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Strange compression issue, no start
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tal
Novice
Jan 31, 2014, 11:09 AM
Post #1 of 14
(1597 views)
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Strange compression issue, no start
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Hello,
I have a 98 2.2L chevy s10 that decided to not start one day and I found coolant leaking into the head and found the head gasket was bad so I changed it and put her together.
Still won't start, everything seems to be good spark and fuel-wise. Tried different coil packs and module. Tried starter fluid, doesn't start. Timing chain has never gone out of time. Installed new spark plugs and wires. New battery.
I decided to do a leak down test
On cyl #1 I get 60% leak and it's coming from the intake (tb) so I take the valve cover off and loosen the intake and exhaust rockers to close the valves the air stops coming from the intake but I still get a 60% leak. From there it's not easy to tell where the leak is coming from but it sounds like it's coming from the tester's air line where you connect it to the sparkplug line. Cover it up with my hand to keep it from leaking doesn't help. It's a brand new tester from harbor freight (i know, cheap, but normally their parts are good)
It still seems like there is a problem with the valve components since when I loosened them it stopped leaking there, at the same time it didn't solve the 60% leak.
I even have the timing marks on the crank and cam lined up so it's gotta be tdc compression right?
I know I can't leave the rockers this lose. I read somewhere that lash is not adjustable on the 2.2 and I don't really see a way either
I could have sworn I put each part back in the right order but I guess it's possible I didn't, would I need to buy new rockers and rods?
On cyl #4 I get 60% leak as well but no leak from the tb although I can hear faint sound from oil filler. Kind of hard to hear over the air coming from the tester.
I didn't bother with 2 and 3 yet.
I know the valves looked like they were seated when I had the head off, can't imagine what the problem is.
Any ideas?
(This post was edited by tallon on Jan 31, 2014, 11:13 AM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 31, 2014, 12:47 PM
Post #2 of 14
(1576 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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Have you actually done a compression check on this? Usually you would do a compression test first and if you find a low cylinder you do a leak down test. With the air leaking out of the tester's hose, you can't rely on the readings your getting.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Jan 31, 2014, 12:52 PM)
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kev2
Veteran
Jan 31, 2014, 1:46 PM
Post #3 of 14
(1566 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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I do not think the issue is compression.... You would have the classic backfire if a leaking valve were present,
1> you checked spark ? both coils 1and 4, and 2and 3 ?
2> Fuel pressure is ? psi ?
3> the injectors are pulsing ? noid light makes this easy
4> there are NO codes - something that might help
5> I understand your leak down concern - what is the compression reading going up to, all 4 ? readings...
those above are BASIC Let us get up to speed on your engine -
you reused the cylinder head ? not a new/recon?
Pushrods were marked and reinstalled on same location?- I do not think an issue BUT I will ask it.
Pushrods are seated into the lifter- Rocker arms are seated with notch in grove -
- you said you loosened ALL? the pushrods- then tightened them to snug + 1/2 turn?
If above bullets )1-5) do not result in a possiable issue this is where I would then dbl check
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tal
Novice
Jan 31, 2014, 3:57 PM
Post #4 of 14
(1553 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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I figured if I was going to buy one or the other it was going to be a leakdown tester but I agree I should have a compression test
@kev2 actually after several seconds of cranking it does want to backfire out of the tb especially if I spray something in manually. One time flames shot out. I'm not sure if this condition is still present after messing with everything so much.
1> All 4 plugs do spark and my thought was it might be a bad module but napa let me borrow their module and coils and no difference.
2> 45psi, maybe a little low but too low? It holds pressure while cranking but drops to 0 after a few seconds of not cranking. no fuel on fpr vacuum line so that looks good.
3> don't know much about that
4> 55-60psi in 1 and 4 I have yet to try 2 and 3 I wanted to keep the timing marks lined up, on monday I'll check those
Same old head, didn't change any major parts except bots and gaskets
I laid the rods and rockers down in a way I'd remember them but no I didn't label them, my first head job lol
They seem seated as well as they can be
I only loosened #1 intake to see if the valve would close and it did but it's too loose to keep it that way. Otherwise I torque them to the recommended 22 ft lbs I believe.
Thanks
(This post was edited by tallon on Jan 31, 2014, 3:58 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jan 31, 2014, 4:59 PM
Post #5 of 14
(1550 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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So, you changed a head gasket without ever having the surface of the head planed or even checked? That was a big mistake.
You need to take a compression test on this thing ASAP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kev2
Veteran
Feb 1, 2014, 8:19 AM
Post #6 of 14
(1538 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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I am in agreement with HT - not checking the head was a missed step, you need to determine why it origionally failed to correct that.
A plan is needed to get ths solved -
....... A compression check,
.... .......you will need to readjust ALL valves - follow procedures for new lifters- plugs out fuel disabled crank engine etc.
.......... If that does not identify a problem- disassemble -
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tal
Novice
Feb 1, 2014, 3:51 PM
Post #7 of 14
(1530 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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Oh I just did a gasket change because it cost $80 but if anything else is majorly wrong with the engine I'm just scrapping it. Just wanted a beat up truck to go to work and back didn't want to spend a lot trying to fix it. It really is beat up lol sadly I only got a couple weeks out of it...
The head gasket was a mess, it seemed obvious that it was the only problem, I guess I was very unlucky thinking that but yes inexperienced as well.
It does seem odd to me that the pushrod and rocker would slightly open the valve at tdc-compression, though...
Edit: I went ahead and ordered a compression tester
(This post was edited by tallon on Feb 1, 2014, 4:14 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 1, 2014, 4:27 PM
Post #8 of 14
(1521 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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The same heat that caused the gasket to fail will also warp the head so doing the job the way you did pretty much makes the whole job worthless.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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kev2
Veteran
Feb 1, 2014, 4:43 PM
Post #9 of 14
(1519 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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- are you saying - loosiniing all the valves and there is NO* compression losss ?
that would point at the valve train - and the points already raised,
* a minimal but acceptable
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tal
Novice
Feb 3, 2014, 10:17 AM
Post #10 of 14
(1509 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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How much does it all cost? Head and block resurface??
I don't see how everyone that does a head gasket job goes threw all of this. Kinda ruins the point of DIY when you still have to send the whole truck off to a shop. I don't think it was as obvious of a mistake as you make it sound lol people do it all the time with no problems
No I'm only talking about cyl #1 not other valves. It would seem like no compression loss. Much better at least. but I will confirm when I get the proper tool in the mail :\
(This post was edited by tallon on Feb 3, 2014, 10:19 AM)
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kev2
Veteran
Feb 3, 2014, 10:34 AM
Post #11 of 14
(1503 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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slow down relax... helping out online is not the fastest - trying to convey knowledge and experience, but we try.
A head gasket on this engine should be a DIYer.
As far as resurfacing - not always needed its the experience and observations that guide a decision. A straight edge is often all that is used.
I think you need to -
remove the pushrods (PR) , and plugs. check that all PR are same length- I am curious.
now do that leak down test - maybe a little oil to help the rings is in order.
the result will guide us.... the confusion over could of should of, will be the answers to the findings.
I think the issue is valve adjustment from your posting - we will see.
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tal
Novice
Feb 3, 2014, 1:13 PM
Post #13 of 14
(1495 views)
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Re: Strange compression issue, no start
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Thanks for the valuable input mr. mechanic, the career right under the brain surgeon.
For some reason you think you are in some line of work that requires you to be a genius. That couldn't be further from the truth. If you really think I could have forgotten the head bolts then I now start to question your intelligence. You didn't have to actually go to college to learn half the things you know including knowing what torque to yield means. If you are offended by my posts, well, I never asked for your help. Never said your name. There are a million other people that are more likely more knowledgeable in this field than you are, regardless of how experienced you are. And before you say "well with that attitude... blah blah blah." It's not me. I ALWAYS respect everyone who isn't a d*** with a stick up their ass just because they are a mechanic (lol)
I am not making assumptions I know what I see. And if they are so inexperienced as you claim yet they end up with a successful engine repair then obviously it doesn't take much experience. Take that stick out of there and you'll realize that. I've even seen head bolts reused with no problems (even though I wouldn't do that especially since they come with the gasket sets..)
I never said you had to haul the entire vehicle anywhere just to surface ONLY the head. Never once said that.
Oh and by the way the head isn't warped after all so now that you went on and on about that it was pretty pointless wasn't it. Not to mention a waste of time and money. There's a reason you are the only one to think that's what the problem is based on the cars actual symptoms. Try not to question everyone abilities just because you 'think' you are superior to them.
Well let's see. You said it's NOT a DIY... but kev2 says it is. I know it actually is. Hence the hundreds of people that buy the kits for personal use every day and are able to perform a successful repair. Not sure how much digging you have done on that, seemingly not much.
Have nothing against kev2 because he's actually respectful and provides solutions. I can see him going much further in any career than this tool.
(This post was edited by tallon on Feb 3, 2014, 1:27 PM)
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