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bschanz
User
Apr 2, 2007, 10:09 AM
Post #1 of 12
(2435 views)
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Hello all... Stumbled across this forum while looking for engine diagnosis advice... Became a member!! Hope someone here can help.
My dilemma... My headache... I have a 1998 Olds Cutlass w/ a 3.1L v-6. Recently, (november) i replaced the engine with a rebuilt longblock. Last week, the car started making a ticking noise. It increases in volume and speed as the rpms increase. My initial thought is that it may be a stuck lifter, but as the car warms, the oil circulates it should quiet itself and it does not. I am now thinking that a collapsed lifter may be the suspect... All I would like to do is get the car to stop making this noise so I can trade it in for something newer for my fiance.. I am not a dummy under the hood, but I am no expert. I will be breaking out the stethascope(sp?) tonight after work to help me better determine what this may be. Your advice is appreciated. Thank you all in advance!!
Ben
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steve01832
Veteran
Apr 3, 2007, 3:42 AM
Post #2 of 12
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If all you want is the noise gone, change the oil and filter and put in 1 quart of mystery oil in place of 1 quart of motor oil. The noise should go away if it is internal. Yes, use the stethoscope and post back when you can narrow the location down.
Steve
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bschanz
User
Apr 3, 2007, 6:55 AM
Post #3 of 12
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Steve,
I had that thought of the MM too!! I am pretty tied up w/ work as of late, but this week, I will listen around and see where it is coming from. Without the Steth, it sounds like it is coming from the rear bank, but... It could be resonating. I'll get the steth on it in the next few days and see what I can tell you! Thanks for the tip, and also, for any future advice.
Ben
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bschanz
User
Apr 3, 2007, 6:15 PM
Post #4 of 12
(2427 views)
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cylinders one or three. it is the rear bank, near the alternator or the next cylinder over. It is much more pronounced there, but I cannot distinguish which cylinder has the problem. I have not tried the MM and oil change yet, but that will take place this weekend. Will advise when I do. The noise is a click, increasing with throttle, valves or lifters i imagine. the steth is a GREAT tool!!
Ben
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 4, 2007, 9:35 AM
Post #5 of 12
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Just a thought....... Could this be loose plugs? Most 3.1s are a bear to get at rear ones. Some you need to tilt the engine (in neutral) with a tool that holds it for access, T
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bschanz
User
Apr 4, 2007, 9:42 AM
Post #6 of 12
(2418 views)
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plugs were installed when the engine was on a stand. i am confident that they are in snug. however, to satisfy my curiosity, i will check it when I get home. Cylinders 1-3 are not the most difficult to reach. the coil pack hampers one's ability to reach the 5th cylinder's plug though. It can be reached w/o unbolting the coil, but my arms are not that tiny!! haha. I'll check it and let you know. They can't back out on their own can they?
ben
Ben
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 4, 2007, 10:28 AM
Post #7 of 12
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If that was it you would see it moving back and forth a bit. They would be quiet if only finger tight and should not be overtightened as they can get stuck real bad, T
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bschanz
User
Apr 9, 2007, 9:05 AM
Post #8 of 12
(2397 views)
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steve,
Okay, I have stethescoped the engine and narrowed the tick to cyliders one or three. I did an oil/filter change saturday, replaced one qt of oil with marvel mystery oil and ran it for about 20 minutes on idle to circulate and the noise is still there. It may have quieted down a touch, but nothing significant. Now, I am thinking that I need to pull that intake off and expose the lifters and valve train to see what is going on down there. I can do it, I just wanted to avoid it. I have a set of gently used Eaton lifters that I pulled out of the old motor that I junked. (only about 5k for miles on them.). Do you think that I could re-use one or more of these if it is truly a bad lifter?? I would like to keep my expenses down because this car has cost me several thousands of dollars over the last few years.. I think this problem stems from not priming the new engine properly when we installed it. Awefully frustrating and expensive mistake.. Thanks in advance for your help! Tom if you see this, give me your take on it as well.
Ben
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Apr 9, 2007, 10:29 AM
Post #9 of 12
(2394 views)
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Is it easy enough to get valve cover off to suspect cylinders? I would try that first and check lash/gap at rocker arm of suspect cylinders at TDC. There shouldn't be anything noticeable.
If you can run this engine with valve cover off without getting showered with oil - some do some don't - then you can slip a feeler gauge under rocker and if it shuts up there's too much lash.
Can't speak for every method of valve adjustment or any year by year changes but they probably are adjustable by either the nut in middle of rocker, double nuts that lock adjustment, or they could be solely reliant on the lifter. If the cam lobes or lifter can't or don't do their thing you get a tick. If adjustable just go a smidge at a time - like 1/4 turn till quiet and do one more 1/4 turn. Count the turns so you can always go back to where you started.
With a rebuilt you really don't know what has been replaced or left if thought good or perhaps initial adj was off.
If solely reliant on the lifter your fairly new ones may do the trick but it's hard to say.
If a lifter is sticking so soon there must be a lubrication problem. If the MMoil really helped give it some time and it still may get better.
This is guessing that the lifters are the source of the tick to begin with. Of course there's a chance it's not them.
Sorry that I don't have a pic of the exact set up for this car. Someone here might or just tell me what's there. I'm watching this so let's see what we can do, T
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bschanz
User
Apr 9, 2007, 11:03 AM
Post #10 of 12
(2393 views)
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we pulled the rear valve cover off and turned it over a few times to see if the rockers were loose. They are all tightend to spec. ( what a mess that was ). The rockers, I think are NOT adjustable. There is one bolt that runs through it and secures it to the head. I do not think that we can adjust the rockers up and down. I am probably wrong though. We'll take another look this weekend because we only checked tightness, not gap at TDC.
I really cannot honestly say if the MM worked. You know how it gets when you listen to something so long it begins to seem like it is not as loud??? It seemed to quiet down a little, but maybe it's just me. I will run it tonight and have someone else listen too so I can determine if I am crazy or not.
This engine, BTW is a rebuilt by ATK and allegedly has all new internals. There is a warranty and I need to get my warranty papers out and take a peek at them. Since I installed it myself with the help of a tech in my garage, instead of taking it to a shop and paying shop labor rates, I have limited warranty rights. I need to research it and see what they will do for me before I get up to my elbows in grease and engine parts. If this was a quick and easy fix, I would have done it and not cared, since it is a little more involved than I hoped for, I may have to break out the big guns and go after a warranty claim. I'll let you know how things pan out.
Ben
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bschanz
User
Apr 9, 2007, 1:23 PM
Post #11 of 12
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This is the reply of a warranty CSR at ATK. It confirms my suspicion of a non-adjustable valve train. He recommends checking the torque of the rockers, which we have done. I will be getting me a warranty claim number tomorrow morning when I have the necessary info available. Hopefully, I'll get lucky and they will pony up for shop labor hours for the repair. Wish me luck!!
This engine (part# dch8) has a non-adjustable valve train.I would confirm
the rockers are torque down.I know you had to loosen them to install the
intake manifold gasket.If they are torque correctly and you still have a
problem,L suggest you call to establish a claim number.
_ben
Ben
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bschanz
User
May 8, 2007, 8:13 AM
Post #12 of 12
(2318 views)
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Re: Engine Tick
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Tom/Steve;
Hey guys, I got that intake off and cylinder 3 had a collapsed lifter. Atk is has send me new ones and I am waiting on the gasket kits to arrive so I can start putting her back together. Thanks for all the help and advice. You guys were priceless!!
Ben
Ben
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