letting us know the outcome....
They say a picture is worth a 1000 words.....
I won't go on & on...... I'll just leave it at
"Wow....There's really not a lot you can say about that....it's pretty obvious"
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