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Removed something I should not have.
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Glennkos
Novice
Feb 24, 2012, 10:49 PM
Post #1 of 15
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Removed something I should not have.
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Hi there,
I have a '93 Toyota FZJ80. It use to run petrol/gas but previous owners took the gas system out (well most of it). There was still a lot of messy wiring hanging around in the engine bay and behind the dash. So... I decided I wanted it gone, somehow in the process I have disabled the vehicle from starting.
The engine turns over but it just isn't firing. What have I removed that I should not have? The wiring I took out was not factory, but I guess with the gas instal they have tapped into the factory loom.
Any suggestions on where to go from here would be great thanks.
(This post was edited by Glennkos on Feb 24, 2012, 10:50 PM)
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Double J
Veteran
/ Moderator
Feb 24, 2012, 11:49 PM
Post #2 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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Hard to say without seeing it...
Guess you'll need to go over every part that you touched and see if you can spot anything disturbed,disconnnected.
I know you probably already know that...
Not much we can offer i guess without seeing it...
I'm confused...it had a gas engine and that was removed? wasnt originally a gas engine? Converted back to ?
A maybe?...check all the fuses?
What type of engine is in it now?
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Glennkos
Novice
Feb 24, 2012, 11:58 PM
Post #3 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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Woop sorry forgot that some countries say gas for gasoline.. I meant it was dual fuel: gasoline and LPG. The LPG system had been removed (aside from the stuff I just yanked out):P sorry.
Fuses I checked.
I am not familiar with LPG systems, so I thought maybe someone could school me in what the installer may have 'tapped' into, for example anything in particular of the ignition system or perhaps the fuel delivery system?
If I am still not clear (quite possible) just let me know and I can try clarify what I am after and what it is I have done.
Thanks :)
EDIT: this may be of use, I took out an impco commander air/fuel controller, a carmtrol injection start control and a carmtrol solid state lpg safety cut out. I originally thought the left overs of the lpg system were left in because of a half assed removal, maybe they were left in because they still served some purpose...
(This post was edited by Glennkos on Feb 25, 2012, 12:04 AM)
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Double J
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Feb 25, 2012, 1:25 AM
Post #4 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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OK,well that makes sense now....
Here in the States we say gas for gasoline thats what threw me off...
Gotta stop and get 'gas' ....step on the 'gas'..that pizza gave me 'gas'...wait, thats not the same....
Sorry,i'm not familiar with LPG setups at all....
But if you can hang in there until some of the others come online later this AM,maybe they can assist you.
Guess you need to start at square one and find out what s missing......
One of the mods here,Hammer Time, put the following together that may be of assistance...
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
Let us know
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Feb 25, 2012, 8:27 AM
Post #5 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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probably wouldn't hurt to keep the LP system on it. Especially when gas goes up to $10 a gallon.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Feb 25, 2012, 8:27 AM)
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re-tired
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Feb 25, 2012, 1:48 PM
Post #6 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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You could try to re-install what you took out. OR you could get a salvage yard wiring harness from a unmodified car.
LIFE'S SHORT GO FISH
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nickwarner
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Feb 25, 2012, 3:59 PM
Post #7 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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If you know anyone that works on forklifts, they might come in handy. Lot of them run on LP and someone handy with that would notice something wrong. When you took things out, did you chop them out or unbolt and unhook wiring at the connectors? Re-tired is definately on a good idea if you can get a harness from one that wasn't set up like this with LP. But it must be the exact year and such as connectors differ a lot in just a few model years.
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Glennkos
Novice
Feb 26, 2012, 11:58 PM
Post #8 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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Thanks for the replies all.
I do not think i can get a hold of an engine wiring loom at this time.
I have spark at the dizzy, so it cannot be ignition.
I guess it's fuel, figuring it was duel fuel before, obviously you would have needed to disable the gasoline somewhere, but where?
Help me brainstorm please!!! I'm probably going to check the pump is turning on next, but not entirely sure how that will serve me :P Hmm might check power at injectors too... But I do not have a noid light... Can I throw a multi meter over it and crank the engine?
Cheers
EDIT: I cannot reinstall what I took out, it was a mess to start with and is even worse now :(
(This post was edited by Glennkos on Feb 27, 2012, 12:22 AM)
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nickwarner
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Feb 27, 2012, 7:15 PM
Post #9 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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A multimeter won't capture the injector pulse. It happens too quickly. A noid light will. For the sake of us in US that are reading this, what is a dizzy? The fuel pump turning on means nothing without a fuel pressure reading. Let us know what you find. Your vehicle isn't something we deal with over here, especially in that configuration so we need all the info possible. On this side of the pond we don't even have the service lit for it.
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Glennkos
Novice
Feb 27, 2012, 11:50 PM
Post #10 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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A dizzy is a distributor, I know of a few people with these vehicles in the states (maybe not on duel fuel though).
Well my brainstorming has me thinking I have disabled the fuel pump relay when I took out the switch to swap between petrol (petroleum or gas/gasoline as you folk call it) and LPG.
It's the only thing that makes sense to me. Sooo I have to check my FSM for the fuel pump relay circuit and see what is amiss.
Cheers.
EDIT: Well looking at the fuel pump system circuit is well.. daunting. I may have to get actual auto electrician onto this, but would love to avoid it :(
I've uploaded a scan of the circuit here: http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/Glennkos/002.jpg
My guess is I have somehow opened up the circuit opening relay circuit 
(This post was edited by Glennkos on Feb 28, 2012, 2:05 AM)
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Glennkos
Novice
Feb 29, 2012, 2:51 AM
Post #11 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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Hey, just an update:
Issue is resolved, found where they tapped into the fuel pump circuit and soldered in some new wire.
All good now :) Thanks.
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nickwarner
Veteran
/ Moderator
Feb 29, 2012, 4:32 AM
Post #12 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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Congrats on getting it going and thanks for posting the fix.
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techforfree
User
Mar 7, 2012, 7:40 PM
Post #14 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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1st things 1st...are you getting spark ? pull off a plugwire and have someone crank itwhile you put a screwdriver in the removed plugwire and holding it about a 1/4 inch from a good ground,should have a nice blue spark......good luck
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 7, 2012, 7:43 PM
Post #15 of 15
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Re: Removed something I should not have.
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Techforfree,
Did you even read this. The issue is resolved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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