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Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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Joey3754
Novice
Jan 19, 2010, 9:27 AM
Post #1 of 12
(9624 views)
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Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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My 98 windstar 3.8 was hydro-locked one morning when I tried to start it. The previous day I drove it to the store and back and experience no problems. I drove about 8 miles round trip. Never noticed it over heating. I removed the spark plugs to see if I could rotate the crank without any compression, upon removing the center plug on the back side, water poured out. Now the motor turns over fine. Normally I would think I have a blown head gasket, but the water was clear. My radiator is still full of antifreeze and there is no sign of water in my oil. Any Ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 19, 2010, 9:59 AM
Post #2 of 12
(9616 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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WOW! Never heard of that on a Windstar short of driving thru deep water or hitting puddles way too hard and then it would usually break something or ruin the engine right away. IMO, unless there was something done like washing the engine too hard, deep water or the puddle thing that doesn't add up it's probably antifreeze (some is clear) and it may have quit the issue for a while but if so it won't heal on its own and will return sometime.
If in cylinder you would normally see excessive white exhaust if while driving if this is a gasket issue??
T
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Joey3754
Novice
Jan 19, 2010, 10:39 AM
Post #3 of 12
(9611 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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My antifreeze is green/yellow . It was raining the night that this happened how could water get into the intake? I opened the airbox this morning and its dry inside. Prior to this the van has run great. No smoke and like I said there has been no use of any fluids. They are all topped off. I guess i'll put the spark plugs back in and see if it runs. Thanks for any additional information anyone can give me.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 19, 2010, 11:30 AM
Post #4 of 12
(9607 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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Water shouldn't get into intake so I'm awaiting someone to explain how it's possible too!
T
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Joey3754
Novice
Jan 20, 2010, 4:18 PM
Post #5 of 12
(9595 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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Update- Don't know why it looked clear but water in cylinder had to be antifreeze. I put the spark plugs back in today and now I have a stanley steamer van. If I found a complete motor from a wrecked van, which would be easier and more cost effective, replacing the head gaskets or swapping the motor... Take into consideration that I don't have a car lift in my garage and the fact that the motor needs to drop out the bottom. thanks for your time!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 20, 2010, 5:35 PM
Post #6 of 12
(9591 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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Thanks for the update. That sure had me wondering. Yes - the antifreeze needs more than a little to show it's color as in a puddle under vehicle is hard to tell on most surfaces if just a little.
Good luck with the swap. Do the tune up before it goes in as if I recall the back spark plugs are hell!
T
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jan 21, 2010, 9:45 AM
Post #7 of 12
(9582 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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Yes, those spark plugs are hell. These motors were known for defective head gaskets that let loose fast, as in the problem you are experiencing. Like you said, the motor has to come out the bottom. I did the exact year and engine last winter and even with a hoist it was evil to a whole new degree. On the downside, any used motor you get will be prone to this problem. Your best bet would be to put a used engine on a stand and get a rebuilder gasket set. Do all the gaskets and seals out of chassis where you can work with it easily. While you're there, change the pump seal on the transmission to head off that issue in the future. Your other option is to do the head gaskets in chassis. It would be advisable to send your heads to a good machine shop to have them inspected. If the mating surface is warped or the head cracked they can tell you for a reasonable charge and will save you money in the long run. Be very careful with the exhaust bolts. They like to break. Liberal use of PB Blaster helps, but a torch is sometimes the only option and a new stud kit isn't expensive. Good luck.
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Joey3754
Novice
Jan 22, 2010, 5:07 PM
Post #8 of 12
(9569 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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I was told by a machine shop that a motor with over 100,000 miles isn't worth replacing the head gaskets. I actually have 166,000 miles. The oil was changed religiously. There is no smoke or any signs of lost compression prior to this gasket going. Would it seem unreasonable to think I could just have the heads checked, possible machined if necessary and put new gaskets in? Other than the recent downfall, I'd have no reason to think this motor had any more than 60,000 miles on it. The guy I bought it from last year had every gallon of gas he ever put in it documented! Obviously a Military Man! So what do you think?
Thanks for your time!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 22, 2010, 5:22 PM
Post #9 of 12
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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I don't buy that! Yes there can be things to do as miles get up there but to say over 100k is "Game Over" isn't in my book. Find another machine shop. Dang head needs professional checking for flaws and resurfacing only if needed and some won't,
T
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Sidom
Veteran
/ Moderator
Jan 22, 2010, 8:04 PM
Post #10 of 12
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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I'm surprised to hear a machine shop say that. A lot of repair shops don't like doing top end work on engines with high miles just for the fact if something goes out on the bottom end they are always blamed for it & expected to take care of it at n/c. Yours is right at the limit for the shop I'm at, depending on the conditions of the engine, maintenance, how it sounds and a few other factors would determine whether we did it or not.
Personally I think some of the bottom end problems comes down to prep.... If techs aren't real carefully when cleaning the block, junk can get down into the pan & create problems
The 3M roloc surface reconditioning discs are killers. They clean great but all that fiber get into the bottom end & will wipe out bearings
Gasket scrapers & and a green roloc bris disc it the best way to go. More expensive & slower but better in the long run...
From what you said about the engine it sounds like it's worth a shot. It's been well maintaind. You said it doesn't smoke, so I'll take that as it doesn't use much oil. I didn't see anywhere in your posts where you mentioned knocking, either while running or on cold start ups..... Once you get the heads off, inspect the cylinders real good for any werid wear patterns or scoring.........
I know I don't have to say to change the oil, filter & flush the cooling system afterwards....but I will anyway....
(This post was edited by Sidom on Jan 22, 2010, 8:06 PM)
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Joey3754
Novice
Jan 23, 2010, 9:05 AM
Post #11 of 12
(9554 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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Definitely no knock, This motor runs like new. I'm planning on getting the heads checked out and changing the timing chain and popping it all back together. Changing fluids of course!!!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 23, 2010, 11:33 AM
Post #12 of 12
(9551 views)
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Re: Water in Cylinder/ hydrolocked
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I'll still say this is likely just a gasket issue and when removed you may see the flaw. Sending the head out is to be checked for warpage usually from overheats not mentioned did you? If it was cared for as you said, and runs well, doing or just cleaning up the head knowing it's true while off via machine shop should be ok to do IMO. Great to do timing chain while things are all apart do stuff to buy you the next 100k on this. In fact do any routine stuff that's hard to get to while it's out as this is not access friendly,
T
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