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bigbear
User
Mar 16, 2012, 6:00 PM
Post #1 of 30
(3015 views)
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A Little Help Please
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Hi Carjunkys, and thanks in advance.
Here's the run down.
95'
Pontiac
Grand Am SE 4-door
3.1 (3100) V6
170,000
Front wheel drive
Here's what happened.
Car stalled (in the middle of nowhere) I stop, check it out.
Coolant bottle was empty, Oil level VERY HIGH (mud). Got a blown gasket !
I let cool, then drove it a couple miles back to the main road. Got a tow from there home.
Took it apart, found blown gasket between intake(lower) manifold and rear head. Took heads off too.
(Found some stuff on the net about this gasket was a bad design and there was a class action lawsuit sometime ago.)
Took the heads to a machine shop, they checked both for cracks, no cracks. They found 3 bad valves, 2 exhaust and 1 intake, all on the rear head. They replaced 2 exhaust and repaired the intake valve. ground and seated the 3 valves they worked on.
They resurfaced heads.
I put it back together with new gaskets throughout.
Car runs (barely) on three cylinders or so, with gas pedal almost all the way down. Valves seem loud.
Spark plug wires are in correct order, electrical plugs are all conneted, and all hoses. Things were torqued down right.
There's the story, I'm not sure what to do now ?!
(This post was edited by bigbear on Mar 28, 2012, 7:28 AM)
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bigbear
User
Mar 16, 2012, 6:07 PM
Post #2 of 30
(3008 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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One more thing, I broke the wire on the temp sensor, and soldered it back on.
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samg.
User
Mar 17, 2012, 10:26 AM
Post #3 of 30
(2959 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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I would be re-checking your work.
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 17, 2012, 10:52 AM
Post #4 of 30
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Yes - recheck your work. Just what temp sensor had the broken wire? Coolant temp sensor if that broke off right at the plug may not be sending good info and could be causing it to run like crap. If in question they aren't expensive and do solder and shrink wrap in a new one as it should come with a new pigtail.
Other: Is compression ok now?
T
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bigbear
User
Mar 17, 2012, 2:27 PM
Post #5 of 30
(2943 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Yep, coolant temp sensor. Mounted in the rear head.
THANKS guys.
I'll buy a new sensor, and rent a compression gauge.
My coworkers think it could be spark plugs, I'll replace those too, the plugs are kinda old.
It'll be Monday when I get a chance to do that stuff, windy and snowing right now, I'm working in the driveway, no garage.
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bigbear
User
Mar 17, 2012, 2:46 PM
Post #6 of 30
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Re: A Little Help Please
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It's the engine temp sensor not coolant temp sensor.
My Haynes repair manual does not show the engine temp sensor. The pictures of the parts on Napa's website tipped me off. The coolant sensor has a female plug with no wire between the sensor and the connector whereas the engine temp sensor has a pig-tail. Like the one I broke.
I'm thinking maybe it got cooked when I soldered it, soldering iron won't get it hot enough for the solder to stick, so I had to use a soldering torch. The wire broke off at the base, quite close to the sensor itself.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 17, 2012, 2:50 PM
Post #7 of 30
(2933 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Did you install the push rods in the correct position? The exhaust are longer than the intake. You get them swapped and you'll bend rods or even spin a cam lobe.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 17, 2012, 2:52 PM
Post #9 of 30
(2929 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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It's the engine temp sensor not coolant temp sensor
They are one in the same
If it's for the dash gauge and not the computer, it's called a temp gauge sender.
The sender is one wire and is in the back head and the sensor is 2 wire and on the driver's side of the engine
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
(This post was edited by Hammer Time on Mar 17, 2012, 2:55 PM)
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Tom Greenleaf
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 17, 2012, 2:52 PM
Post #10 of 30
(2925 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Make sure you are getting the CTS not one for the gauge on dash. Of course it will probably be in a difficult spot but they just screw in like a spark plug. With plugs - go OE only - no fancy tricky ones as they don't work well,
T
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bigbear
User
Mar 17, 2012, 2:57 PM
Post #11 of 30
(2916 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Engine Temp Sensor 1995 Pontiac Grand Am
Broke right were the wire ends in the crimp fitting.
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 17, 2012, 2:59 PM
Post #12 of 30
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Does it have oil pressure? Those can snap a cam if you had coolant leaking under the intake the whole time. If it snaps a cam, depending on where it breaks, the engine will run bad and the oil pump doesn't get driven.
Well, if the rods are in the right position, its compression time as Tom recommended. It's not uncommon to get plug wires switched around on those too.
Plus if it was overheating and you drove it to the point the engine shut off, you could have burnt the rings up. Even if you were to get it running good, the engine bearings are probably wasted from coolant contamination.
You should have put a long block in it.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
(This post was edited by Discretesignals on Mar 17, 2012, 3:10 PM)
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bigbear
User
Mar 17, 2012, 3:09 PM
Post #13 of 30
(2904 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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The gasket blew all at once, it had not been losing coolant prior to that.
I took the valve covers off and rotated the motor with a ratchet, all the valves seem to be moving fine
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bigbear
User
Mar 17, 2012, 3:11 PM
Post #14 of 30
(2899 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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oil is making it up to the valves. No oil warning light.
(This post was edited by bigbear on Mar 17, 2012, 3:15 PM)
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Discretesignals
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 17, 2012, 3:29 PM
Post #15 of 30
(2892 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Check your plug wire order. Sometimes coils are replaced that don't have any numbers on them. Easy to get wires switched.
If that is good, you should run a compression check on the engine to be sure you don't have a mechanical problem. If that checks, your going to have to determine which cylinder(s) are misfiring, so you can diagnose why.
Since we volunteer our time and knowledge, we ask for you to please follow up when a problem is resolved.
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bigbear
User
Mar 17, 2012, 4:24 PM
Post #16 of 30
(2880 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Check your plug wire order. Sometimes coils are replaced that don't have any numbers on them. Easy to get wires switched. If that is good, you should run a compression check on the engine to be sure you don't have a mechanical problem. If that checks, your going to have to determine which cylinder(s) are misfiring, so you can diagnose why. That's what my book shows too, and that's how I have them hooked up, triple checked. Thanks for the diagram though, I've noticed in other threads you guys post great diagrams, better than what is in the repair Manuals. So Monday I'll get the compression test results posted, we'll go from there. |
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bigbear
User
Mar 27, 2012, 7:12 AM
Post #17 of 30
(2823 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Hey guys, I'll get those compression results posted today.
Haven't been able to work on the Grand Am at all, life got in the way.
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bigbear
User
Mar 27, 2012, 2:15 PM
Post #18 of 30
(2809 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Here's the compression test results, not what I was expecting.
Cylinder numbers are the same as the book.
#1 150psi
#2 149psi
#3 0psi, 0psi (wet) with 3ml of 5W30 added to cylinder.
#4 140psi
#5 0psi, 0psi (wet) with 3ml of 5W30 added to cylinder.
#6 140psi
IGN fuse removed, I removed the coil and Evap Can Purge valve, to make work easier on the rear cylinder bank.
Throttle plate blocked open.All plugs removed.
What do you guys think ?? Machine shop missed something ??
(This post was edited by bigbear on Mar 27, 2012, 2:23 PM)
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 27, 2012, 2:52 PM
Post #19 of 30
(2801 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Did you get the pushrods mixed up on those cylinders?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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bigbear
User
Mar 27, 2012, 5:00 PM
Post #20 of 30
(2791 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Pulled the push rods from cylinders #3 & #5. And did compression tests on those cylinders.
I numbered the push rods from left to right, 1&2 push rods from cylinder #1 not removed, 3 & 4 came from cylinder #3, and 5 & 6 came from cylinder #5
#3 push rod, long. #4 & #5 push rods, short. #6 push rod, long.
Push rods where in right, and they're straight.
Had some changes in compression readings after push rods where removed.
#3 now shows 35psi
#5 now shows 120psi
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 27, 2012, 5:03 PM
Post #21 of 30
(2787 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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You probably need to do a leakdown test to get a better idea of where the compression is going.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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bigbear
User
Mar 28, 2012, 7:30 AM
Post #22 of 30
(2761 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Could the valves the shop didn't work on be to blame ??
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bigbear
User
Mar 28, 2012, 7:34 AM
Post #23 of 30
(2760 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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I think the rings are not to blame. Do you guys concur ??
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bigbear
User
Mar 28, 2012, 7:39 AM
Post #24 of 30
(2756 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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Thinking of doing compression tests, replacing one push rod at a time, that should tell us if it's the exhaust or intake valve.
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Mar 28, 2012, 7:40 AM
Post #25 of 30
(2756 views)
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Re: A Little Help Please
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We don't think anything. We advised you to do a leakdown test.
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We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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