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fuel pump failure no power from switch
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rnorew
User
Jun 16, 2013, 4:16 PM
Post #1 of 34
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fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Car is 1988 lincoln towncar 5.0 L
Car stalled while driving. Removed fuel filter and tested fuel pump to see if fuel was pumping before replacing with new filter. No gas being pumped. Thought that issue was either the fuel pump relay or the pump. Replaced relay and pump but still no fuel being pumped. No voltage was detected at the fuel pump. So went up stream to pump relay and found that ecc relay and fuel pump relay were working. While testing relay realized that 12 volts that is supposed to come from ignition switch was not there. I do not have ignition switch diagram to test switch. Is there a diagram that shows what pin on ignition switch should provide power to fuel relay? IS there a test for the ignition switch? Do not want to replace unless prove that it is failed. IS there anything like a fusable link between the switch and the relay?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 16, 2013, 4:47 PM
Post #2 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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There's an inertia switch in the trunk. Look for red button and see if it popped. Push to reset and see if power is going thru it or continuity thru it. Not common but can fail or even a hard bump might trip it,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 16, 2013, 5:04 PM
Post #3 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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The fuel pump relay is powered by the EEC relay, not the ignition switch.
Where are you not finding power? What color wire?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 16, 2013, 5:05 PM)
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rnorew
User
Jun 16, 2013, 5:22 PM
Post #4 of 34
(5619 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Sorry I forgot to mention that I looked at that switch and it was not tripped. I tried resetting anyway but nothing changed.
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rnorew
User
Jun 16, 2013, 5:28 PM
Post #5 of 34
(5614 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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I used this link to test the EEC and pump relay link deleted ......... not allowed. The color of the wire is yellow and referred to in this description as circuit 4. there are three wires in the relay on one row and a two in the other row. Only one of those two pins have a wire attached. that is the wire that I expect to get 12 volts when I turn the key to run position. If this description os wrong can you point me to a correct description - thanks
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 16, 2013, 5:33 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 16, 2013, 5:38 PM
Post #6 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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You are not allowed to post links here other than to your own pictures or videos.
Those instructions are all wrong.
That yellow wire goes to a fusible link, probably attached to the starter solenoid at the battery and should be powered at all times.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Jun 16, 2013, 5:45 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 16, 2013, 5:42 PM
Post #7 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 16, 2013, 5:55 PM
Post #8 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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rnorew
User
Jun 16, 2013, 6:11 PM
Post #9 of 34
(5579 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Thanks Sorry will not post links any more. Is there a way to find out if a fusable link has failed? Will it be melted or how do you test them besides stripping the wire?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 16, 2013, 6:12 PM
Post #10 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Pull on it and see if it stretches.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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rnorew
User
Jun 16, 2013, 7:26 PM
Post #11 of 34
(5554 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Thanks for the help thus far. I do not see any of the fusable linkes that are clearly failed and none seem to streach. I cannot read the wiring diagram. Everything is too small. I am going to stop at an auto part tomorrow to see if they have a tool to test the fusable links.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 16, 2013, 7:31 PM
Post #12 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Tool to check fusible links? It's called a test light.
If you don't have power on the yellow wire, it has to be burnt out or disconnected. It's a straight shot from there to the power source which is likely the solenoid. It will be a blue link.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 17, 2013, 1:09 AM
Post #13 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Sorry I forgot to mention that I looked at that switch and it was not tripped. I tried resetting anyway but nothing changed.
Before you start jumping everything did you check if power gets to the switch in trunk at all? That should be the last stop before powering the pump. Tripped or not it's old enough, have owned zillions of the exact car and year myself and do now, the common problem with the panthers (body of this car) was plain relay up front, driver's side fender skirt underhood covered by a plastic skirt you said you replaced OR the plug to those relays.
Haven't had one blow in about 15 years but carry a universal spare in now down to two of these. Not the point but all these seemed to have the same issues. Unless accident history was like I said. Relays and the plugs to them.
It's plenty old enough for all kinds of problems in the mix. Rust like anything killed all but one of perhaps hundreds. Those relays and the plugs-ins as said either lasted forever or just inexplicably go out on their own with unknown provocation.
Watch out for all diagrams as a few especially Town Cars were different and the Crown Vics with assorted packages for municipal use.
All TCs of then were made at the exact same assembly plant, Wixom, MI. Other "panthers" could be from anywhere else.
What toys does this have? What model stated. There are four common ones........ For rental marked under trunk lid, Executive no markings, Signature, Cartier.
You still have one so it could be an odd ball not listed. Have one right now with in 1988 $$ $16,000 bucks of options not all listed anywhere custom ordered new - they did that. If one of those some you'll have to wire chase as I've never found published data on some.
My point is watch out for published data if this is a rare order car. There's an early and late change mid year of exactly 1988! You need to know the build month marked on door jam and with yellow stamp underhood in paint (not a sticker) on radiator support.
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Fusible links. They are marked greatly as shown above. Test light should be enough as HT mentioned.
Right now hope this isn't a special order car or by now altered too much over the years frustrating anything published,
T
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rnorew
User
Jun 17, 2013, 5:20 PM
Post #14 of 34
(5500 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Hammer my confusion is there is a yellow wire that connects to the relay connector at one end. It then goes into a wiring harness. Out of the other endof the wiring harness there are three yelow wires that all go through a dark blue fusible link to the solonoid on the fender. Each of those fusible links has thick insulation on both ends of the link. I can confirm that there is power at the solonoid. I am not sure which of the three wires would be the source at the solonoid. Two of the wires are 16 guage links and 1 is a 18 guage link. By looking at the wire going into the relay connector, I would guess it is 16 guage so it should be one of the two 16 guage links. Can I assume that the yellow wire at one end of the wiring harness will come out of the wiring harness as a yellow wire of the same guage. I would like to see if there is power on the yellow wire between the fusible link and the relay connector but my voltmeter cannot pierce the insulation. IN order to use a test light do you pierce the insulation with a pin or something allowing you to use a test light over the fusible link? Goes your test light have a sharp lead that will pierce the insulation of the yellow wire? These fusible links have no metal that can be used for a test light.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 17, 2013, 5:27 PM
Post #15 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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The link itself is only a few inches long and you should be able to pierce the wire after the fusible portion where it leaves the solenoid. If you don't know which one, just check them all. If they all check good, then that wire has to be broken somewhere in between.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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rnorew
User
Jun 19, 2013, 4:43 PM
Post #16 of 34
(5474 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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I tested the switch inthe trunk and it was fine. I eventually found that is a connector onthe solonoid that had two wires.one of those two wires had a fusible link that had two outputs. The wire that ran from the connector itself to the link that had two outputs had melted. Once i crimped that back together I had power at the pump relay.
I have not put everything back together yet but I have not doubt that it will work. I also went to the junk yard to get that section of wire that burnt.
Thaks you so very much for the help - I was really thankful that you answered my posts. thanks again. It might take a week or so but I wil get back on after I get everything put back together and running.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 19, 2013, 5:07 PM
Post #17 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Glad to hear you found the problem.
I will leave the question open for the time being but we eventually want to lock it as fixed to keep the spammers out.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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rnorew
User
Jun 25, 2013, 6:50 PM
Post #18 of 34
(5435 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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I finally have everything put back together and I drive it to work today (10 miles each way. I put 5 gallons in after I installed everything and put in 10 more gallons on the way to work. The car worked fine going to work. On the way home( about 4 miles form work the car hesitated and died again. exact same symptoms. While I was waiting for AAA I looked at the wire at the solonoid and that was not burnt. I am going to use my meter to test the power at the relay again and the gas pressure but I suspect that the pump died again. Is that at all normal?
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 25, 2013, 6:53 PM
Post #19 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Not surprising. Something burned the link out in the first place.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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rnorew
User
Jul 5, 2013, 2:23 PM
Post #20 of 34
(5394 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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I pulled the pump again and this time I used a seperate battery and tested the pump and it worked. I tried it on the hot lead of the solonoid and it did not work. Since I had to cut three wires to replace the connector at the solonoid that had burnt, I unsoldered the wire that does not go to the pump but connects to the same fusible link as the pump and now I can hear the pump run when I turn the key so there is a short in the circuit that shares the fusible link with the pump circuit. I went to a ford dealer to see if I can find out what is on that circuit and they told me that they have no information about cars that old. DO any of you folks have access to such information.
Let me try to be summarize. I have a connector at the solonoid that has two wires that join at the connector of the solonoid. One wire is a smaller bark blue or black and has a fusible link. The other wire is much heavier dlack wire and enters a fusible link and out of that link are two yellow wires, one large that runs to the pump relay and the other a little smaller. This is the wire that has a short smewhere in the circuit. Does anyone have a wiring diagram that will tell me where the elements of that circuit might be and what they might be. One of the elements must have had an intermittent short that now seems to be more solid. I don't want to move too many wires for fear that the wire is bare and is hitting the frame and if I move it too much it will work again for a short while.
If I can tell you any more please let me know. Thanks again
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 5, 2013, 2:53 PM
Post #21 of 34
(5389 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Can you identify it on the picture DS supplied earlier?
Our diagrams are set up to find from the other end of the circuit.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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rnorew
User
Jul 7, 2013, 1:54 PM
Post #22 of 34
(5365 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Looking at the diagram links D&K look to be from the same connector so I would think that it is either D or K. There is only one connector that has more than one wire coming from the connector.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jul 7, 2013, 2:03 PM
Post #23 of 34
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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See if this helps
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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rnorew
User
Jul 7, 2013, 3:38 PM
Post #24 of 34
(5348 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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This helps a lot. It looks like link K is the two yellow wires off the connector and link D is the black wire off that same connector. There is nothing wrong with the link D circuit. Do you have any details as to what is in the speed Control? That should have the fuel pump on one of those two wires and something else on the other. When the yellow wire connects to a component will the color of the wire change? I am not real familiar with how auto companies do their wiring.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jul 7, 2013, 3:46 PM
Post #25 of 34
(5342 views)
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Re: fuel pump failure no power from switch
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Here is the cruise control wiring
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