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Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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pontiac2002
New User
Jun 17, 2023, 1:35 AM
Post #1 of 8
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Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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[specs]
02 pontiac bonnevile supercharged
3.8L 6cyl
130k miles [/end specs]
Hi, just got an engine code about my exhaust (P0420), took it to my mechanic he said it's probably the exhaust and bad cat, not the 02 sensors. I'm frustrated I just had it replaced 2.5 years ago. The warranty only covers 2 years. It's welded underneath the car, and renewal is in a couple of months I have to do smog this year. I read online cats can last up to 10 years or the life of the vehicle so I don't get why I have to replace it so soon. It cost $500 including labor but now it went up to almost $700.
My mechanic says it's because I put 89 (midgrade) fuel in there not the 91-octane so it clogged up the system. I tried adding cataclean since the code just showed up, but it didn't clear the code. Registration deadline is 2 months so it's around the corner. I was thinking maybe try fuel injector cleaner, fuel system cleaner, or sea foam. I saw a video online put 1 gallon lacquer thinner in half a tank of gas but not sure if I'll risk it yet.
Can using mid-grade fuel really ruin a cat? I thought they were designed to handle them. Just the timing of the pistons would be off or something. (I didn't realize 91 was req'd until recently).
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 17, 2023, 3:04 AM
Post #2 of 8
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Re: Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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Arggh! Seems this tech is pretty sure so I'll go with that.
OE cats probably not available so yes new would be welded in.
They can last ages or be "killed" in this case perhaps the later.
I may just need just was the tech said - do it all over again.
Finding the source reason IMO of octane rating use alone doubt can be proven if OE called for a certain rating and you didn't use it I plead IDK the fuel quality isn't in octane rating could be all things how it was made, labeled as what, delivered, stored and sold.
In short if you doubt that diagnosis seek another opinion I know it's costly.
Unsure of the lies about fuel the cost is a combo of percent of crude you need and additives to create the knock rating cost bucks so do the metals of converters there's incentive to use the minimum to pass all that before you buy it!
I suspect you are stuck to just re-do it but may seek other opinions if there's anything that could revive it - no fake tricks something that really works sorry they don't last as expected others go ages longer than 10 years, double, triple that without issues luck or a quality problem now IDK,
Tom
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 17, 2023, 4:01 AM
Post #3 of 8
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Re: Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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It is possible to destroy a converter with a poorly running engine but I don't believe lower octane fuel can do that. They would have to produce proof of that being the cause.
All that aside, they are required to warranty the Converter for 5 years/50,000 miles by Federal law.
COLORADO (Effective 1/1/2021) AND CALIFORNIA (Effective 1/1/2009)
CARB-compliant aftermarket replacement converters are required for any vehicle operated in these states.
COLORADO- AND CALIFORNIA-COMPLIANT INSTALLATION REQUIREMENTS
Effective January 1, 2021 for Colorado and January 1, 2009 for California, new aftermarket catalytic converters sold or installed in Colorado or California must meet the following requirements:
Be labeled or tagged with a CARB EO (Executive Order) number indicating the converter complies with California’s requirements for aftermarket converters.
Be installed only on applications listed in the manufacturer’s Vehicle Application Catalog and per CARB’s Installation Guidelines.
Be warranted for 5 years/50,000 miles, and cover the cost of parts and labor.
Be compatible with OBD catalyst monitors. This includes making sure converters won't cause false catalyst codes, while also making sure that the OBD system will continue to set a catalyst fault code if the aftermarket converter fails.
NOTE: CARB permits any aftermarket converter to be installed on vehicles older than 5 years and for which the OE emission warranty has expired.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 17, 2023, 4:38 AM
Post #4 of 8
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Re: Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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Excellent HT!
Tom
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pontiac2002
New User
Jun 19, 2023, 12:07 PM
Post #5 of 8
(1492 views)
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Re: Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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Thanks Hammer Time. I actually called the place that installed my cat and they said warranty is for 2 years and all they do is exhaust so something fishy going on there. I'd think my mechanic would be aware of that law too, and I just google-searched looks like it's legit.
Anyways, I drove it for about a week using 91-octane fuel and the sensor light went off a couple days ago. Got it smog checked this morning and it passed. Either the fuel cleaned the cat, or the cataclean took a couple days longer to get rid of the carbon deposits inside. Either way I'm happy and hopefully using the 91 will keep it good, but the cataclean says you need to use about 2x/yr.
Thanks!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 19, 2023, 12:52 PM
Post #6 of 8
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Re: Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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You won't know what is wrong with CAT without cutting it open IMO.
Maybe only lower octane use it could knock (unheard) by you or sensor tiny particles of ?? coated it just too much?
It passed I'd forget it for now any more tricks would be carbon problems + doubt that.
Just good luck. I worry about plain qualities of fuel just anyway that it is what it says?
Tom
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pontiac2002
New User
Jun 21, 2023, 12:44 AM
Post #7 of 8
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Re: Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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@Tom Leaf, my mechanic was the one who said using less than 91 was the culprit. I've had him for 5 years he's always done me right. I read about the "knock" issue too. I remember when I first got it I think I met some chick at the DMV who said she had the same exact car and she said 89 would be sufficient. So I've been using 89 since I've owned it (approx 5 years) up until this code went off and I took premium only on the fuel door seriously.
Come to think of it that may have been the issue with other problems I've had recently. Last year (winter '21) I replaced practically the entire fuel system - spark plugs, wires, coil packs. And over the summer ('22) I had to replace the transmission. So there's really no way of knowing if it was that (wrong fuel), or just that it's an old car. I'd think if wrong fuel was an issue it would cause serious problems immediately. But I passed smog so that was the immediate issue. I'm going to stick to 91 and hope that it didn't cause any permanent damage to my car.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 21, 2023, 1:21 AM
Post #8 of 8
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Re: Bad Cat Catalyst System Below Efficiency Old GM
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You got away with it for 5 years is a long time.
Basics if it was knocking/pinging AND supercharger was faking a high compression engine long gone before this era a way to get power "force feeding it" air/fuel mixture.
Damage was the knock could, would make pock marks on piston tops up to a hole in them OMG that's ages ago.
If you didn't drive it hard it would be fine. Sensors by this year should override it doing that not sure they can?
IDK - converters last if ever good and not overwhelmed with unburned fuel the usual cause of killing one.
Aftermarket? Who knows what's in them the metals are worth a fortune is why stealing them is a problem!
The cleaners IMO an idea to burn off carbon so does a good long drive plain high load of going too fast (where ok and safe to do so) but not if covered in metal bits.
REAL old, leaded fuel was a metal liquified to raise octane rating cheap rather than make fuel from a higher grade.
That was a metal did ruin converters so would metal bits off pistons if so scope inside thru plug holes may see it?
Then pay up or have the info how to proceed with a fix so you don't have to stare at a light (if staying on) if it's driving totally well no other issues IMO isn't really harming anything any extra pollution is so small bet couldn't be measured?? Tom
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