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Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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BooBoo7750
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Jun 12, 2015, 9:15 PM
Post #1 of 17
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Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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Hi friends!
I've got a '99 mustang, V6, stick that has been sitting for several years without being started, garage kept. The vehicle was in great running condition before it was parked even with it having 200,000 miles. We try to take really great care of all our cars.
However, since it has not been driven in so long I'm having trouble getting it started. At first I thought it was simply a matter of replacing the fuel pump because when I turn the key to the "on" position I don't hear that click or hum of the fuel pump turning on before ignition. So I go to a junkyard, get a used replacement and put the fuel pump in, change the fuel filter as well and put in about 3-4 gallons of gas but still no success. The starter is working but it won't catch. From what I can tell, there is no fuel getting to the engine and the fuel pump still isn't clicking or humming when "on."
Now, I recognize that the junkyard fuel pump could be bad, but assuming it's a good replacement why wouldn't the pump be getting juice?
I know there is a switch that is triggered by a collision to cut off the fuel pump to keep from starting a fire, however, I've checked this switch and it's good and in the correct position.
This car is my first and it would mean more than a lot of people could imagine to get it running again. I would be greatly appreciative of any help that anyone could provide.
Thanks!
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 12, 2015, 10:55 PM
Post #2 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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Measure twice, cut once friend or you are wasting effort and money. No telling first fuel pump was bad yet is there?
What do you mean starter works but won't catch? Does it turn the engine? If not but hums away that's a drive in it stuck or failed. You can test or lube that with starter out if needed. If it does and engine OK at all it would start and quit with priming it without a fuel tank or pump at all. I smell you description is misleading me? Bet it does crank engine.
In time on an long stored (just parked) car with already enough miles lifters would collapse so wouldn't be so easy from that or an assortment of problems.
If no power getting to fuel pump and you don't have so much as a test light and want to continue get one. Under $10 bucks.
Any but somehow more with Fords sometimes. Fuel pump relay I think under hood and marked is stuck from sitting so long and others may be as well. Many will work again if on this type you take them out and just tap on them prongs up and swap for the one for A/C as I think most are the same part # - check though. New are not expensive at a dealer strangely!
First move is to prime it to run without destroying starter to build up oil pressure.
Once it's run for a while priming it then chase down all fuel delivery possibilities including impossibly clogged bad old fuel remaining from bad used parts, lousy electrical connections from sitting. It ran to where it was parked so unless critters chewed up wiring (happens a lot) it's a hunt for where and what relays and connections just don't work from time. If you stumble on one failed toss that for new even if you get one to work.
Other caution: If/when you get it to run watch out for brakes! You may have no ability to even hold still with them depending on what sitting around might have done. Expect a series of surprises once drivable to surface for some time till you can get some miles on it.
These type finds for cars are usually a money pit of nickel dime stuff first and high chances of a problem at those miles for something nasty expensive to show up. Maybe not?
Good luck. Will try to help but do watch how much you spend as it might not be worth it IMO.
Used Parts: Get stuff yourself if a place does allow that near you. Look for fresh wrecks from sides or rear that were clearly running when totaled out........
T
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BooBoo7750
Novice
Jun 12, 2015, 11:28 PM
Post #3 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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Hey Mr. Greenleaf,
I appreciate the insight. Yes, the motor cranks but no fuel is being delivered to the motor. I will attempt priming it to see if it will run but I'm fairly certain it will.
I've heard of critters destroying parked cars but given the garage it's been sitting in its very unlikely that will be an issue. I will begin testing relays and hope to find luck there, starting with the fuel pump driver module.
I greatly appreciate the heads up about the brakes. My main goal is simply to get the engine running again and slowly get it back to driving conditions.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Jun 13, 2015, 3:48 AM
Post #4 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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BTW - This should have a port on fuel rail to check for fuel pressure with about a tire valve cap on it. Might have fuel pressure and another reason it doesn't deliver it? IDK how sure you are you hear the fuel pump prime up? They quit after a couple seconds.
Fuel pressure if fuel is there is going to have to checked at some point if it wont stay running on it's own,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2015, 5:02 AM
Post #5 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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All your diagnosis seems to be nothing but a chain of assumptions. You haven't tested anything at all and you are convinced the fuel pump isn't getting power.
You need to start with some basic testing to find out what is really going on.
All "crank, no start" conditions are approached in the same way. Every engine requires certain functions to be able to run. Some of these functions rely on specific components to work and some components are part of more than one function so it is important to see the whole picture to be able to conclude anything about what may have failed. Also, these functions can ONLY be tested during the failure. Any other time and they will simply test good because the problem isn't present at the moment.
If you approach this in any other way, you are merely guessing and that only serves to replace unnecessary parts and wastes money.
Every engine requires spark, fuel and compression to run. That's what we have to look for.
These are the basics that need to be tested and will give us the info required to isolate a cause.
1) Test for spark at the plug end of the wire using a spark tester. If none found, check for power supply on the + terminal of the coil with the key on.
2) Test for injector pulse using a small bulb called a noid light. If none found, check for power supply at one side of the injector with the key on.
3) Use a fuel pressure gauge to test for correct fuel pressure, also noticing if the pressure holds when key is shut off.
4) If all of these things check good, then you would need to do a complete compression test.
Once you have determined which of these functions has dropped out,
you will know which system is having the problem.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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BooBoo7750
Novice
Jun 13, 2015, 9:03 AM
Post #7 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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I tested the fuel rail after I put the pump in and zero pressure.
Fuel tank was clean when I drained out the old gas that had been sitting in it. Put in 4-5 gallons of high test to attempt restart.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2015, 9:45 AM
Post #8 of 17
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Now you need to check for power and ground back at the pump while someone is cranking the engine. Did you test the salvage yard pump before you put it in. I'll be honest. One thing that you should never get from a salvage yard is a fuel pump.
Why did the vehicle sit for so long?
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2015, 10:37 AM
Post #9 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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BooBoo - You need to try some the things suggested - it isn't going to happen by itself. Junkyard part especially fuel related I wouldn't go for or at least test it. Know you didn't and didn't test the old one either so you're wasting time and bucks.
Used is great for tons of stuff, not that. Where I am they don't leave tanks in junked vehicles or wheels on them nor batteries and so on then they go out to the yard inventoried as to what's OK to a point.
Never went for a used tank or pump ever and don't know where the places would keep them all or how? Guess is safely drained, fire proofed and squished right away?
We haven't even mentioned spark yet. Fuel or lack of already said, prime it. If that reacts or even runs for a second or two you can forget spark and compression and keep finding what's missing fuel available. So far seems it gets zero power so test as DS just suggested. If definite power and ground gets there and nothing that one is not good. If not go upstream for where it's lost,
T
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2015, 12:42 PM
Post #10 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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Has anyone checked the Inertia switch?
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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BooBoo7750
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Jun 13, 2015, 1:21 PM
Post #11 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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Hey guys,
The inertia switch is in the correct position. I'm going to prime it this evening and start there then as y'all said work my way back through the electrical components.
It's been sitting for so long at my parents house because I used to live in another state and my house there didn't have a garage to keep it in. Dad was driving it for awhile but once he got a new vehicle he parked it and had no interest in driving it as it does need a new driver seat, it's a little wore out.
I've just taken an interest to get it restarted because I've had to move back in to take care of dad because he came down with leukemia last year and I've got a ton of time on my hands. Unfortunately, not a ton of money hence trying to find ways to cheaply get it restarted and then slowly piece the right, more costly pieces on as I can.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 13, 2015, 2:28 PM
Post #12 of 17
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Check "inertia" switch for continuity or power in + power out. It's just a resettable shut off and position may not mean diddle.
Nice if you had a spark tester on it when cranking with a helper or trigger it (get a helper) to watch spark. Any IMO forget that for now. It would at least phart with priming or should. If not compression is missing IMO from lifters with no pressure (take lots of time for that) and 9.99% just a couple good strong revs from cranking is enough. If nothing test a couple.
It ran when parked and cranks. Super high odds it will at least buck and phart and deal with bad fuel issues or already beat up is power getting to the fuel pump at all?
When confused enough go thru the whole test HT posted back a couple for what is missing. Sat so long I'm not sure it will show real good info until it's forced to run for a few seconds or more.
Ahead of the game: Take a hard look at the driver' seat and passengers. Just maybe if common style/color you can find an unworn passenger's one and swap mechanisms to make it totally right?
T
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BooBoo7750
Novice
Jun 14, 2015, 4:12 PM
Post #13 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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Quick update,
I got some starting fluid and gave it a quick squirt. It ran for just a couple seconds so it's definitely getting spark.
I took a circuit tester and tested the Fuel Pump Driver Module, the inertia switch and the plug that sits directly behind the back bumper that leads to the fuel pump plug; all of these showed current. I assume that means that electricity is getting to the pump but that the junkyard pump itself is just bad.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 14, 2015, 9:00 PM
Post #14 of 17
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Good so far - engine has spark and enough compression for now so done with those
and power goes thru inertia switch but you don't know if it makes it on to pump so that's next.
Do you have the first pump? Test it off car. Not sure how close you can get to plug with each car to power pump in car for a test should be done first to see that it get power and ground at plug then on to pump.
Plain plug connections must be good. Must both look good and test good. Test light can test for power and ground (use that back powered) works.
DVOMs will be handy at some point. Best will be to just get this to stay running and get new fuel thru, drive and see more of what it may need.
Coming events when it does, all checks and oil changes, check belt, brakes - the whole game. Don't forget tire pressure and spare pressure too on long list,
T
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BooBoo7750
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Jun 14, 2015, 9:11 PM
Post #15 of 17
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Re: Mustang won't wake from deep hibernation
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No, silly me threw the first one away immediately after I put the "new" one in. I could drop the tank again and give it a shot but I think I'm just going to wait and get an actually new pump and put it in.
Coming events when it does, all checks and oil changes, check belt, brakes - the whole game. Don't forget tire pressure and spare pressure too on long list,
And yeah, I hope to get to all those checks/changes immediately after the new pump goes in. Another huge blow to all this is I'm afraid the tires have flatspotted from staying in one place for so long. They were brand new Michelin's when parked.
Oh well, running first and I can worry about the rest from there.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
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Jun 14, 2015, 10:05 PM
Post #16 of 17
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Just some comments for now - getting tires, late for the moment for me.
Tires will be fine. I drive (don't tell anyone Michelin's never wear out (well 80K or more anyway) tires released in 1991) given to me for working at a tire place when they were in trouble with work overload. They are still fine and less than 1/2 worn all those years later! Flat spots on tires are if NYLON was the product of the belts, not used in anything but trailer tires I think now. Sidewalls do crack and leak if in sun mostly. It repaired from leaks steel belts do separate if moist - you'll know fast if so and should see the issue or feel it.
Suggestion: Don't toss out parts till new/replacements are working perfectly. You may have wrong stuff and now can't match things up if nothing else or things to compare. You also didn't know it was bad. Worse is some things you need from an old part for the new one all depends what you are doing new used or rebuilt you don't know yet till it's done.
I'm on the other end of the mess. Never throw anything out till you are suffocating in parts, parts of parts, wiring pig-tails and so on like a total nut - OK to agree on that in good humor.
Back to work,
T
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