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dustykc2007
User
Feb 3, 2008, 10:28 PM
Post #1 of 21
(1650 views)
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my 1988 Chevrolet Spectrum-Import (1.5L 2BBL SOHC) will start then immediately die like it's not getting fuel, I can spray WD-40 down the carburetor and it will run then once the WD-40 is burned up it'll die, I replaced the fuel filter & fuel pump and still am having problems. The car did sit for about 3 to 4 years before I acquired the vehicle from my girlfriend's grandfather. When I first got the vehicle I drove straight to the gas station and filled the vehicle up with high quality unleaded gas. The car did run for a while after that then one day just out of the blue it started acting up and wouldn't run at all. Could anyone shed some light on the subject for me please
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 4, 2008, 2:52 AM
Post #2 of 21
(1646 views)
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At a glance what I see is 3-4 years of sitting. New fuel filter and top off with new gas. Note: There pretty much any such thing as quality gas unless you go to an airport for it.
Note II: The additives in gas don't age well. 4 YO gas in a glass jar would look like salad dressing if not aggressively treated for storage. Storage while not completely empty or full brings moisture into the scene too.
What I think has happened is the new fuel filter bought you some time and clogged right up again.
I REALLY think this is the trouble at hand. What do you want to do? Dump all gas and start over or try to treat existing fuel and let it burn thru? Let me know which approach seems practical for you. Stock up on fuel filters as you probably will need a couple more before it can be stable,
T
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 4, 2008, 8:27 AM
Post #3 of 21
(1643 views)
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What would you recommend? I would think, dump the old gas, clean the fuel lines out, change the fuel filter, add some fuel system cleaner fill the tank bank up, and just go from there?? Would that be something to do?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 4, 2008, 9:39 AM
Post #4 of 21
(1640 views)
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Ok: To really dump out what's there you'd have to take the tank off and just that could be a problem. Hey - it's 20ish years old and I would probably add exactly Chevron's Techron fuel treatment and one container of a dry gas that clearly states it uses isopropyl alcohol not just an anti-freeze. Change out the fuel filter again - prime it up again like you have or use starter fluid and you know it can take a few tries to clear out the air from replacing the fuel filter.
You decide from there if you want to drive it and get that fuel all burned out of it or what. I'd bring stuff to replace the fuel filter and prime it again if it left me stranded. Eventually you should trust it and be done with this problem. If the problem doesn't correct or comes back right away the tank may have to come out. This was a guess at the problem and it still could be something else altogether. You'll have to try and report back what it does or doesn't
T
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 4, 2008, 12:53 PM
Post #5 of 21
(1635 views)
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Thank you very much, I really appreciate the help you gave me, I did get it running after I put some HEET in it and some chevron techron fuel treatment, but now it makes an occasional popping noise while idling and while you accelerate.Maybe the water burning?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 4, 2008, 5:35 PM
Post #6 of 21
(1629 views)
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I'm not so thrilled about the poping noise. Perhaps wet, cobwebs or in need of distrubutor cap, rotor and wires - the whole tune-up is no doubt called for. That noise is not water burning in the engine but more likely misfiring or a timing problem - check on that. Timing belt if rubber type is probably ready.
Is this car up and drivable now? How many miles on this too? About anything can be suspect on this at the age and the lack of use for so long. What's the overall condition of this car? Rust etc?
T
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 4, 2008, 5:50 PM
Post #7 of 21
(1628 views)
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I believe the car is drivable now, it has 66,936 original miles on it, the condition is decent for being a 20 yr old car, no major dents on the vehicle, only minor surface blemishes. It does have only one little rust spot on the left rear where someone dinged it. But other than that it is a decent looking little car, I almost gave up and sold the car, but I didn't for the fact that I knew with someone's expertise in the matter I'd get it figured out.If you want I can upload pics of the car.
Thanks
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 4, 2008, 6:08 PM
Post #8 of 21
(1627 views)
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Sounds like it's worth a few headaches to get it back in shape. Is this legal to drive on the road yet? Any history on when - not if the timing belt was done? I'd like to get this fuel burned out of it but if it's popping/backfire?? it isn't good to run it that way,
T
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 4, 2008, 8:43 PM
Post #9 of 21
(1624 views)
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I don't have it licensed in my name yet, but my neighbor let's me use a dealer tag from his car lot whenever I wanna test drive it on the street. I do have insurance for it already though. I don't know if you read it or not, but I did get the car for free so I guess I shouldn't complain for the work I'm gonna have to do to it to get it running.
(This post was edited by dustykc2007 on Feb 4, 2008, 8:44 PM)
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 4, 2008, 11:44 PM
Post #10 of 21
(1620 views)
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I just realized that I forgot to mention that I had to put the distributor back in the vehicle when I first got the car, because someone tried ripping parts off of it when it was sitting behind my girlfriend's grandfathers house, I only did what I knew how to do get the #1 cylinder up to TDC the mark on the crankshaft and on the timing cover lined up at 0 degrees, I aligned the distributor to the #1 wire on the cap and installed the distributor. Could I be off on the timing? I read on the autozone website that the timing is suppose to be at 10 degrees so I will double check to make sure it is correct, my g/f's grandfather said that the timing belt was replaced at around 45000 miles when they replaced the water pump.
(This post was edited by dustykc2007 on Feb 5, 2008, 12:09 AM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 5, 2008, 4:46 AM
Post #11 of 21
(1615 views)
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I can understand about the popping now. You must get the timing right on the mark. About impossible to "eye" it more than just get it close enough to run. The noise suggest it's too far advanced and if you just turn the dist the slightest amount at a time in the direction the rotor turns it should improve but you still want it right on the mark with a timing light.
My sympathies with the snow. I have a cool pic of one of mine that just looks like a sprouting mushroom from under a few feet of snow.
Brakes: It's almost certain that they will need attention. Just rust on the front rotors and who knows what the inside of the rear look like will need something. I recall a problem with calipers and the separate braket for the fronts on that car but I think it was called a Nova (toyota sold thru GM) I think. They be worth taking apart and lubing up again even if they look ok it would help keep them working better longer for you - and easier to deal with stuck bolts/drum to hub in rear if you can get that now if free before it's a nightmare. Don't quote me but I think the rear drums come of with an 8mm bolt x 1.25 thread carefully tightenein tightening them in to threaded holes while tapping and nudging them off - then clean up any mess and rustproof,
T
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 6, 2008, 5:00 AM
Post #12 of 21
(1603 views)
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I hope the weather is good there, it's not here. Tuesday night we had close to 6 inches of snow and freezing rain with sleet mixed in.. That's Missouri weather for ya, we was 75 Monday so I went out tinkered with the timing a little bit the popping stopped. But after I turned the car off went inside to eat, came back out and tried to start it the only way it'll start is by holding the gas pedal all the way to the floor. then when it finally did start it smoked black smoke like crazy and the smell of gas was just overwhelming. I am wondering if my next step is to either have the carburetor rebuilt or put a new one on. Any ideas? And I wanna thank you again for all the help and knowledge you've shared.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 6, 2008, 8:03 AM
Post #13 of 21
(1602 views)
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Ok: I had to go out and steal a pic of your carb to see how that one would work. It looks like a single choke butterfly with the spring (temp sensitive) in that black housing with three rivots that makes it move. That butterfly probably doesn't open when warmed up and thus overloads/floods with too much fuel. I'd begin with cleaning up (carb cleaner duh) all the moving parts that pivot and move. That plate should fully open and shut tight if you hold the throttle open a bit or it may not fully close. If it is just sticky that could end the problem right there. With it running a while you should be able to watch it open - give the throttle a tap and it would return to primary idle speed setting when it's off. There's a spring in the black housing that turns the choke and is temp senstive. They use one or more of engine coolant temp, exhaust gas temp, or an electric heater to warm up that spring. That housing needs to feel warm to hot to the touch after a while or we have to find out why not. I can't see this pic so well as to see if it has an electric heater but if it has a wire to it, it probably does.
What happens when you put your foot to the floor is it forces that open enough to defeat the choke effect. You can just hold it open if it won't and when warm the engine would run fine as if it didn't have it at all. HEY - DON'T BE DROPPING THINGS DOWN IN THERE TO PROP IT OPEN! You wouldn't be the first to croak a whole engine over that trick
This can be rebuilt as I just saw it was a pricey thing. It takes some know how to do that and if the only problem is the choke a kit probably won't have the failed parts so let's figure this out and burn that dang gas out of this thing. Got a few things here in order to proceed and I'm not surprised. Just hang in there - this can work out,
T
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 9, 2008, 3:00 PM
Post #14 of 21
(1586 views)
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Hey Tom it's been a few days since I've been on here, but I came down with strep throat, and I took a couple of sick days off of work so that gave me some time to mess around with the car, I took a can of carb cleaner and cleaned all moving parts that I could get to inside of the carburetor and on the outside as well. All moving parts are moving fine, and a guy I work with came over took the tank off and took it to have it cleaned out only cost me $40 bucks to have done since he was friends with the guy at the radiator repair place. The guy I work with removed the fuel filter and return line from the fuel pump, and sprayed a whole bunch of carb cleaner into all the lines and blew them out with air. We put the tank back on refilled it up with gas, put a new fuel filter on checked the P.S.I out of the fuel pump which checked normal.But Now I can't even touch the accelerator when starting I have to crank it over a few times then it'll fire right up, the black smoke went away though and when it does start if I push on the gas at all it'll die out immediately. The guy I work with said that " since the car sat so long that it's possible that all of the rubber in the carburetor could've dried out, especially the accelerator pump." Any suggestions on what to do next?
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 9, 2008, 4:17 PM
Post #15 of 21
(1583 views)
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Hope you're feeling better. Score with the tank and line clean out - deal! Allright - now we need to know if this choke sets itself when cold. If you don't touch anything with the engine cold, not running yet - take off air cleaner assy and choke plate should be part open. Then just touch the throttle at gas pedal or trip it from under hood pulling on the cable.
It should shut tight from there. If it does now just hold choke open with a finger and while looking down the carb in good light pump the gas with the cable or the pedal with a helper and you should see a squirt of gas or at least it would smell. (ALL THIS IS WITH IT OFF AND COLD!) If you see the squirt that should mean the accellerator pump is working. They are usually just a rubber diaphragm or plunger that should come with a carb kit but hold on for now.
I'm thinking it could be the choke doesn't set properly, or opens too far instantly when started, or it could be the accell pump. Let me know and we can think of what to do or check next.
Just that pump probably means rebuilding the carb yourself and might require tools and things that aren't practical for you just yet - let's wait for that for now.
____________________________
(EDIT -FOUND THIS PIC OF ACCEL PUMP FOR HOLLEY/WEBER IF THAT ONE ONLY AND WASN'T AVAIL WHERE I LOOKED) 
T
(edit again) That looks identical to ones used in 70s Ford carbs! - I may have one!)
(This post was edited by Tom Greenleaf on Feb 9, 2008, 4:35 PM)
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 10, 2008, 3:23 PM
Post #16 of 21
(1567 views)
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OK the car has been sitting for almost 12 hrs when I went out and checked the choke and it was part opened I did push the gas pedal down and the choke shut tight. I pulled the cable from under the hood and I didn't get a squirt or smell of gas until my brother cranked it over but it was a real faint smell of gas. He had to crank it over for at least 10 to 15 seconds before it would start then it died immediately. I bought a fuel pressure gauge awhile back and I hooked it up between the fuel pump and the carb and I was getting 4.5 P.S.I. while it was cranking and up until it died.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 10, 2008, 4:54 PM
Post #17 of 21
(1565 views)
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Ok: Choke seems to work but fuel doesn't seem to get thru. May have air as a problem now. Looen line at carb and let air out till fuel appears perhaps (careful of course and let spilled fuel dry out completely and do that with it cold only if you do at all) or somehow keep engine running with like starting fluid or even WD-40 should work ( like just spray and hold throttle as needed or a while) till it can idle and stabilize even if lousy for now it would really help to have it at least stay running.
That fuel pressure is fine for now - I don't need specs as that's enough for it to run ok with a carb.
It's possible that something is clogged right at the carb. Keep things clean and with line removed you could spray carb cleaner right in the fuel inlet - keep it clean trying this!
T
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 13, 2008, 10:46 PM
Post #18 of 21
(1547 views)
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I tried taking the line off of the car, and cranked it over until fuel came out, I then sprayed cleaner into the fuel inlet, then I took an extra piece of hose and a valve stem that I got from the local tire shop and hooked up my 12 volt air compressor to the fuel inlet and pumped air into it. I then cranked the engine over to make sure the fuel still came out of the supply line from the fuel pump, then I hooked the line back up to the fuel inlet of the carb, I then sprayed WD-40 into the carb while my brother was cranking it over. Until it fired and then I kept spraying long enough until I thought the fuel had enough time to fill up the float bowl. Well I quit spraying and it ran for 10 seconds then died. Once the car died I looked down the carb and pulled the throttle linkage and no fuel sprayed out.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 14, 2008, 4:50 AM
Post #19 of 21
(1543 views)
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Seems like something at the needle valve isn't cooperating. Perhaps try some PowerBlaster in there in hopes that it's something that can disolve or this may require a carb kit or replacement. Are you up to a "rebuild" which is a bit overstated as it's mostly clean, adjust and just a few new parts - not like a whole new carb again,
T
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dustykc2007
User
Feb 17, 2008, 12:35 AM
Post #20 of 21
(1527 views)
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OK I hope you was referring to PB Blaster because that is what I used and still no luck. Might sound kind of steep but I can get a reman carb with all new electrical and internal parts for $250.99 from a local parts house, and a carb kit for 25 bucks,I'm not sure if it would come with a new float or not. Then I would just have to find someone to rebuild it.I'm sure that wouldn't be hard to do, maybe a local machine shop could do it or would know of some place to take it to.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 17, 2008, 2:09 AM
Post #21 of 21
(1525 views)
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The kits I knew of would have gaskets and a needle valve. Ecectrics, vacuum pulloffs, choke heater or spring parts not included. "Rebuiding" is overstated and with just the kits is really a way to dismantle it and clean it all out, check and adjust things as needed on a bench with final adjustment made on the car.
It takes a bunch of special tool to make adjustment on some/most and it's difficult to get them perfect for a car without installing and testing it then - and at that the rest of the engine must be of some known condition of running well. Many carbs of the day weren't so great when brand new and needed final adjustments. Many rebuids out of a box lack something also.
Oil sludge from crankcase, gelled fuel junk and that will disolve in carb cleaner. Shards of metal or rust must be blown out or chased out with fine wire. Some folks have used that white teflon tape to seal threads and the smalles shred will mess them up and won't disolve for love nor money - you need to find and remove it. Floats can get heavey and the settings will be off so those need to be weighed or adjusted with fuel in the bowl. I still own plenty of carbs, now decades old and for any storage they last ages if run dry of fuel when not in use.
It's an art without much demand anymore to do these right. If you find someone who is savy to the quirks of the things you'll do fine. They did work in engines for generations but became too fussy to be practical for the masses of vehicles made and strict emissions that are easier to control with injection. See who you can find that you think can handle it. Hate to be age prejudiced but a tech with some gray hair might be your best bet! Your call,
T
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