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99 Neon several misfire codes
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Mike99
Novice
Dec 6, 2009, 2:57 PM
Post #1 of 19
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99 Neon several misfire codes
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1999 Neon with 2.0 sohc engine. Has p0300, p0301, p0302, p0303 codes and I have my own scanner so I know they are all misfire codes. I have replaced coil, spark plugs, wires, cam sensor, and knock sensor on this vehicle not that long ago (less than 3000 miles). Every so often the codes come back, like today when I erased them. The engine doesn't hesitate, doesn't smoke, doesn't burn oil, doesn't have a mis at any point of drivng it or letting it idle. It does start up hard (cranks more than usuall) when it's cold. I'm getting ready to pull the plugs out again to see if there's anything going on with them. It still gets 26 mpg, so any thoughts? My daughter drives the car daily and I'm working on another one for her, but I need this one to stay running till I get it done. Yes this one has been a pain since day one of buying it over 2 years ago. The last time it acted like this it ended up stahling, not starting back up and I found the bottom of the coil to be cracked, if this is the case again, what could be causing that to happen? Any idea's of why this is a reoccuring problem would be appreciated.
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 6, 2009, 3:11 PM
Post #2 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Hi. I would inspect the coil again to see if it is cracked. If it is, overtightening the bolts could cause it. Believe it or not, faulty plug wires can do it too. I have also uploaded additional info. if the coil proves good.
Steve
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Loren Champlain Sr
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/ Moderator
Dec 6, 2009, 3:11 PM
Post #3 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Mike; You've hit on most everything. No other codes? What about injectors? A poor spray pattern or plugged injectors can cause misfires. If you haven't had it done, you may want to have the injectors cleaned. If you have an ohmmeter, you can check each injectors' resistance to ensure that they are okay, electrically. Injector cleaning should be done about every 40K miles, and is done with a machine (MotorVac). Not the snake oil that you put in the gas.
Just a thought.
Loren
SW Washington
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Mike99
Novice
Dec 6, 2009, 3:27 PM
Post #4 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Thanks Steve and Loren. I'm going to check the coil again. The plug wires were replaced in March with everything else I listed. With the coil getting cracked before, it was the molded plastic underneath, not the outer plastic that mounts it. There aren't and haven't ever been anyother codes. 6 months before the last "tune up" in March, I replaced everything while I was replacing the water pump that decided to leak so I did timing belt, tensioner, and everything else (coil, spark plug wires, spark plugs). So basicly there's been a tune up done 2 times with in a year. Haven't checked the injectors yet seeing as I don't have a gas smell, the engine running rough, fuel out the exaughst, or fuel in the oil. Like I said it doesn't run rough now and has excellent pick up when punching it going down the road. Did that 15 minutes before I posted on here. But I'm gonna check the injectors when I get a chance.
If the coil is cracked (again), could there be a ground wire unhooked somewhere that could be causing a problem? Only need this one to last till some snow melts so I can put exaughst on the other neon (which was supposed to be my beater) so it can go get inspected. Lucky me if I need some parts, I have a spare.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 6, 2009, 3:33 PM
Post #5 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Mike; Have you cleared the original trouble codes? And, still getting the same codes, even though it doesn't run rough?
Loren
SW Washington
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Mike99
Novice
Dec 6, 2009, 4:00 PM
Post #6 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Yep, cleared them with my scanner. The codes don't come back right away, atleast it seems like that. I cleared them today, took it down the road, drove the car like I was 18 again (lol) and the codes haven't shown themselves again. My daughter has to take it tomarrow to do finals (65 miles round trip) so I'm going to play with it some more when she gets back home. The only way I knew the check engine light was on is because she was complaining about another noise that I've narrowed down and doesn't have anything to do with the engine. So I saw the light and went investigating. I've asked her questions about it several times tonight just because she's complained about it before and I'd take the car for weeks at a time without ever hearing or running into what she said the car was doing. Just like the last time when the coil was cracked, she complained about the car stahling, I had it for a month no problems. Drove it everyday to work or whereever I was going, it didn't have a problem till I went to go get parts for my truck (after I called her and told her that I couldn't find anything wrong), it stahled and wouldn't restart. That's why I'm baffled with what could be setting these codes off. Tomarrow after she gets home and the car cools off, I plan on taking out the plugs and checking them, as I do them I'm going to do a compression test on each cylinder and I'm going to inspect the coil.
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 6, 2009, 5:35 PM
Post #7 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Mike, if the codes do come back, before you clear them, can you retrieve and post the freeze frame data for all codes for us?
Steve
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Mike99
Novice
Dec 6, 2009, 5:44 PM
Post #8 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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I have a TP-300CAN scanner. It just does the code and allows you to clear them. The only other info it gives is with the monitor which gives mm, fs, cc, cm, hc, es, sa, ac, os, oh, and egr. I don't have any freeze frames or atleast what I believe your trying to ask for would be the freeze frame of how the engine is running like you would get with the more expensive scanners. I'd like one but way outa my price range for what I do anymore.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 6, 2009, 5:57 PM
Post #9 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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The problem with 'scanners' is that most people think that when the 'scanner' gives them a code for, let's say an oxygen sensor, they believe that it is the sensor that is the problem. All the scanner is telling you is that the PCM has detected a problem with that circuit. Misfire codes are the same. It doesn't tell you if its a primary or secondary, or fuel problem. It is just telling you that that particular cylinder misfired. Even the professional type scanners aren't a crystal ball. Some have troubleshooting capabilities, but none will come up and tell you to "replace the differential pushrod in the carburetor". (that's a joke). I hate seeing people wasting thier hard earned money on these 'toys'. The scanners that we use cost thousands and must be updated each year at a cost of over 1000.00, not to mention the software updates that have the wiring diagrams and flow charts for researching the particular trouble code. That software is over 2500.00 per year. I don't mean to sound negative, but it really is more involving than most people realize.
Loren
SW Washington
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 6, 2009, 5:59 PM
Post #10 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Sometimes you can rent them from taylor rental or maybe even Auto Zone may lend one that can read the datastream. I would like to see freeze frame data when these codes set. Let me check TSB's for this vehicle, it could be something simple like a software update for the PCM.
Steve
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 6, 2009, 6:26 PM
Post #11 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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I found the TSB. The # = 18-47-98. It was dated 12/18/1998. I can't upload the document because it is not in the correct format for this site. If you google the number you should be able to get it to read. Basically, if you have invalid misfire codes, the PCM is faulty.
Steve
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Hammer Time
Ultimate Carjunky
/ Moderator
Dec 6, 2009, 6:43 PM
Post #12 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Here ya go
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We offer help in answering questions, clarifying things or giving advice but we are not a substitute for an on-site inspection by a professional.
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Mike99
Novice
Dec 6, 2009, 6:51 PM
Post #13 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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I use mine (it was relatively cheap) to give me some ideas of what is wrong. Its just like with my sebring jxi. It would shut off when slowing down to stop or going around a corner and it wouldn't do it all the time. I wouldn't get the check engine light on either but I checked it anyways and found that there was a voltage problem with the MAF sensor. I checked the wiring out, replaced the sensor and haven't had a problem since. As far as Advance Auto, half those guys in there have less auto experience than my son. Go there and tell them you want an old ford starter solenoid to use on your snow plow and they'll look at you stupid (I've done it). I've been doing it for 20 years, worked at the little garages and a land rover dealer and left since I didn't feel like dealing with the newer vehicles on a daily basis just because they can become a headache with the same problem being caused by multiple things or even something that would be very rare. I now work on contruction machinery, diesels are so much nicer LOL. But I basicly jusst use the scanner to get me in some type of direction (since it has limited use) and go from there. Just like when the coil went bad in March, the scanner didn't work for me at all, just gave me the misfire codes so then I had to trouble shoot everything else before I just felt like checking the coil. That was a week later with lots of time spent on the car. I was pissed that it was something that stupid.
With the engine at that time not wanting to run, if you go by the book, they have you checking knock, cam and other sensors that allow the ecm to send the juice to the coil. You even check the plug at the coil. So right there is alot of time when it comes down to being the coil.
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steve01832
Veteran
Dec 6, 2009, 6:51 PM
Post #14 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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That's what I wanted to post. You're the man brother!
Steve
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Mike99
Novice
Dec 6, 2009, 6:54 PM
Post #15 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Loren I know what your talkn about with the scanner, we use to use a snapon one that was $10,000 new and the upgrades were several thousand to boot. Those are the nice ones. They let you know how the engine is running and get the important information to quickly diagnois the problem.
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 6, 2009, 7:01 PM
Post #16 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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 Well, I don't know about 'quickly', but it definitely helps. Obviously, you know the difference. Wasn't sure. A lot of the folks that post think that it is a quick, easy test. Have a great week.
Loren
SW Washington
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Mike99
Novice
Dec 6, 2009, 7:06 PM
Post #17 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Well by quickly I mean it's faster than the old way of checking everything lol. I do have another computer laying around here for it somewhere. I don't know about a having a great week, I feel a very bad headache coming on, but thanks for the info and you have one too.
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steve01832
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Dec 6, 2009, 7:08 PM
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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Mike, before you replace the PCM, call your local dealer and see if the reflash update may solve the problem.
Steve
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Loren Champlain Sr
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Dec 6, 2009, 7:09 PM
Post #19 of 19
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Re: 99 Neon several misfire codes
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 Mike; Capt. Morgan's Spiced Rum is very good for headaches.
Loren
SW Washington
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